The current situation in Venezuela

[Jeff Robinson]

Recent report suggests 40,000 Venezuelans murdered by US sanctions. It’s a rerun of Chile basically isn’t it? Make the economy scream and then assist a fascist thug to power to ‘restore order’.

US sanctions on Venezuela 'responsible for tens of thousands of deaths'

 

[teqniq]

From what little I know from a couple of years ago Maduro and his associates are completely inept when it comes to managing the economy. A combination of fantasy economics and cronyism, so that coupled with US interference and it's a wonder that anything still works at all.

 

[shakespearegirl]

I’m in Santa Marta in Colombia at the moment and the number of Venezuelians living on the streets here is shocking. According to locals the number is growing every day. The Colombians are pretty supportive but in a country without much of a welfare system and huge social problems of their own the situation is getting pretty desperate for the refugees

 

[Humberto]

These collapses are because everybody wants to be the head figure, instead of building a society on reason. That is a stable base instead of lurching. Its a sad time for sure. In a region that is surely the closest to paradise; potentially.

People are (nobody specific meant here) stupid, in the sense that they are very short-termist. Not coming up with a good policy/plan to last even their own life-times. Ruling classes generally are brutal in their dealings. But they don't seem to last long because of it, and all this unjust upheaval is the result. And what goes before comes back around.

But people know this. All the best.

 

[Geri]

Recent report suggests 40,000 Venezuelans murdered by US sanctions. It’s a rerun of Chile basically isn’t it? Make the economy scream and then assist a fascist thug to power to ‘restore order’.

US sanctions on Venezuela 'responsible for tens of thousands of deaths'

I bet Maduro is regretting his donation to the Trump campaign now.

 

[gosub]

Russians have sent 3 and four pence

 

[yield]

The Macutazo: Timeline of an Absurd Military Adventure
May 5, 2020

In the hope of understanding the news of failed armed incursions allegedly led by a former Green Beret, let’s put some events together to see them in the light of what we really know

 

[Deadstick 1944]

Mercenary Confesses Failed Plot Was to Bring President Maduro to US - Global Research Looks like the US terrorists were trying to abduct Maduro back to the Reich,Maduro should put those Mercenary bastards in front of a firing squad.

(ed: Global Research is not a credible course. Try again)

 

[Deadstick 1944]

Mercenary Confesses Failed Plot Was to Bring President Maduro to US - Global Research Looks like the US terrorists were trying to abduct Maduro back to the Reich,Maduro should put those Mercenary bastards in front of a firing squad.

(ed: Global Research is not a credible course. Try again)

Will try again,this is one of the American terrorists captured in Venezuela.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Venezuela files claim to force Bank of England to hand over gold

Venezuela's central bank has made a legal claim to try to force the Bank of England to hand over €930 million ($1.02 billion) of gold so President Nicolas Maduro's government can fund its coronavirus response, according to the document submitted in a London court.

www.reuters.com

interesting situation here- a yard of gold that they cannot get their hands on due to sanctions - the UK and US administration really are a nest of wankers. In effect, the gold never moves from the BoE, just moves to another owner on the books.

 

[Flavour]

Venezuela gold: UK High Court rules against Nicolás Maduro

The High Court ruling means President Maduro will not gain access to gold stored at the Bank of England.

www.bbc.com

Not sure how important this really was to Maduro but another defeat, in any case.

 

[RTWL]

These collapses are because everybody wants to be the head figure, instead of building a society on reason. That is a stable base instead of lurching. Its a sad time for sure. In a region that is surely the closest to paradise; potentially.

People are (nobody specific meant here) stupid, in the sense that they are very short-termist. Not coming up with a good policy/plan to last even their own life-times. Ruling classes generally are brutal in their dealings. But they don't seem to last long because of it, and all this unjust upheaval is the result. And what goes before comes back around.

But people know this. All the best.

Oh ... so nothing to do with American interfearence then ... I mean WTAF?

 

[Humberto]

Dunno I've well taken my eye off it.

 

[elbows]

The Macutazo: Timeline of an Absurd Military Adventure
May 5, 2020

The BBC have done a piece on the clusterfuck that was the 'Bay of Piglets'.

