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The end of cash?

Can you explain what they are requiring customers to do? I’m not being sarky, I can’t discern it from the screenshots. Are they saying you need to present an app or contactless card just to be able to shop? Before even paying for anything I mean. If so, yep I’d be with you I’m against that. As much as contactless is my preferred way of paying. I’m against businesses the only accept cash, I mean I don’t use them. but against supermarkets only accepting electronic payments.
Yes, exactly that; before you can enter the shop you have to present a QR code from their app or tap your contactless card on the entry barriers. The only staff visible were 3 security guards who were monitoring the entry and exit gates. All very dystopian.
 
I wouldn't cast my mother's position as one of being baffled; more that she just doesn't trust or believe in the invisible/intangible technology. She's seen other people use contactless and seen it work, but she just won't go there; simple as that.
Liked because my nan is 100, she still uses postal orders and cheques to buy things from catalogues and pay her bills. She writes letters to utility companies rather than phone (she's pretty deaf) and still draws her pension out at the local P.O. to keep as cash to pay her carer for shopping etc. Cash only, doesn't trust the banks either.
 
Where are these stores?
Greenwich & Utrecht only AFAICS, so I was unlucky to stumble upon the Greenwich one yesterday when I wanted to visit an Aldi. Looks like the company have hoofed quite a lot of investment at the model, though...so they clearly hope it will work and be the future of Aldi shopping for more of us. I stood an watched open-mouthed as people actually entered the shop gate by swiping their contactless to get in! :eek: (Mostly students, apparently)
 
It's not beyond imagination, and certainly not in conspiracy territory, to worry authoritarian governments might use a cashless society to control or monitor the finances of certain ethnic, economic or other groups.
Don't need to imagine it, see Chinese Social Credit system...its very real and clearly the direction of travel for the rest of the planet
 
I’m curious about the “doesn’t trust the banks” thing. Does this extend to not trusting them to keep any money in at all, or is it only this specific form of payment that people don’t trust?
In my old Mum's case, she trusts the bank alright, but just not the Catweazle/electrickery of the invisible contactless transaction.
 
Don't need to imagine it, see Chinese Social Credit system...its very real and clearly the direction of travel for the rest of the planet

Often used in propaganda against China. From the Wiki you've linked to.

There is a common misconception that China operates a nationwide "social credit score" system that assigns individuals a score based on their behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. However, this is not true. Western media reports have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[17][18] According to the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a Berlin-based think tank, the social credit system does not continuously monitor or evaluate individual behavior. Punishments are only for violations of laws and regulations, and not for simply having a low score. Furthermore, it is unlikely that a social credit "score" will ever be implemented.
 
I’m curious about the “doesn’t trust the banks” thing. Does this extend to not trusting them to keep any money in at all, or is it only this specific form of payment that people don’t trust?
She doesn't trust them at all. In the slightest for any transaction or to keep her money safe. Around ten years ago I had to get her to deposit the contents of many envelopes and boxes of 20's into an ISA because I was so concerned about burglary/theft/scammers.

On this last visit we discovered around 2k in old 20's that were WELL out of circulation. Also trying to deposit cash and the bank asking where did you get all this from? and her stubbornly saying none of your bloody business young lady.
 
Often used in propaganda against China. From the Wiki you've linked to.
I didnt read the wiki, only posted it for those who might not have heard of it
My source for worry is the book We Have Been Harmonised: Life in China’s Surveillance State by Kai Strittmatter
The fusion of technology and state control and surveillance is all around us, and its ever deepening. Cash remains one way of counteracting that relation. That said I dont use cash at all, but the argument is sound.
 
not wanting to go all tinfoil hat, but it's not that long ago or far away that there was a prime minister talking about restricting access to bank accounts as a possible punishment for non compliance

 
Yes, exactly that; before you can enter the shop you have to present a QR code from their app or tap your contactless card on the entry barriers. The only staff visible were 3 security guards who were monitoring the entry and exit gates. All very dystopian.

That is fucked up Must admit I don’t use the nearest Aldi so don’t know if it’s Nationwide. But I would not in any case if this is their policy. I prefer to pay with contactless. but I’m not down with having to present your payment method just to get in and buy some bloody bread and milk.
 
According to the big sign by the door and the website, you don't have to use the app, you present your contactless card at the beginning rather than the end.

