Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
They basically said they didn’t know what I did
I get that a lot. Its such a specialized job that only a couple of handfuls of people do what I do. I've only ever met one other person who does a similar job.
Modern Job Hunting Tips for the Boomer Generation
- Thread starter Yuwipi Woman
- Start date
I get that a lot. Its such a specialized job that only a couple of handfuls of people do what I do. I've only ever met one other person who does a similar job.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I'd heard of it before, in term of using on websites for SEO purposes, but it hadn't occurred to me that it might be used on CVs. I guess it makes sense, in case they're using automated application filtering software.
It's quite frustrating from a jobseeker's perspective, though, because some recruiters/hiring managers advise people to spend time on the layout of their CV/resume, eg using colourful templates and whatnot, and others advise the exact opposite, stick to straightforward text with no fancy formatting, because those automatic sifting programmes won't be able to read anything too fancy.
I've just created a version of my CV from scratch using a Canva template as a very basic starting point, which I tweaked and tweaked and tweaked, so I had a column for skills and other stuff, a column for work experience, header and box-outs for other key information. And yet I don't even know if a real human will every look at it. Because I had to submit my application through the company's jobs portal, which required candidates to fill in fields to provide work history, plus a field in which to write a covering letter. And it also asked people to upload a CV. I've no idea if they use an automated process to filter applications or whether it will be an intern in the HR department or an experienced recruiter. * shrugs *
Personally, I think they should at least be a bit more transparent, so you know whether you're tailoring an application to 'win' a competition set by an algorithm, or whether you're writing for a human.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Maybe it was a case of they realise that you can do the job, but they can't tell their client 'Yeah, we had a chat, he sounds like he knows what he's doing, he can do the job,' they need something from you in writing that they can cut and paste and forward to their client. Kind of a bit like a maths exam. You can provide the right answer, but they want you to show your workings out. And so the HR folk can't say to their client: 'Yes, this candidate said the answer was 42, which is the correct answer' they need you to spell it all out, show your workings, so they can forward that to the client. Frustrating though. I've pretty much given up on working with recruitment agencies now.I had a wierd teams meeting job interview last week
Well within my scope and CV and the HR goon repeatedly ask what my roles and responsibilities would be on the job if I got it.
I said exactly what is on the job description ie what ever I’m asked to do….
The HR goon insisted I roll through my ideas of what I’d be doing then requested I put it in a list and send it to them as they were “struggling to get them all down and don’t want to miss anything”
After the interview I cut and pasted the job description jiggled around and reworded it and sent it off
Got the job
Anyways I then got bombarded with social media posts about “white wording your CV” and I’m wondering if that was why they were asking for a word document list, they were gonna put it in the clients computer machine and filter it
Never heard of it before
“White fonting”
White fonting - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Guessing it was a thing but programmes are now on to it
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
Yeh I was the youngest person at my last place when I joined at 39, was consultancy tho so people having 20 years of experience in x specific thing was literally the selling point to whoever they were flogging us off to. One person was previously head of department of a top 10 by spend council and they were 3 levels down from the top.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
I’ve completed day two of failing to complete the India visa online process
What an appalling random fuxking mess
What an appalling random fuxking mess
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
Oof, I had heard very Internet based mentions from people who were supposedly Indian who said there was rather a substantial amount of bureaucratic stuff in the country. Is it thay bad? I know the software industry has a lot of people in it there so figured that would be rather well done for that reason. Certainly seems to be a number of people I learned excel off from the area on YouTube for example.
abe11825
Like to take a cement fix
at job going away
don't know what 'the done thing' is there - you're outside the UK, aren't you?
in the UK, age discrimination is (in theory at least) now as illegal as sex / race discrimination (although there's employers out there who haven't really grasped the latter - they have only been in law for 50 or so years now) so you don't put your date of birth / age on things.
Also, a CV (resume?) that goes back (say) 10 years and just summarises previous jobs as a single paragraph, and that lists qualifications without giving the dates you got them, and so on is sometimes recommended.
[...]
It's certainly not standard in the UK to include a photograph on your CV unless perhaps you're an actor or model or something like that.
[...]
Again, no idea how they do it there, but an increasing number of employers now do 'competency based' interviews - rather than a question like 'what would you do if X happened?', it's 'give me an example of a time you did X' - X can either be a specific technical skill, or something fuzzier like 'provided excellent customer service' - these take a bit of getting used to, and like most things can be done well or badly. I've had 'competency' interviews that have been more like a natter down the pub about jobs i've done in the past, with someone who understands the job. I've also had some where it's been some nurk from HR who knows nothing about the job, and is just scoring you on whether you come out with all the buzzwords on their check-list. If you've not met it, it's worth researching 'STAR' (situation - task - action - result), and also remembering that the organisation / team objectives are the situation, the task / action are about you and whatever your role is / was.
