equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I've long thought that too. I've applied for three jobs this week and gotten one rejection.
The hardest thing is sending off applications into a black hole and hearing nothing, just nothing.
The job hunting support thread
- Thread starter Cloo
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The hardest thing is sending off applications into a black hole and hearing nothing, just nothing.
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
It surprises me you're having such trouble equationgirl as I thought you did something fairly niche. The jobs that are hardest to get often are the ones that almost anyone could do and billions of people send their CVs in. The hirers end up having to absolutely split hairs over who to hire.
Although you say it's a numbers game, and it kind of is, it's also true that the more niche and unusual the job, the fewer applications they'll have for it and the higher the chances of success. Like, if you are a data analyst with detailed knowledge of some ancient legacy system who likes watching darts in your spare time, you stand a fairly good chance of getting the data analyst job at the International Darts Association who happen to use that system.
Although you say it's a numbers game, and it kind of is, it's also true that the more niche and unusual the job, the fewer applications they'll have for it and the higher the chances of success. Like, if you are a data analyst with detailed knowledge of some ancient legacy system who likes watching darts in your spare time, you stand a fairly good chance of getting the data analyst job at the International Darts Association who happen to use that system.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I do, Ruby. The problem is jobs in my field don't come up a lot. I am working with two recruiters and they say companies are just taking longer and longer to get back to them about even starting the process, and are taking weeks to then place a vacancy or decide who to interview. Plus then there's extra stages to the whole process, so before I would maybe have two interviews and get a job offer fairly quickly, I've had two roles both do three interviews and then decide I wasn't progressing to the final stage in each case.
And companies take their own sweet time in getting back to you in between each stage. And the last time it was a face to face panel interview and they didn't even offer any travel expenses (the DWP did). A couple of small company leads have gone nowhere after a couple of interviews because of problems between the founders, big companies are just....big companies
Last year it was four months to get a new job, this year I'm at six months and counting.
I'm tailoring my CV to each vacancy, writing a cover letter (I'm looking at jobs in IP, knowledge management, cyber security, contracts as I have carried out roles across all four competencies), reading blogs to make sure I'm using up to date best practice , so I'm hoping it won't be too much longer. I think the market is going crazy post-pandemic, and the cost of living crisis has just made everything worse.
ruffneck23
front left
I got a reply from the council finally and didnt make it to interview.
But I did let them know, Ive got something far better than they were offering.
But I did let them know, Ive got something far better than they were offering.
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
Thats got to be satisfying, I had a recruiter for a company that rejected me twice for different roles, contact me about something now I had a job and presumably the job title that went along with it was now more along the lines of what they wanted to see on a CV. Offering less than the industry standard and way less than I am on now, I replied if anything comes up thats 'figure thats three times what the were offering and way more than I make' came up then to let me know. Not planning on going anywhere in a hurry but if someone wants to give me silly money I would think about it, plus they can feedback they are not offering enough.
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ruffneck23
front left
Amazing news !!!
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I submitted an application for a job last week. On Monday they invited me to an initial chat about the process which I did yesterday around 1pm:
upside: it's two interviews only, with maybe a presentation at the second one. Could be onsite, but within travelling distance so not really an issue.
Downside: it's five days in the office. I said I would consider relocating once I passed probation. The chap then said they'd let me know within 24 hours. Unsurprisingly, I haven't heard anything within 24 hours.
Five days in the office feels very outmoded now.
HR chap also claimed the office was within 10 minutes walk of the station. I know there the office is, it's more like 20-25 minutes at least.
upside: it's two interviews only, with maybe a presentation at the second one. Could be onsite, but within travelling distance so not really an issue.
Downside: it's five days in the office. I said I would consider relocating once I passed probation. The chap then said they'd let me know within 24 hours. Unsurprisingly, I haven't heard anything within 24 hours.
Five days in the office feels very outmoded now.
HR chap also claimed the office was within 10 minutes walk of the station. I know there the office is, it's more like 20-25 minutes at least.
ruffneck23
front left
Good luck, I'm sure if you get it you can work the details out.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I don't think I will get it - I could do the job no problem but they're asking for a professional qualification that really isn't necessary and I don't have it (and have no inclination of getting as I would have to get a training contract and that's not going to happen,)
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
6 June - I saw a couple of jobs advertised via Facebook, well they advertised three jobs. I applied saying I was interested in two of the roles, they're a bit different, but I've got relevant experience for both, albeit one of the roles is at a more senior level than my experience/training.
7 June - submitted an application just after midnight, having spent all evening creating a new CV pulling together relevant previous work experience and some more recent stuff that was highly relevant.
15 June - I get an email from him asking to meet if I'm around, or by phone if not.
16 June - I reply saying I'm due back 15 July, but can have a phone interview, I'm usually working in the day, but asking what's the best time for him?
