The job hunting support thread

[cesare]

Yeah, that's basically the approach I'm taking, each call is giving me a few more names. I'm also recording who I spoke to when, what we discussed etc and then, whatever the outcome I can contact them when I know my fate.

Good luck, everything crossed for you

 

[RubyToogood]

Oh god, it's a STAR interview.

I will be up against half my team for this job, including my best work buddy.

 

[Cloo]

Oh god, it's a STAR interview.

I will be up against half my team for this job, including my best work buddy.

Yeah, I spoke to a peer today re: my position and turns out she is in the same boat, in her division. The layoffs in my division are small - I think only around 6 people - but sounds like there might be more on her side, where the two other roles I'm looking at are, which means there will likely be competition. Luckily not likely to be up against her because she was thinking of taking a sabbatical anyway so reckons she is probably going to roll with it, but she made some good suggestions too. It's been point out that even with some hiring freezes, people might be more open to taking internal people on so they don't have recruitment costs.

 

[newme]

Fucking hell I may have just missed a perfect fit job because of an email error. Applied on the 9th, checked inbox and junk every day as a matter of course with job applications. Nothing, very weird since I was there last year and left on good terms in that exact team but as a consultant.

Logged into their jobs thing today to see if anything else was available. It took my to my applications status and it says "Invited to interview" I've trawled junk again, deleted items the lot. Nothing whatsoever from them. They had an option to send your application back to yourself as a pdf. Tried that, Nothing has turned up.

I've emailed them but they were supposed to be interviewing in January and it's getting a bit late and I'm looking potentially like a no show....

 

[muscovyduck]

Fucking hell I may have just missed a perfect fit job because of an email error. Applied on the 9th, checked inbox and junk every day as a matter of course with job applications. Nothing, very weird since I was there last year and left on good terms in that exact team but as a consultant.

Logged into their jobs thing today to see if anything else was available. It took my to my applications status and it says "Invited to interview" I've trawled junk again, deleted items the lot. Nothing whatsoever from them. They had an option to send your application back to yourself as a pdf. Tried that, Nothing has turned up.

I've emailed them but they were supposed to be interviewing in January and it's getting a bit late and I'm looking potentially like a no show....

Hopefully if its happened to you, it will have happened to everyone else too, and they were in the process of trying to sort it and moved the interview date back or something. I was once on an interview panel for a grad position and we realised after 4 no-shows we'd not told students to put down their personal emails and by the time we emailed them back, they'd been locked out the uni addresses.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Fucking hell I may have just missed a perfect fit job because of an email error. Applied on the 9th, checked inbox and junk every day as a matter of course with job applications. Nothing, very weird since I was there last year and left on good terms in that exact team but as a consultant.

Logged into their jobs thing today to see if anything else was available. It took my to my applications status and it says "Invited to interview" I've trawled junk again, deleted items the lot. Nothing whatsoever from them. They had an option to send your application back to yourself as a pdf. Tried that, Nothing has turned up.

I've emailed them but they were supposed to be interviewing in January and it's getting a bit late and I'm looking potentially like a no show....

Phone them tomorrow!

 

[RubyToogood]

So first interview tomorrow. It's not a recruiter interview, two senior staff will be there. I should be preparing STAR type responses. I feel very out of my depth.

Also a bit traumatised by a recent internal interview where they asked me lots of STAR type questions for which I had no good answers and lost out to someone actually far less experienced than me.

The problem with my current job is that you basically do the work you're given. There's very little scope for taking on projects or doing anything particularly impressive other than doing your job well and getting your work in on time, which doesn't score points at interview.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I should be preparing STAR type responses. I feel very out of my depth.

hope it goes well.

as for the STAR thing - is there a specific list of requirements (either technical experience, more generic experience, behaviours or whatever) for this job?

the STAR questions ought all to be about things they have asked for in the job advert / description / person specification rather than things they pluck out of the air, and depending on circumstances, examples from outside current job or even outside paid employment can be a relevant answer (for example the planning, research and time management involved in doing a part time higher education course might be good examples) - it may be that the skills / experience that make you right for this job aren't all skills etc from your current job.