In public sector here, the application form can be competency based as well, asking you to explain how you meet the skills / experience etc they are asking for in the job description / person specification. Don't know if that's a thing where you are.
Hope all goes well.
I've heard mixed reviews about the whole age discrimination thing because most employers want to know if you've graduated / have a degree from higher education (you've made it thru college). If you put the year of graduation, that flags the hiring folks on your potential age. Yes, someone in their 50s or 60s (hell, even 80s) can complete coursework and get a degree later in life, but most people past 40 don't think of it that way and say they have received a [name your degree / concentration] from [college / university] in 19XX [if you're older than 45]. However, if you don't put the information down, you're subjected to not getting a call back.
Also, the new(ish) thing is stating whether or not you've got a "medical condition" (Blindness, deafness, diabetes, mental disorders... list goes on: https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/hr-qa/pages/ada-covered-conditions.aspx ). It's from the ADA and is supposed to help those with disabilities, but I think it does more harm than good for someone who may have a problem but need a job - I feel like it's in the same boat as age discrimination. I've said "yes" on a few applications because I've got hearing and vision problems (my eye doctor has even gone so far as telling me exactly what the problem is and why it can't be fixed). I don't get call backs or messages on those. If I say no, I have a 50/50 chance of getting a call, but that's based on how they like my resume. "Prefer not to answer" is the same as saying yes.
Puddy_tat's comment about the last 10 years on a resume is valid. I've heard that from loads of people. It's great if you're staying in your sector / line of work and have had the same job for the last decade or two, but if you've worked various places, it makes it challenging. I've got a degree in communication and worked in radio in the early 2000s. I haven't been in a station since 2010. If I apply for a radio gig now, the company is going to wonder where I've been for the last 13 years. What do you say as a response? You need proof of employment if you've been working, otherwise it looks like you've done nothing all this time. Which is why tailoring a cv/ resume is great, has its advantages, but also has its disadvantages if you haven't been in that part of the workforce lately.
I hate those "what if..." / "tell me about the last time you ...." questions. It puts you on the spot and I usually make shit up. I can't remember the last time that situation happened. It has, but I've also had too many jobs to keep it all straight.
Yes about certain transferable skills - CPR / First Aid, knowing another language. Depending on where you are applying, the posting will straight up say "Bi-Lingual Preferred [or Required]". Sometimes they'll state what language(s) they are looking for. I've had a hiring manager ask me forthright if I know any other language and I had to say no because I don't. I didn't get the job. The safety skills are great in specific rolls too. I worked in hospitality for a while, so having that knowledge is a major bonus.
If you're using Indeed, Monster, Ziprecruiter, or any of the online sites - the negative reviews about the employer will scare you away. Don't not read them, but take it with a grain of salt because everyone is having problems with their job lately, so people want a chance to anonymously gripe about the place. We had an incident a month or so ago, where I currently am. People were going on Indeed and answering the anon questions about the employer, very negatively, and HR got wind of it because we've been on a hiring spree lately. There was a lot of hushed conversations from up top, wondering which employee in house is making the negative reviews. Also, if you have never heard of the company, look for them online. Try to find their website before you apply to a "I totally can do this job" position. If the site doesn't exist or they have more than one page that looks like it hasn't been updated since 1995, that might be a sign to turn around and forget it. In this day and age, sometimes no social media presence for a company is a bad thing. However, the flip side to that is, if they only have a Facebook account and nothing more, that's just weird.
The white fonting has been around for a while, I think. I might have started hearing about it in the mid 2000s because technology was fast growing and people could do a lot of scamming. It wasn't as popular as it is now, though, and I think it has to do with the new AI / Bot reliance these days. People want to outsmart the humans and see how they can trip up the computers.
I've known people that have 1 main job (hovers between full and part time) and have 3 side hustle jobs, including Lyft / Uber / other rideshare stuff / Instacart etc. If you go into that world, really think about it and read the reviews online from people who are living it every day. It has to be worth your wild because it is your car, your gas, everything. There are a lot of risks involved for a minimal reward of making $100+ a day. When I was working in the hotels, the assistant director I had, was doing Uber on the side and he would tell me horror stories about the people he picked up. He learned not to do certain areas on the weekend because of the partiers needing rides (too many throw ups in his car) and airport rides aren't the best if your local won't let you in (at one point airports were banning rideshares because taxi services were complaining). Another guy I worked with, said Door Dash and Uber Eats isn't always the best since you've got to travel from the restaurant with the hot food to a potential house MILES away.. it could get cold by the time it's delivered and people complain. The tips weren't worth it because it'd be a 10 dollar order and the driver got a buck. You use more gas driving around to deliver everything. How far / what type of radius are you willing to drive to do one or two orders? What about picking people up? If you do the latter, you have to keep your car on point. Clean (inside and out), limit your air freshener use because of "allergies"... you're the new taxi service but you don't get the company car to use. I once read an article (I don't know how true it was), saying a woman was doing a Shipt order or something similar. She had spent the better part of 90 minutes in a Whole Foods getting the order together (it was big) and the customer cancelled it without notifying her. She was in contact with the person the whole time because they wanted specific items and the woman wanted to make sure it was okay. Whatever delivery service she was contracted under, didn't do much to help her with any recourse. She spent almost 3 hours overall in the store because she ended up having to put the items back where she found them.