* tumbleweed *
20 June - I send a polite chaser, asking when might be a good time to have a phone call about my application?
* tumbleweed *
23 June (lunchtime) - I send another polite email, expressing sympathy that he might be busy because I understand running a business can be demanding, but wondering if I can have an update, ie when would be a good time for a chat or has he already filled the positions?
* tumbleweed *
The business is open until early evening, and it's open Saturdays and Sundays too.
It's a new-ish business, opened late last year, hasn't been publicised that much, one that I would probably have visited and spent lots of money with, even if they'd sent me a polite 'We regret to have to inform you...' but this is leaving a bit of a bitter taste.
Is it me, or does it seem really disrespectful to be messed around, invited for an interview and then ghosted? Why would a small customer-facing company do that, just spunk potential business goodwill apparently for no good reason?
7 June - submitted an application just after midnight, having spent all evening creating a new CV pulling together relevant previous work experience and some more recent stuff that was highly relevant.
15 June - I get an email from him asking to meet if I'm around, or by phone if not.
16 June - I reply saying I'm due back 15 July, but can have a phone interview, I'm usually working in the day, but asking what's the best time for him?
* tumbleweed *
20 June - I send a polite chaser, asking when might be a good time to have a phone call about my application?
* tumbleweed *
23 June (lunchtime) - I send another polite email, expressing sympathy that he might be busy because I understand running a business can be demanding, but wondering if I can have an update, ie when would be a good time for a chat or has he already filled the positions?
* tumbleweed *
The business is open until early evening, and it's open Saturdays and Sundays too.
It's a new-ish business, opened late last year, hasn't been publicised that much, one that I would probably have visited and spent lots of money with, even if they'd sent me a polite 'We regret to have to inform you...' but this is leaving a bit of a bitter taste.
Is it me, or does it seem really disrespectful to be messed around, invited for an interview and then ghosted? Why would a small customer-facing company do that, just spunk potential business goodwill apparently for no good reason?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It's the new jobhunting reality unfortunately.
I was told to expect to hear from someone by Thursday lunchtime, I might give them a nudge next week but quite frankly if they switch to tumbleweeds this soon in the process it doesn't bode well.
I feel your frustration.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
i think it's almost a constant that people never get back to you when they say they will.
not contacting people who have not been shortlisted has always been fairly common, not making contact at all after an interview seems bloody rude - i've only had that once, and it was quite a weird interview - the interviewing manager seemed to take an instant dislike to me, and after some of the questions, seemed to be saying 'no, the right answer was X' with X being more or less what i'd just said.
not contacting people who have not been shortlisted has always been fairly common, not making contact at all after an interview seems bloody rude - i've only had that once, and it was quite a weird interview - the interviewing manager seemed to take an instant dislike to me, and after some of the questions, seemed to be saying 'no, the right answer was X' with X being more or less what i'd just said.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I think I've been ghosted after interview a handful of times now. Once quite a long time ago and when I called them out on it six weeks later, saying I was disappointed, given I'd had to pay around £100 for train to/from London, plus they'd asked all interviewees to flatplan an issue of the magazine, not only suggesting the subject/headline of articles, but also suggesting interviewees/contacts. I received an apologetic reply, saying I hadn't been successful but the manager had something else in mind for me but hadn't got round to contacting me about it.
That was the first time, albeit 'accidental' years ago.
But it's happened a few times in the past couple of years.
Does eg having a Zoom interview rather than a 'real' interview mean they think the usual courtesies don't apply? I mean you might not have spent lots of money on travel expenses, but I usually spend hours on interview preparation, researching the company and the sector, it takes time and effort, not to mention the time the interview takes.
It does seem to be becoming more common. But if an employer is B2C don't they appreciate that it's terrible for goodwill? They will lose potential customers. There's a statistic about if someone complains about a company, they'll tell 10 friends or something. Why would a new business that sells to the public risk job applicants shit-talking them when they need all the help they can get in their first couple of years in business?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Yeah, didn't even get an interview. But considering they wanted someone in the office five days a week I'm not that bothered.
I mean, who even asks for that these days?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I applied for a role yesterday lunchtime.
I just received the rejection. If anybody gave it more than a cursory glance I would be very surprised.
I just received the rejection. If anybody gave it more than a cursory glance I would be very surprised.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Closely followed by another rejection just now.
Both contained no indication on why my application is not being taken forwards.
Both contained no indication on why my application is not being taken forwards.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
are these the CV / letter sort of thing, or online, or application form or what?
i know that 'the done thing' with CVs does change over the course of time - just wondering if you're inadvertently doing the 'wrong' thing in some way?
has someone independent had a look over what you're doing?
and without knowing a lot about you other than what you post on here, but do you need to make the CV have less clues about age / gender?
in england, the national careers service does offer advice to people of all ages (at the time i left school, the 'careers service' then was attached to the education authority, and only did school leavers / youths) - i have an idea you're in scotland, in which case the scottish equivalent is here.