it can be a 'give us an example of a time you did this specific technical task' or 'a time you managed a project to a deadline' or 'a time you delivered excellent customer service' or something like that (i'm not sure i know - or can remember - what you do, and don't know how related this role is to what you do now)

it's probably worth re-reading and thinking of an example or two for each one, and if you can come up with ones from different situations, this may help show more broad experience. but yes, giving one example of X can advantage people who are good at bullshit and not give a chance to show a broad range of experience.

remember that the situation is about the organisation / team, the task / action is about what you as an individual did to make whatever it was happen.

personally, i'd say not to try and rehearse them word by word - sometimes they will add a twist like 'and what would you do different another time?' or 'and what did you learn from this?'

like most things, it's variable. i've had competency type interviews that have been more like a natter down the pub (although without a pint to hand) about work i've done in the past, and them talking a bit about what they do, and these have often led to job offers. i've had others that have been some HR nurk who doesn't know anything about the job asking very narrow questions and basically ticking off buzzwords against their checklist.

and is this an internal vacancy, or just circumstances that other colleagues are going for it? if it's internal, don't fall in to the trap of thinking you don't have to tell them stuff because they already know you / what you do - unless they specifically tell you otherwise, assume they are scoring everyone - internal or external - on the same basis. and likewise don't be afraid of repeating stuff you've put on the CV and / or application - sometimes that is used for shortlisting, then the score in the interview is the only thing that counts.

 

[RubyToogood]

hope it goes well.

as for the STAR thing - is there a specific list of requirements (either technical experience, more generic experience, behaviours or whatever) for this job?

the STAR questions ought all to be about things they have asked for in the job advert / description / person specification rather than things they pluck out of the air, and depending on circumstances, examples from outside current job or even outside paid employment can be a relevant answer (for example the planning, research and time management involved in doing a part time higher education course might be good examples) - it may be that the skills / experience that make you right for this job aren't all skills etc from your current job.

it can be a 'give us an example of a time you did this specific technical task' or 'a time you managed a project to a deadline' or 'a time you delivered excellent customer service' or something like that (i'm not sure i know - or can remember - what you do, and don't know how related this role is to what you do now)

it's probably worth re-reading and thinking of an example or two for each one, and if you can come up with ones from different situations, this may help show more broad experience. but yes, giving one example of X can advantage people who are good at bullshit and not give a chance to show a broad range of experience.

remember that the situation is about the organisation / team, the task / action is about what you as an individual did to make whatever it was happen.

personally, i'd say not to try and rehearse them word by word - sometimes they will add a twist like 'and what would you do different another time?' or 'and what did you learn from this?'

like most things, it's variable. i've had competency type interviews that have been more like a natter down the pub (although without a pint to hand) about work i've done in the past, and them talking a bit about what they do, and these have often led to job offers. i've had others that have been some HR nurk who doesn't know anything about the job asking very narrow questions and basically ticking off buzzwords against their checklist.

and is this an internal vacancy, or just circumstances that other colleagues are going for it? if it's internal, don't fall in to the trap of thinking you don't have to tell them stuff because they already know you / what you do - unless they specifically tell you otherwise, assume they are scoring everyone - internal or external - on the same basis. and likewise don't be afraid of repeating stuff you've put on the CV and / or application - sometimes that is used for shortlisting, then the score in the interview is the only thing that counts.

It's an external job which is almost exactly what I and every other member of my team do now. I don't actually know that anyone other than best buddy has applied for it but they will have done if they have any sense. There are a small number of organisations that do what we do and this is one of the best known and most respected ones.

They do say it's informal in style but to expect STAR. I'm going through the job/person spec (it's a bit informal in style but that's what it is basically) and trying to STAR it but it's a bit challenging as it's a very technical job.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

and trying to STAR it but it's a bit challenging as it's a very technical job.

hmm.

in which case, is it mostly going to be talking about technical stuff you've done in the past?

will the people interviewing you be technical people, or are you going to need to explain technical stuff to an outsider (although depending on what technical thing you do, being able to do that may be an advantage. some technical jobs require the skill of being able to explain patiently to someone who doesn't understand it all why their half-baked idea isn't possible...)

 

[newme]

Phone them tomorrow!

