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The end of cash?

Yep... Our buses in Sheffield are run by First and are just shit really. Bad payment systems, buses in poor condition, no coordination between different types of public transport (trams), inadequate shelter at bus stops, terrible timetabling. People just drive. Lot of decent mechanics around, plenty of used cars available. Trams afaik are better, but they obviously only serve quite specific routes.
 
It's a pet peeve of mine that I can park in the nearby town shopping area for a few hours for less than a return bus fare for 2. Inside London, at least, shouldn't there be some sort of joined-up thinking and pricing to make the bus more attractive than driving? I'm very pro public transport, but I'm not taking the bus in when it costs me £2 less to drive in. (£5 for 3 hours' parking, versus £7 for two return bus fares) We're talking just a few miles, so petrol cost doesn't really enter the picture. The bus is great when you're on your own, starts to get questionable for the pair of you, and is ridiculous if there's 4 of you. At least the London kids get free bus fare.
I agree the thinking should be more joined up and these kinds of situations should be eliminated but I'm not sure refusing to pay just £2 extra amounts to being "very" pro public transport.
 
I agree the thinking should be more joined up and these kinds of situations should be eliminated but I'm not sure refusing to pay just £2 extra amounts to being "very" pro public transport.
Once a week. I'm glad you don't mind the extra £100+ a year, but I do. Back when I was in-office enough for a pass, I wouldn't have even considered it - I think it's one of those things that covid has secretly screwed in a way. Probably won't even have a car once this one dies, but it's 12 years old and paid for.
Bus fares are capped at £2 aren’t they?
£1.75 for us lucky London people! But that's each way, x2 people.

Editing to add: I should say that I often go into town more than once a week, but generally walk it there and bus back for picking up small things on my own.
 
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Once a week. I'm glad you don't mind the extra £100+ a year, but I do. Back when I was in-office enough for a pass, I wouldn't have even considered it - I think it's one of those things that covid has secretly screwed in a way. Probably won't even have a car once this one dies, but it's 12 years old and paid for.

£1.75 for us lucky London people! But that's each way, x2 people.

I'm on the edge of Manchester. To get the train return is almost a tenner. So whilst parking can be expensive it's not £20 for two of us.

I still get the train most of the time, but it does make me think.
 
Have to say, even if central London parking were at all reasonable, you'd still have to pay me to drive into it! :D

God. I've been paid to drive a Luton van around London transporting bikes for a big event. Added to the time pressures which meant I couldn't make a single mistake with the Sat Nav. Let's just say it wasn't enough.
 
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Have to say, even if central London parking were at all reasonable, you'd still have to pay me to drive into it! :D
Driving into London is bonkers, the deepest I have been into London is just inside the M25 (Heathrow Airport, Uxbridge and the Harry Potter Studio Tour) any deeper leave the car at Luton and get the train.
 
Once a week. I'm glad you don't mind the extra £100+ a year, but I do.
You can call it £2 a week or £100 a year or 28p a day depending on whether you want to make it sound a lot or a little.

Of course the £2 saving to you is a cost to other people in terms of congestion, air pollution and road safety.

Not really wanting to have a go at you; this is just an illustration of how people make transport decisions especially when there's the sunk cost of car ownership in the background.

But I will rank you as "moderately" pro public transport rather than "very".
 
It's a pet peeve of mine that I can park in the nearby town shopping area for a few hours for less than a return bus fare for 2. Inside London, at least, shouldn't there be some sort of joined-up thinking and pricing to make the bus more attractive than driving? I'm very pro public transport, but I'm not taking the bus in when it costs me £2 less to drive in. (£5 for 3 hours' parking, versus £7 for two return bus fares) We're talking just a few miles, so petrol cost doesn't really enter the picture. The bus is great when you're on your own, starts to get questionable for the pair of you, and is ridiculous if there's 4 of you. At least the London kids get free bus fare.
Yes agree for some families it's more economically to use your own car instead of paying extra for public transport.
 
It's a pet peeve of mine that I can park in the nearby town shopping area for a few hours for less than a return bus fare for 2. Inside London, at least, shouldn't there be some sort of joined-up thinking and pricing to make the bus more attractive than driving? I'm very pro public transport, but I'm not taking the bus in when it costs me £2 less to drive in. (£5 for 3 hours' parking, versus £7 for two return bus fares) We're talking just a few miles, so petrol cost doesn't really enter the picture. The bus is great when you're on your own, starts to get questionable for the pair of you, and is ridiculous if there's 4 of you. At least the London kids get free bus fare.
I was going to post a long follow up to this but it's not the thread for it.
 
From The Guardian

Cash has mounted a comeback in the UK, with payments made using notes and coins increasing for the first time in a decade, data shows.

Cash use has been in long-term decline, but the banking body UK Finance said the cost of living crisis had prompted many people to turn back to “tangible” physical money to help them manage their budgets.

Last year also brought a “big jump” in the total number of payments made using all methods, which was attributed in part to people increasingly making lots of small visits to supermarkets, and shopping around more to get good value, rather than doing one big grocery shop.

In its annual report on the UK payments market, the banking trade body said plastic still ruled the roost in 2022. For the first time, half of all payments in the UK were made using debit cards, while the number of contactless payments jumped by 30% in a year to reach 17bn.

The total number of payments across all methods increased to 45.7bn, up from 40.4bn in 2021 and £35.6bn in 2020. UK Finance said this was also due to changes to travel habits linked to hybrid working, with many people now paying for individual journeys rather than buying a season ticket.

However, it was the mini-renaissance of notes and coins that was the most eye-catching finding. Cash payments increased for the first time in a decade last year, rising by 7% to reach 6.4bn payments, despite the fact that many businesses have gone card-only.