(aware that some of this may be obvious and / or you may already have done some / all of it)
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Maybe a real person didn't even see it? Maybe it was processed by one of those automated application filtering software packages?
The next time I apply for a job I really want, I think I'm going to ask them how they filter/shortlist.
I've received conflicting information:
I've been told to use colourful templates in Canva to make my application stand out.
I've been told not to use colourful templates because automated CV readers get confused by the formatting and can't read them properly, and so it's best to submit a boring old-school type CV.
So I think I need to know if they're using automated systems so I don't need to care about formatting and just make sure I use all their keywords.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
hmm
last time i saw advice, the message seemed to be not to go for anything too colourful / fancy, with the possibly exception if you were going for something as a designer or something like that.
i also remember a thread (i can't remember if it was here or somewhere else) - someone had an agency send a CV back and say it was not in the correct format for a CV. then they sent the 'improved' CV to another agency and was told it was not in the correct format for a CV...
i think my record for getting a 'no' from one of them was a matter of a few minutes...
Helen Back
:-)
Mr Back keeps applying for jobs, gets shortlisted, has an interview or two to build up his hopes then.... nothing.
The last couple of places didn't even bother getting back to him, just ghosted him, even when he sent both of them an email to follow up.
And he only finally found out one of those two places hadn't selected him for sure when he saw the job advertised again on Indeed!
They just don't care do they. Maybe a bullet dodged with a crap employer if that's what they're like.
The last couple of places didn't even bother getting back to him, just ghosted him, even when he sent both of them an email to follow up.
And he only finally found out one of those two places hadn't selected him for sure when he saw the job advertised again on Indeed!
They just don't care do they. Maybe a bullet dodged with a crap employer if that's what they're like.
Helen Back
:-)
I would like to be the person who does the firing at a certain cinema in Leicester Square.
Then I can say, "You have failed The Empire..."
Then I can say, "You have failed The Empire..."
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
Both put in notice 2 weeks ago, fuck knows why as neither had that long left, both had longer. Seems he did 2 weeks after getting a job, where she worked, and just bailed and they are off to semi legally live at his mums for free and for the first time ever she is signing on. I cannot see this as a particularly great development.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
it's a while since i've been close to the system, but it used to be the case that if you resign from a job (rather than get made redundant or come to the end of a fixed term job) you were classed as 'voluntarily unemployed' so wouldn't get unemployment benefit for x amount of time. there used to be a 'hardship payment' you could claim - i don't know what the deal is now, but can't imagine it's got more generous.
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
They are moving area and no transport which may get them around it. Idk tho. What got me was neither said anything to me, who went through it multiple times, worked for council, accounts, procurement, compliance and law bits. They are now both on 0 hour contracts and getting bugger all. Wont be moving for a few weeks it seems like. Makes no sense except if he did not want to work, back to his old house and his old mates. I know the area, it is no thriving, she can land a job at any restaurant nearby with an opening, he will not. Feels disturbingly like a pattern.
it's a while since i've been close to the system, but it used to be the case that if you resign from a job (rather than get made redundant or come to the end of a fixed term job) you were classed as 'voluntarily unemployed' so wouldn't get unemployment benefit for x amount of time. there used to be a 'hardship payment' you could claim - i don't know what the deal is now, but can't imagine it's got more generous.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
mum-tat had an application for the dole declined when she moved house (about 50 miles) after getting married, that was not considered adequate reason for leaving a job. that was some time in the mid 60s, so the rules have probably changed a few times since then (and the rules may have been different for married women then) and she probably wouldn't have challenged / appealed the decision.
may depend whether the moving house thing is seen as voluntary, or not.
with most things, if DWP or whoever initially say 'no' it's usually worth going through the proper process for challenging / appealing any decision - the system is increasingly a benefits denial system. when it happened to me (i'd resigned from a job on the basis of a verbal job offer through friend of friend, but new company went bust the weekend before i was due to start) the dole office did tell me about hardship payments - i'm not sure if they do that any more.
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
They had to move out as they could no longer afford the rent, through some scheme to do with something about her boyfriend having been in care(? not sure on why exactly or if this correct but all I have). It paid 2 months up front for them, he didn't get a job for months, she took jobs paying less and less and closer to home (max was a 20min walk) and went from salaried with set shifts (in hospitality!) benefits to zero hour contract. Ran out of cash basically. He is moving back home really she is coming with him so legitimate reason as they also have no transport. She is a chef with 2 rosetted background so work is easy to find. I guess he could go back to his old workplace if they have an opening, is retail but not many businesses there to choose from when you have no transport.
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