In the end, Yuwipi Woman , it sucks to be out of a job, but good luck in the adventures you're going to try to take (leather making, etc). Hope everyone's advice and comments are helping!
Sasaferrato
We've been together now for twenty years...
This boomer was offered a job the other week. Giving 'flu and Covid jabs. Most of the people who have vaccinated me since this shit began have come out of retirement to do so, if the authorities had any sense they would offer the jobs on a 'tax paid' basis. I wouldn't even have contemplated it due to the tax headaches it would have caused, that and terminal indolence.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
There are ways you can disguise your age on a CV or application form.
Just don't list dates is one example.
Don't list more than the last 10 years if you can.
I have frequently been told that 1) a CV should only be two sides of A4 no longer and 2) that the CV's only purpose is to win you an interview, it doesn't need to be your life story.
However I asked one agent to show me the CV of a person interviewing for a ÂŁ100,000 job and it was about 6 pages long.
Just don't list dates is one example.
Don't list more than the last 10 years if you can.
I have frequently been told that 1) a CV should only be two sides of A4 no longer and 2) that the CV's only purpose is to win you an interview, it doesn't need to be your life story.
However I asked one agent to show me the CV of a person interviewing for a ÂŁ100,000 job and it was about 6 pages long.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Um, no. I'm pretty sure being so specialized is going to work against me. Either they won't understand what I'm talking about, or they'll not see transferable skills they can use.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
being specialised can be a negative if you're applying for something outside that specialism - potential employers will be thinking you're only going for it as a stop-gap until something in your 'proper' field of work comes along.
they might ask you outright, they might just make assumptions.
some employers are more flexible about transferrable skills, and some application processes give you more chance to sell them (in theory, that's where competency based interviews - if done right - can be good, so long as they aren't asking for specific technical skills / experience you haven't got, of course)
InArduisFouette
Active Member
except of course in anything but the most amateurish SME that information goes nowhere near an appointing manager
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
may depend on where.
think in the UK it's now illegal to ask medical questions (other than about any requirements for interview process) at the application stage.
i'm not very trusting of management / HR types, so i tend to default to 'prefer not to say' on anything like that now (yes i know i'm failing the visibility thing, but i value having an income) - although (again in UK law) you can't claim disability discrimination if you haven't disclosed that disability / health condition.
abe11825
Like to take a cement fix
weltweit - A 6 page long CV?? 
Was it just a 10 year employment history with novels of descriptions for each job, or was it their entire life's work typed up in 12 point font? 
Yuwipi Woman - That's the problem with transferable skills. They either work for you (knowing the CPR stuff is great anywhere) or they work against you because they're so specialized (like Puddy Tat mentioned - something outside that field could not be best for what you're applying for).
Puddy_Tat - Regarding the specialized skills and employers thinking it's a stop gap position until something else comes along / making assumptions - When I first moved to Florida, I applied to a local radio station for production work. The hiring manager called me and asked some basic questions, but what tripped him up was my previous location. As all my jobs until that point were in Massachusetts, he saw the abbreviation "MA" and asked me if I were planning on moving back to Michigan (state abbreviation is "MI"). I asked him what he meant, and he said that my resume is full of jobs in Michigan, isn't that where I'm from? I had to tell him I have never been to Michigan in my entire life. I didn't even know anyone from there. He asked why it said "MA" as the state if I'm not from there, and I told him "MA means Massachusetts. I have lived around the Boston area since birth and just recently moved to Florida". He had no comeback. Needless to say, I didn't work at that station.
Oh, and to everyone clicking my link previously posted. I didn't realize it's going to a "please log in" screen. I hadn't had to in order to get the list of disabilities. Hopefully this link works better - Introduction to the Americans with Disabilities Act .
If not, from the ADA site:
I know this is supposed to mean that the employer is equal opportunity and can't discriminate, but it can feel like they are if you click "yes" on the voluntary form. It's illegal to straightforwardly ask about disabilities, but it's weird how places get around it. Just because it might not go to hiring managers (InArduisFouette ) doesn't mean they still can't judge you (IMO). Ageism is still relevant and so is sexism (at least in the place I work.. which is another story in and of itself). It's become one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.