'Bay of Piglets': A 'bizarre' plot to capture a president

How did exiled Venezuelans and former US Special Forces end up joining what looked from the outset like a suicide mission?

www.bbc.co.uk

It is a story that leaps straight out of a 20th Century playbook of Latin American conspiracies.

"It made the Bay of Pigs look like D-Day," quipped one commentator, referring to the failed US-financed invasion of Fidel Castro's Cuba in 1961. Operation Gideon is a staggering tale of hubris, incompetence and treachery. Eight men were killed by Venezuela's armed forces off the coastal town of Macuto. Dozens of others were captured and remain in jail in Caracas. Less than a handful escaped. And coinciding with the height of the coronavirus pandemic, it has attracted less attention outside the Americas than it otherwise might have done.

 

[spring-peeper]

Venezuela's foreign minister says Canada causing his country's collapse to 'take control' of its wealth

'Canada has been in the centre of these events and this means that they want to create the conditions in order to attack Venezuela, to invade Venezuela'

nationalpost.com

Venezuela is staggering in the face of a years-long power struggle, food shortages, hyper-inflation and an exodus of its citizens.

The country’s foreign minister says, Blame Canada.

Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza is part of Nicolas Maduro’s government, which most Western countries no longer recognize, but it does still control most of the country’s institutions. He was speaking through Zoom to a Canadian audience on Thursday, in an event organized by the left-leaning Canadian Foreign Policy Institute.

Canada and most other Western nations have backed Juan Guaidó, a former member of the country’s national assembly who declared himself the interim president in 2019 after Maduro’s re-election in what many say was a fraudulent vote.

In 2017, Canada helped to form the Lima Group, a group of countries, including most of the major countries in North and South America, to call for Maduro to step down and for free elections to be held in the country.

 

[Donald H]

It's a very familair pattern for Venezuela. The US destroys the small country's economy and demonizes the people's duly elected leader, then goes in to the small country on concocted humanitarian grounds so it can gain control of the victim's wealth.

Only the 21st. century has brought a change to the old status quo pattern. Large nuclear powers are also coming to the aid of future US victims because those large powers have interests in Venezuela too. Much the same as the US has worked it with Israel.

If not for China and Russia the US would have walked over Venequela long ago and installed their chosen puppet.

Hopefully that helps everybody understand the obvious!

 

[Streathamite]

From what little I know from a couple of years ago Maduro and his associates are completely inept when it comes to managing the economy. A combination of fantasy economics and cronyism, so that coupled with US interference and it's a wonder that anything still works at all.

They're not great, but ther real killers have been US sanctions and the collapzse in the price of oil.
I think the other point I would make is that the politics of Venezuela - like the po.litics of pretty much every Latin American country - can only be understood by applying rigid class struggle analysis and dialectics.
South America has much, much greater inequality than anywhere in europe, and the class system is much more netrenched and rigid.
Maduro and co, for all their faults, wre and are generally the workers' champions. Guaido is the puppet of los oligarcicos

 

[Donald H]

They're not great, but ther real killers have been US sanctions and the collapzse in the price of oil.
I think the ogther point I would make is that the politics of Venezuela - like the po.litics of pretty much every Latin American country - can only be understood by applying rigid class struggle analysis and dialectics.
South America has much, much greater inequality than anywhere in europe, and the class system is much more netrenched and rigid.
Maduro and co, for all their faults, wre and are generally the workers' champions. Guaido is the puppet of los oligarcicos

When a country is so oil rich as Venezuela, the collapse in oil prices doesn't make such a difference as to drive them into abject poverty. That's a bullshit talking point that's been dredged up by the US.

Venezuela is suffering US dirty tricks and interference because the US is determined to install the US's political choice to lead Venezuela. Period!!

 

[Streathamite]

When a country is so oil rich as Venezuela, the collapse in oil prices doesn't make such a difference as to drive them into abject poverty. That's a bullshit talking point that's been dredged up by the US.

Venezuela is suffering US dirty tricks and interference because the US is determined to install the US's political choice to lead Venezuela. Period!!