I wasn't sure if this was too direct but thinking about the timescales and the likely time of reply that is probably a good idea. It isn't marked as rejected or anything so I guess they are still interviewing?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I wasn't sure if this was too direct but thinking about the timescales and the likely time of reply that is probably a good idea. It isn't marked as rejected or anything so I guess they are still interviewing?

i'd say phone them - if something has gone wrong, leaving it a couple of days could make the difference.

did you get an e-mail saying they had received your application or anything at all?

 

[newme]

Hopefully if its happened to you, it will have happened to everyone else too, and they were in the process of trying to sort it and moved the interview date back or something. I was once on an interview panel for a grad position and we realised after 4 no-shows we'd not told students to put down their personal emails and by the time we emailed them back, they'd been locked out the uni addresses.

Considering they forgot to mention they were hiring a replacement when I was filling in another grade above the one I am applying to, this seems more than possible. I had a 4 hour handover with £xxm figures involved, which was done by mostly email as the people I was sending it to had just started or were on holiday. This is an extremely large public organisation.

 

[newme]

i'd say phone them - if something has gone wrong, leaving it a couple of days could make the difference.

did you get an e-mail saying they had received your application or anything at all?

I didn't even get an email saying I registered, I tried once hotmail.co.uk and it didn't work for some reason, the one with my actual name on it. I tried a hotmail.com one with a less professional, but not bad email on it on the deadline day. It worked, I used it for hours of inputting things in my CV. Got nothing saying I applied, website login says I did, also says I can send my application to myself, which does not work. Also that I have been invited to interview, which was not received

 

[Elpenor]

Another vote for phoning. If nothing else you’ll know quickly whether or not there’s any chance and can then move on.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

So first interview tomorrow. It's not a recruiter interview, two senior staff will be there. I should be preparing STAR type responses. I feel very out of my depth.

Also a bit traumatised by a recent internal interview where they asked me lots of STAR type questions for which I had no good answers and lost out to someone actually far less experienced than me.

The problem with my current job is that you basically do the work you're given. There's very little scope for taking on projects or doing anything particularly impressive other than doing your job well and getting your work in on time, which doesn't score points at interview.

Use examples from previous jobs, that will score points. It doesn't matter where you score the points from, so long as you score the points.*

*I'm not an expert and might be wrong, but this is my understanding.

 

[Cloo]

In the office and just feeling a bit detached and meh and like I want to get on with job hunting. Nothing seems to be moving with internal roles and I'm realising there's probably going to be quite a lot of competition with others in similar roles in and position as me.

I think tomorrow I'm going to look at all the professional membership orgs website for jobs (my last roles was with one, so it's a good angle to go for).

Also thinking I may take a pay drop (but still only to more than my last role) and regard this as a lucky blip, and would be ok to do that for something that floats my boat more. Its such a pain so few jobs actually say the sodding pay because then I just have to discount anywhere that just seems like it won't pay much - small charities, startups etc

 

[newme]

Another vote for phoning. If nothing else you’ll know quickly whether or not there’s any chance and can then move on.

I emailed the recruitment department, from multiple emails since they appear unable to reply to my hotmail.com account for unknown reasons. Got a reply on the hotmail.co.uk account which stated the email inviting me to an interview was sent on the 22nd, which I have absolutely not received. Checked junk, deleted, every other folder, tried phone mail, outlook, web based, absolutely nothing at all looking back over the entire of January. They are emailing the hiring manager to see if it was filled but this was last week and its a well paid role with security and a high pension contribution since its public sector.
Questioning whether they should have made additional effort to contact me as I provided alternative emails and telephone details which have been used before and I was obviously a motivated and well experienced and qualified candidate. It is in public procurement so if I had done the same and failed to follow up on a bid from a supplier and have put in a bid, made it to the next round and then did not reply to email I know I would have had someone ask why I didn't follow up which it appears they did not.

Apparently the hiring team will be contacting me now after I explained the lengths I have gone to in order to locate this missing email, I have little hope that will actually lead anywhere and am very discouraged that a faulty email issue has caused this. It was by far the best fit I have seen in months and I absolutely need a job asap now. Emergency fund has gone completely and I am having to access funds I should not be touching at all but food needs to be on the table and contribution based JSA does not support a family of 4, especially when only one is eligible for any child related benefits. Particularly annoying that if we had bought the council house we live in we would have access to all kinds of benefits we cannot have since I was building a LISA and am above the limit, I know thats a privileged position but it seems unfair to be drained dry for attempting to put some money away. We also got a £650 fine since NHS prepaid was buggered up by them not us and no letter was received so that has to go off the the MP as well. Already had to claim overpayment of student loans but I am getting to the point of seeing what I can flog in the house at this point.