Was it just a 10 year employment history with novels of descriptions for each job, or was it their entire life's work typed up in 12 point font? Yuwipi Woman - That's the problem with transferable skills. They either work for you (knowing the CPR stuff is great anywhere) or they work against you because they're so specialized (like Puddy Tat mentioned - something outside that field could not be best for what you're applying for).
Puddy_Tat - Regarding the specialized skills and employers thinking it's a stop gap position until something else comes along / making assumptions - When I first moved to Florida, I applied to a local radio station for production work. The hiring manager called me and asked some basic questions, but what tripped him up was my previous location. As all my jobs until that point were in Massachusetts, he saw the abbreviation "MA" and asked me if I were planning on moving back to Michigan (state abbreviation is "MI"). I asked him what he meant, and he said that my resume is full of jobs in Michigan, isn't that where I'm from? I had to tell him I have never been to Michigan in my entire life. I didn't even know anyone from there. He asked why it said "MA" as the state if I'm not from there, and I told him "MA means Massachusetts. I have lived around the Boston area since birth and just recently moved to Florida". He had no comeback. Needless to say, I didn't work at that station.
Oh, and to everyone clicking my link previously posted. I didn't realize it's going to a "please log in" screen. I hadn't had to in order to get the list of disabilities. Hopefully this link works better - Introduction to the Americans with Disabilities Act .
If not, from the ADA site:
I know this is supposed to mean that the employer is equal opportunity and can't discriminate, but it can feel like they are if you click "yes" on the voluntary form. It's illegal to straightforwardly ask about disabilities, but it's weird how places get around it. Just because it might not go to hiring managers (InArduisFouette ) doesn't mean they still can't judge you (IMO). Ageism is still relevant and so is sexism (at least in the place I work.. which is another story in and of itself). It's become one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.
Orang Utan
Acceptable through usage
Aren’t CVs dying out though? I haven’t needed to submit one for a long time - it’s all online application forms these days, which is tedious and time-consuming but at least it helps you tailor your responses to the particular job more finely than a CV wouldThere are ways you can disguise your age on a CV or application form.
Just don't list dates is one example.
Don't list more than the last 10 years if you can.
I have frequently been told that 1) a CV should only be two sides of A4 no longer and 2) that the CV's only purpose is to win you an interview, it doesn't need to be your life story.
However I asked one agent to show me the CV of a person interviewing for a ÂŁ100,000 job and it was about 6 pages long.
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
They weren't for me last year at least. There is a tool of some kind for those forms available btw that can pre fill huge amounts of standard info for you. I forgot what it's called tho
Orang Utan
Acceptable through usage
Was this in the private or public sector?
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
Both, public sector and public sector adjacent mostly but also private. Often had rhe forms and cv too, even if it covered a lot of the same material. Cv seemed to be more for the actual hiring people, my appointment at the last place had to be confirmed by a board of investors before i could join after 3 interviews had occured. The form just seemed to be for their onboarding software should I be hired.
a_chap
When the world came apart, where were you?
For the recruitment I've been doing over the last few years, yes the candidate has to complete an on-line application but every candidate also submitted a CV and it's the CV that I base my decision on whether to interview or not.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
Dunno really - I've only applied for one job in the last 18 months, that was public sector so was the 'application form' (online) style.
The last private sector one was CV and online stuff.
Worst of both worlds is the thing where they want a CV uploading, then there's some automated thing that completely buggers up transferring what's in your CV in to some online application form so you have to go through and edit it all...
Nah. I've only had to do an application form once and that was a good twenty years ago. Everything else has been CV only. (Generally private sector.)
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Won't work on most electronic submission systems because they want the start mo the and year plus end month and year for each position. Unable to submit unless you add them in.There are ways you can disguise your age on a CV or application form.
Just don't list dates is one example.
Don't list more than the last 10 years if you can.
I have frequently been told that 1) a CV should only be two sides of A4 no longer and 2) that the CV's only purpose is to win you an interview, it doesn't need to be your life story.
However I asked one agent to show me the CV of a person interviewing for a ÂŁ100,000 job and it was about 6 pages long.
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
I had a lot wanting the day I changed jobs, like anyone records that for decades lol. Last succesful applicationhad 7 years of work history at then 38. Saying I worked in fast food and supermarkets was not relevant to them.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
I did encounter one that wanted exact dates for all jobs since leaving school (and in my case that was 35 or so years ago at the time) - i don't think i bothered with it...
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I recently applied for a job through an online portal that asked you to fill in fields giving your work history, plus fill in a box with your 'covering letter' and upload a CV. I spent ages creating a new CV in Canva and tailoring it for the job, but I fear that a real person will never see it because lots of companies use automated sifting systems nowadays.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
They must not have ever worked fast food jobs. Anyone who has worked in that sector knows how difficult a job it is. You have to not only have customer service skills, you have to be able to organize, multitask, and do it quickly. If I were a hiring manager, I doubt if I would ever hire anyone who never had to work a job like that.
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