Nope, sorry, you're wrong (and South Americsan politicds is a specialism of mine, as I have family and loads of friends/contacts there). Thry key thing to remember is that venezuela's economy is massively, humonously dependent on oil, it accounts for 1/3rd of GDP and 80% of exports. Plus, the other 20% is agricultural, and that's pretty much 100% in the hands of the oligarcicos, who are the bitterest enemies of the Maduro regime.
Also, the regime had little by way of cash reserves, because under Chavez they opted to invest heavily in social and civic programmes for the workers and the poorest. The right thing to do IMHO, but they overdid it.

 

[Donald H]

Nope, sorry, you're wrong (and South Americsan politicds is a specialism of mine, as I have family and loads of friends/contacts there). Thry key thing to remember is that venezuela's economy is massively, humonously dependent on oil, it accounts for 1/3rd of GDP and 80% of exports. Plus, the other 20% is agricultural, and that's pretty much 100% in the hands of the oligarcicos, who are the bitterest enemies of the Maduro regime.
Also, the regime had little by way of cash reserves, because under Chavez they opted to invest heavily in social and civic programmes for the workers and the poorest. The right thing to do IMHO, but they overdid it.

Yeah sure Streath, and would you like me to believe that for all 40 US victims since WW2. Cuba is prospering now since it doesn't matter a lick what the US says and does anymore. China has moved in. I have a hunch that Venezuela is already on China's and Russia's 'hands-off' list. They'll do fine if the US doesn't get a chance to start bombing to save the people.

To hell with US sanctions, China is ready to take all Venezuela has to offer.

China Continued Buying Venezuelan Oil Despite U.S. Sanctions | OilPrice.com

Oil shipments from Venezuela to China continued even after the United States tightened the screws on Venezuelan oil exports last August

oilprice.com

Despite US sanctions!

 

[Streathamite]

Yeah sure Streath, and would you like me to believe that for all 40 US victims since WW2. Cuba is prospering now since it doesn't matter a lick what the US says and does anymore. China has moved in. I have a hunch that Venezuela is already on China's and Russia's 'hands-off' list. They'll do fine if the US doesn't get a chance to start bombing to save the people.

To hell with US sanctions, China is ready to take all Venezuela has to offer.

China Continued Buying Venezuelan Oil Despite U.S. Sanctions | OilPrice.com

Oil shipments from Venezuela to China continued even after the United States tightened the screws on Venezuelan oil exports last August

oilprice.com

Despite US sanctions!

You are seriously misreading me. I am as much, and as militantly against all US neo-imperialism, as anyone. In fact, I have a record of it on these very same boards, going back to 2001. Check out my posts if you doubt this - they're all there.
However, this should not blind us to the objective reality of Venezuela's situation.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah sure Streath, and would you like me to believe that for all 40 US victims since WW2. Cuba is prospering now since it doesn't matter a lick what the US says and does anymore. China has moved in. I have a hunch that Venezuela is already on China's and Russia's 'hands-off' list. They'll do fine if the US doesn't get a chance to start bombing to save the people.

To hell with US sanctions, China is ready to take all Venezuela has to offer.

China Continued Buying Venezuelan Oil Despite U.S. Sanctions | OilPrice.com

Oil shipments from Venezuela to China continued even after the United States tightened the screws on Venezuelan oil exports last August

oilprice.com

Despite US sanctions!

There were more than 40 victims of us imperialism at My Lai, don't know where you're getting your figures from but they're off by a factor of 10^5 or more

 

[Donald H]

You are seriously misreading me. I am as much, and as militantly against all US neo-imperialism, as anyone. In fact, I have a record of it on these very same boards, going back to 2001. Check out my posts if you doubt this - they're all there.
However, this should not blind us to the objective reality of Venezuela's situation.

So I"ve taken an interest in you Streath and I like you. I don't doubt your antiwar stance either.
But there's no denying the evidence presented in my link above that US sanctions against Venezuela are the primary reason they're suffering so much. Can any American (you're American?) get himself there on accepting that their country is killing people in Venezuela with sanctions on account of America's agenda of bringing Venezuela under US influence?