 

[newme]

I emailed the recruitment department, from multiple emails since they appear unable to reply to my hotmail.com account for unknown reasons. Got a reply on the hotmail.co.uk account which stated the email inviting me to an interview was sent on the 22nd, which I have absolutely not received. Checked junk, deleted, every other folder, tried phone mail, outlook, web based, absolutely nothing at all looking back over the entire of January. They are emailing the hiring manager to see if it was filled but this was last week and its a well paid role with security and a high pension contribution since its public sector.
Questioning whether they should have made additional effort to contact me as I provided alternative emails and telephone details which have been used before and I was obviously a motivated and well experienced and qualified candidate. It is in public procurement so if I had done the same and failed to follow up on a bid from a supplier and have put in a bid, made it to the next round and then did not reply to email I know I would have had someone ask why I didn't follow up which it appears they did not.

Apparently the hiring team will be contacting me now after I explained the lengths I have gone to in order to locate this missing email, I have little hope that will actually lead anywhere and am very discouraged that a faulty email issue has caused this. It was by far the best fit I have seen in months and I absolutely need a job asap now. Emergency fund has gone completely and I am having to access funds I should not be touching at all but food needs to be on the table and contribution based JSA does not support a family of 4, especially when only one is eligible for any child related benefits. Particularly annoying that if we had bought the council house we live in we would have access to all kinds of benefits we cannot have since I was building a LISA and am above the limit, I know thats a privileged position but it seems unfair to be drained dry for attempting to put some money away. We also got a £650 fine since NHS prepaid was buggered up by them not us and no letter was received so that has to go off the the MP as well. Already had to claim overpayment of student loans but I am getting to the point of seeing what I can flog in the house at this point.

The head of the whole area has contacted me almost immediately, apologised for the problems relating to the original interview and now offered one next week!

 

[cesare]

The head of the whole area has contacted me almost immediately, apologised for the problems relating to the original interview and now offered one next week!

Fantastic news! Great you followed it up - good luck for the interview!

 

[newme]

Fantastic news! Great you followed it up - good luck for the interview!

Yeh I was desperately looking for some way to contact them and came across the recruitment complaints thing, no way to phone them as suggested here but they got on it quickly and sent it right to the top. Seems the guy I had emailed originally was not in today so glad I did not wait for that! This would pretty much solve all our problems immediately lol and having some notice its next week is a bonus, will be studying like crazy on what the hell I did there before. Been a 3 month gap since last place I worked so hoping they don't really ask about that, should be fairly standard to have some gaps but there is a new regulation (137 pages or something) I can study ahead of time incase it comes up and show I have been doing something thats beneficial to them.

 

[RubyToogood]

I think it went fairly well. Not STARry at all though, just a general chat. Next step would be a test.

Best work buddy and I agreed to acknowledge that we knew each other were applying and big each other up on the grounds it would make us look like team players.

I don't really want a job at all though. I want to lie down in the woods under a big pile of leaves and never come out.

 

[newme]

I think it went fairly well. Not STARry at all though, just a general chat. Next step would be a test.

Best work buddy and I agreed to acknowledge that we knew each other were applying and big each other up on the grounds it would make us look like team players.

I don't really want a job at all though. I want to lie down in the woods under a big pile of leaves and never come out.

Great approach to it, definitely with you on the not wanting a job thing. Think I'd pitch a tent then try building a hut tho. Well if I had some woods lol.

I hate STAR it's ridiculous, I get scored on adhering to a framework of answer formats not my actual words or performance? Nonsensical.