I see. So it’s a particular store or type of store. I don’t think these will catch on widely. Didn’t Amazon close a similar store quite recently.
 
Yes, exactly that; before you can enter the shop you have to present a QR code from their app or tap your contactless card on the entry barriers. The only staff visible were 3 security guards who were monitoring the entry and exit gates. All very dystopian.

Sounds much like the 'Just Walk Out' technology used in Amazon Fresh stores. Present the QR code to enter and then just put stuff in your bag as you shop and walk out. I don't mind the technology particularly but the stores were always really basic and only had essentials so I rarely bothered.

Watch out fort this though, already being rolled out in America. Amazon Dash Cart - trolleys that scan as you shop. And you just walk out with them. Apparently they are the replacement for Just Walk Out. According to The Verge anyway.

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I see. So it’s a particular store or type of store. I don’t think these will catch on widely. Didn’t Amazon close a similar store quite recently.
Yeah, looks like they're running 2 pilot stores, one of which happens to be in Greenwich. I'd imagine that they're funding the stores with a view to wider roll-out. I've just read that they have recently tweaked the model to include contactless; previously (since introduction in 2022) access had been by app only. I'm assuming that the app has linked payment details to allow the system to work. I'm no expert but it sounds like they're using "smart shelves" and possibly computer aided camera technology to follow/record shoppers purchase. No thanks.
 
I see. So it’s a particular store or type of store. I don’t think these will catch on widely. Didn’t Amazon close a similar store quite recently.
Amazon Fresh. The first chain to use this kind of checkout-less tech and their stores exclusively use it.
They have closed a couple of locations recently but still growing & opening more. So it was more about those locations underperforming rather than the whole concept going tits up.
 
I see. So it’s a particular store or type of store. I don’t think these will catch on widely. Didn’t Amazon close a similar store quite recently.
Yes because it is a daft idea that doesn't work very well. Another example of companies buying into AI hype that doesn't stand up.

I might be making it up, but think the Amazon one came down to a bunch of people watching on camera. I know a lot of AI claims come down to people being uderpaid to do a job that is supposedly AI.
 
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Amazon Fresh. The first chain to use this kind of checkout-less tech and their stores exclusively use it.
They have closed a couple of locations recently but still growing & opening more. So it was more about those locations underperforming rather than the whole concept going tits up.
Looks like the idea only works with certain demographics that will be more receptive to the technology.
 
I mean basically, if you want to use cash to buy Aldi products in Greenwich, they're giving you the big fuck off, scum.
 
Yes because it is a daft idea that doesn't work very well. Another example of companies buying into AI hype that doesn't stand up.

I might be making it up, but think the Amazon one came down to a bunch of people watching on camera. I know a lot of AI claims come down to people being uderpaid to do a job that is supposedly AI.
Here we are.

 
I mean basically, if you want to use cash to buy Aldi products in Greenwich, they're giving you the big fuck off, scum.
Honestly I think this is more about trying to attract customers witha cool gimmick with some vague idea that if it works they will save money on staff in the long term. But it won't work.
 
Honestly I think this is more about trying to attract customers witha cool gimmick with some vague idea that if it works they will save money on staff in the long term. But it won't work.
Not really convinced about that; seems like a load of investment for footfall through 1 shop in Greenwich/Utrecht. Pilots are usually that, aren't they? Snagging/evaluation exercises with a view to roll-out. It'll be the wage savings that gives them a corporate hard-on.
 
Not really convinced about that; seems like a load of investment for footfall through 1 shop in Greenwich/Utrecht. Pilots are usually that, aren't they? Snagging/evaluation exercises with a view to roll-out. It'll be the wage savings that gives them a corporate hard-on.
It will be wage savings they are looking for long term, but it won't work as there are too many issues. I don't have an issue with the idea itself in theory if it worked but it doesn't.
 
Here we are.


According to the verge, Amazon insisted the tech wasn't actually just hundreds of people in India watching you. They were simply 'Annotating the data' whatever that means.


Amazon says its workers are tasked with annotating AI-generated and real shopping data to improve the Just Walk Out system — not run the whole thing.
 
Once again, the actual issue, highlighted here, is obscured by "they're bringing in a Chinese-style social credit system you know" conspiracist nonsense.
It may well be conspiracist nonsense. Nevertheless, it creates the type of systems and the capacity for "social credit" type programmes. Sure, it may never happen... given the benign nature of capitalism and the state... er... :oops:
 
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