Here's a proposal for you to consider: If we were to take all of Venezuela's oil out of the equation, they would still be capable of survival at a moderate banana republic level if not for US sanctions. Venezuela would still have everything the rest of the banana republics have. Probably more in that they have the support of Cuba on their health care needs. That's something that puts an entirely different light on poverty! Right?

It's a pleasure talking to an American with such a rational perspective!

 

[Streathamite]

So I"ve taken an interest in you Streath and I like you. I don't doubt your antiwar stance either.
But there's no denying the evidence presented in my link above that US sanctions against Venezuela are the primary reason they're suffering so much. Can any American (you're American?) get himself there on accepting that their country is killing people in Venezuela with sanctions on account of America's agenda of bringing Venezuela under US influence?

Here's a proposal for you to consider: If we were to take all of Venezuela's oil out of the equation, they would still be capable of survival at a moderate banana republic level if not for US sanctions. Venezuela would still have everything the rest of the banana republics have. Probably more in that they have the support of Cuba on their health care needs. That's something that puts an entirely different light on poverty! Right?

It's a pleasure talking to an American with such a rational perspective!

Umm, I'm a Brit. I live in East London. As, I think, does Pickmans Model. I will reply to this post in more "forensic" detail, tomorrow, when I am less tired.
e2a: You may want to google 'streatham': it's where I lived when I chose this moniker

 

[spring-peeper]

Umm, I'm a Brit. I live in East London. As, I think, does Pickmans Model. I will reply to this post in more "forensic" detail, tomorrow, when I am less tired.
e2a: You may want to google 'streatham': it's where I lived when I chose this moniker

I resent the idea that his opinion of you meets his requirements.

I resent the idea that he can label us.

It reminds me of when he was trying to decide which of us he wished to engage, the rest went to the sit on his bench.

But, truly, why I don't like him is because he made a claim that "when Canada speaks, the world listens". No, they don't.

And to tie his claim, he used an advert that I haven't thought about in decades.

There is something off with this one.

 

[Streathamite]

I resent the idea that his opinion of you meets his requirements.

I resent the idea that he can label us.

It reminds me of when he was trying to decide which of us he wished to engage, the rest went to the sit on his bench.

But, truly, why I don't like him is because he made a claim that "when Canada speaks, the world listens". No, they don't.

And to tie his claim, he used an advert that I haven't thought about in decades.

There is something off with this one.

Yep, it smelled a tad fishy from the start. I've never known any canadian to make such a big, overt deal of their nationality, and his anti-US posts are simply too wildly OTT

 

[Donald H]

There were more than 40 victims of us imperialism at My Lai, don't know where you're getting your figures from but they're off by a factor of 10^5 or more

My Lai is in your head. The 40 US victims are countries invaded by the US since WW2. Commondreams.org has a story that states 37 but there has to be 3 more by now.

 

[Pickman's model]

My Lai is in your head. The 40 US victims are countries invaded by the US since WW2. Commondreams.org has a story that states 37 but there has to be 3 more by now.

so you want me to search all the way through a website with literally hundreds of stories on it looking for your one. provide a link to the story, pls

 

[Donald H]

I resent the idea that his opinion of you meets his requirements.

I resent the idea that he can label us.

It reminds me of when he was trying to decide which of us he wished to engage, the rest went to the sit on his bench.

But, truly, why I don't like him is because he made a claim that "when Canada speaks, the world listens". No, they don't.

And to tie his claim, he used an advert that I haven't thought about in decades.

There is something off with this one.

I was a bit dubious about using the EF Hutton line but that wasn't necessary because some got it!

It is entirely true that when Canada or Canadians talk, people listen. Mostly because of our close proximity to the 'land of the gun' and also because of the stark contrast to their evil.

And what are you? If you're a Brit then I have some ideas I would like to share with you!

 

[Donald H]

so you want me to search all the way through a website with literally hundreds of stories on it looking for your one. provide a link to the story, pls

What are you on about? The 40 I mentioned refers to US led wars since WW2 and it's especially significant in that it's not Russia.
Try calling up 37 U.S. wars since WW2 on commondreams.org if you're interested.