I've wanted to retire since I was about 13. It seems so much nicer, well it did they kinda messed with that.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Been a 3 month gap since last place I worked so hoping they don't really ask about that, should be fairly standard to have some gaps but there is a new regulation (137 pages or something) I can study ahead of time incase it comes up and show I have been doing something thats beneficial to them.

in the hire and fire environment of the last decade or two, minor gaps in employment aren't a big deal - i have the vague recollection of some application forms in the past where they wanted you to account for any gaps and if you'd been on the dole, which office you signed on at, but i've not seen that sort of thing for a long time. if it's the sort of job involving security clearance, then they might ask more questions at that stage.

i had about 6 months after redundancy in 2011 when i wasn't signing on or making much effort to find anything else, and i've generally got round that - i was on a part time course for some of it, did a bit of work on my place and mum-tat's house.

if there's something you can say about having been keeping up with whatever line of work you're in - reading the trade press / relevant articles / doing a bit of self-directed studying or whatever, that might be a good thing. or if you've been volunteering in anything, that might sound good.

may be worth having a line of bullshit ready if they ask you, but it probably won't be a big deal.

I think it went fairly well. Not STARry at all though, just a general chat.

I don't really want a job at all though. I want to lie down in the woods under a big pile of leaves and never come out.

i know the feeling, although i'd prefer somewhere centrally heated instead of the woods and a pile of blankets...

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I hate STAR it's ridiculous, I get scored on adhering to a framework of answer formats not my actual words or performance? Nonsensical.

if it's done right, it's about what you say within the format. you're not generally going to get scored if you stick the format but it's not relevant to whatever sort of experience / level they are looking for.

 

[newme]

if it's done right, it's about what you say within the format. you're not generally going to get scored if you stick the format but it's not relevant to whatever sort of experience / level they are looking for.

I spend ages trying to remember the format then at interview, it doesn't exist. I got several roles I think despite my interview, your over qualified but interview like shit. Fine who cares, two roles were made for me during reorganisations so it was clear I was getting it anyway.

Best interview I did was not star it was just talking, there was a wild tangent at one point. It was like a proper conversation. I'd also had 10mg of diazepam and some morphine but it was a terrible chair. 50% raise I got out of that.

 

[newme]

in the hire and fire environment of the last decade or two, minor gaps in employment aren't a big deal - i have the vague recollection of some application forms in the past where they wanted you to account for any gaps and if you'd been on the dole, which office you signed on at, but i've not seen that sort of thing for a long time. if it's the sort of job involving security clearance, then they might ask more questions at that stage.

i had about 6 months after redundancy in 2011 when i wasn't signing on or making much effort to find anything else, and i've generally got round that - i was on a part time course for some of it, did a bit of work on my place and mum-tat's house.

Potentially I've got a sick family member, deciding to switch private for public and also a new regulations thing to learn. Plus I can bluff excel stuff they don't know I knew for learning it the meantime.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I spend ages trying to remember the format then at interview, it doesn't exist.

Best interview I did was not star it was just talking, there was a wild tangent at one point. It was like a proper conversation.

you might have done STAR without realising it. If it's done right, it can be like a proper conversation. a 'STAR' answer is basically along the lines of 'I used to work for this organisation. One time we were trying to do this. I was responsible for that element of it, this is how I did it, this is what a success it was'

sometimes the 'success' can be that nobody outside actually noticed you'd done it - i've got one i use now and then that involved dealing with a monumental balls-up (of another organisation's making) that i sorted out in a way that the actual service users didn't notice anything had happened.

I'd also had 10mg of diazepam and some morphine

interesting - not sure i'll try that one, though

Potentially I've got a sick family member, deciding to switch private for public and also a new regulations thing to learn. Plus I can bluff excel stuff they don't know I knew for learning it the meantime.

at one interview, the one when i went back in to full time work after a couple of years of part time / temporary things, i said something like i'd been looking for a while, but much of what i'd seen was either places i didn't want to move to, or organisations i didn't want to work for, which seemed to be an acceptable line of bullshit as they offered me the job...

 

[Orang Utan]

never heard of STAR interviews before - just sounds like a normal interview to me?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

never heard of STAR interviews before - just sounds like a normal interview to me?

it's fairly standard in public sector, where (at least the theory is) everyone is asked the same questions to get at skills / experience / knowledge and scored on them - a 'give me an example of a time you did X' question rather than a 'what would you do if...'

private sector is more variable - some interviewers will ask bloody silly questions, some interviews are more about interviewer seeing if you are the right (for them) race / age / perceived sexual orientation / speak with the right accent.