The number of people who live “largely cashless lives” – defined as either using no notes or coins at all, or using them only about once a month – had been rising every year for some time, and hit 23.1 million in 2021. But in 2022 the trend went into reverse, falling to 21.6 million.


“Growing fears about inflation and the rising cost of living have meant some people are making greater use of cash as a way of managing budgets,” said a UK Finance spokesperson.

Its report added: “Once inflation falls and consumer confidence in the economy returns, we expect a return to the long-run downward trend in cash usage.”

Nevertheless, the banking body appears to have tweaked its forecasts for the decline of cash. Last year it predicted that by 2031 there would be fewer than 3bn cash payments made in the UK, accounting for about 6% of all payments. Now it says that in 2032 there are forecast to be about 3.3bn cash payments, representing about 7% of the total.

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The data also suggested that the growth of buy now, pay later (BNPL) credit in the UK may be plateauing. BNPL lets shoppers stagger payments for items ranging from clothes to essentials, and about one in eight people in the UK (12%) reported using it to buy something during 2022, the same proportion as in 2021.

However, 8% of people aged 65-plus said they had used BNPL, up from 4% in 2021.
 
"The total number of payments across all methods increased to 45.7bn, up from 40.4bn. Cash payments increased...by 7% to reach 6.4bn payments"

So cash payments continued to decline as a proportion of total payments. Typical Guardian newspeak.
The quotes appear to be lifted from the UK Finance data press release.

The number of people who live “largely cashless lives” – defined as either using no notes or coins at all, or using them only about once a month – had been rising every year for some time, and hit 23.1 million in 2021. But in 2022 the trend went into reverse, falling to 21.6 million.
 
It was noticeable in Marseille that a lot of businesses were part cashless but some weren’t. For example, a lot of the bars had created additional seating / bars outside which were cash only.

Also several taxi drivers told me there was a surcharge to pay by card, and one said when he worked on Sundays it was cash only :hmm:
 
Nothing to do with the cash element, but fuck me, the statistical nightmare of wading through er... The mainstream media :hmm:

'For the first time, half of all payments in the UK were made using debit cards, while the number of contactless payments jumped by 30% in a year to reach 17bn.'

Strictly correct, but nice to use all those different measures in one sentence. Not confusing on a breakfast skim read at all.

'The total number of payments across all methods increased to 45.7bn, up from 40.4bn in 2021 and £35.6bn in 2020.'

Sorry? Are you referring to number of payments or value? Because the first two quite explicitly say 'number of payments', but you've but a '£' before the last (it is number of payments, but whatever).

'Cash payments increased for the first time in a decade last year, rising by 7% to reach 6.4bn payments, despite the fact that many businesses have gone card-only.'

Right. Fuck. The number you increase by 7% to get 6.4 is 5.98. So. We went from 5.98bn/40.4bn (14.8%) to 6.4bn/45.7bn (14%). So cash declined as a percentage of total payments. I think. Though another thing to bear in mind is that the figures are the sum off all transactions... We really need a breakdown of what is going on in terms of shop-floor retail. Though I suppose we get this (original report), which is probably the more important point:

'At the same time there were 1.1 million consumers who mainly used cash, choosing this payment method when doing their day-to-dayshopping (although the majority still use other payment methods topay their regular bills). This was a slight decline as compared with 2020,when 1.2 million people mainly used cash.'

Report WARNING DIRECT PDF DOWNLOAD (yes I have downloaded this about 4 times now)


It's a summary incidentally, so there is also a full report (was that posted upthread? Fuck it, I'm done for the day)
 
It was noticeable in Marseille that a lot of businesses were part cashless but some weren’t. For example, a lot of the bars had created additional seating / bars outside which were cash only.

Also several taxi drivers told me there was a surcharge to pay by card, and one said when he worked on Sundays it was cash only :hmm:
les serveurs always made a mint from tips that went into their many pocketed large belts, this only really works with cash.
 
I've been staying in very small village in Yorkshire for the past week, Appletreewick, somehow it has 2 pubs , the area is popular with walkers, cyclists & campers. One of the pubs, The Craven Arms does not take cash , it is a thriving pub/restaurant .
 
I've been staying in very small village in Yorkshire for the past week, Appletreewick, somehow it has 2 pubs , the area is popular with walkers, cyclists & campers. One of the pubs, The Craven Arms does not take cash , it is a thriving pub/restaurant .

Oh that looked nice. We went swimming in the river there last weekend, first time I'd visited. Sadly our campsite was a bit of a drive away so I didn't get to sample the pubs (but they both looked good).
 
I've been staying in very small village in Yorkshire for the past week, Appletreewick, somehow it has 2 pubs , the area is popular with walkers, cyclists & campers. One of the pubs, The Craven Arms does not take cash , it is a thriving pub/restaurant .

I am yet to come across a business that doesn't take cash, I think it should be illegal to refuse legal tender.
 
My local only takes card and their business seems to boom, Pre-Lurgy they used to have a cash machine but it's gone now leaving the Tesco Express the sole ATM in a town of about 7500ish people

Probably easier for the bar staff not having drunk people fuck round with change.
 
Here's something I don't get; if banks are so keen to get people to go cashless, then why the fuck aren't they structuring their card charges in order to encourage it? Because as things currently stand, they're basically incentivising many smaller businesses to hold on to cash transactions.

It's why I'm not convinced that banks actually want to get rid of cash, at least not completely. Certainly any such desire is no greater than their desire to squeeze more money out of businesses in the shorter term.
 
Here's something I don't get; if banks are so keen to get people to go cashless, then why the fuck aren't they structuring their card charges in order to encourage it? Because as things currently stand, they're basically incentivising many smaller businesses to hold on to cash transactions.
How are they doing this?
 
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