how come those wanting to discuss whether the showing of the cartoons was right or wrong keep falling back on this nonsense that the teacher told Muslims they could leave the class. is it because without that their stance is shown up for the piss poor one that it is. I.e., circumvent education for the religious sensibilities of some or their parents or others in the community you might hear about it. that is what you’re defending.
Terrorist attacks and beheadings in France
- Thread starter Spymaster
- Start date
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, just thought I'd take a stab at answering her question.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
You don't have to be a Muslim to see that they are racist caricatures of Arabs. How are big noses and turban somehow less offence than hook noses and skull caps?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Better hope he doesn’t wake up hungover and hand you your arse again then eh Spy?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes it is. And remember yesterday they were claiming Muslims were ‘ordered out’ of the class until the actual evidence suggested otherwise
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Because that’s exactly what was reported initially. I even put the caveat into the OP that it was early days etc. Now it seems he may not have done that as stridently as it appeared at first blush but it’s possible to row back from that somewhat and still believe that showing the cartoons and giving the Muslim kids the option of not viewing them wasn’t a great way to teach a mixed faith group.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Lol. You do know people can read the thread and see what you wrote don’t ya? The stridency was all yours (and others) by the way
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Would it have been ok to do it if there had been no Muslim kids in the class ?
That idea itself has problems, no?
bimble
floofy
Why? What is the problem with it? Its like putting a spoiler on a post so people can choose whether they want to see a thing or not. I really don't get what the problem is. You think the teacher was A BIG RACIST for giving kids the choice ? Just weird.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Also much has been made about the kids having to identify themselves, but how else could he do it? Not his place to tell people they're Muslim.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I'd say in a thread where the teacher has been in some respects 'victim blamed' and pre-judged on their actions, despite it looking to me more likely that they've tried their best to 'safeguard' as they can by giving kids the choice as to whether they see the images or not (does any report make this clear it was targeted to kids of a Muslim faith, simply openly?), that they are trying to deliver a piece of state curriculum is a pretty key 'shift' in framing.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yep. I was primarily reflecting on my own contributions to the thread.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't need to anymore - it's all there. He knows - as would anyone else reading this thread fresh. He has to make a noise now to hide it.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I have issues with the idea of pupils being put in a position where they have to choose to "opt out" of class.
Again, I don't know what the classroom culture in France is so how mundane or exceptional this would be. But in a British context I don't agree, for example, with parents being able to pull kids out of sex ed, or with "we're gonna dissect frogs, anyone who has a problem with that..." type scenarios either.
Content should be accessible to all the pupils.
Again, I don't know what the classroom culture in France is so how mundane or exceptional this would be. But in a British context I don't agree, for example, with parents being able to pull kids out of sex ed, or with "we're gonna dissect frogs, anyone who has a problem with that..." type scenarios either.
Content should be accessible to all the pupils.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I don't know what this means but it's certainly got a ring to it!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's a bone-ism for trendy vicars and their relentless sunday evening ping pong youth clubs as the answer to everything. And the IWCA.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It's clearly nonsense to accuse the victim of being racist, but (if reports that he invited the Muslim background students to self-identify for potential [self?] exclusion from the class are correct) this was/would undermine one of the central tenets of the French Republic's laïcité. The Republic so determined to turn them into free citizens, that it prescribes curriculum content that requires the option for them to be excluded from the learning experience.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I like how you now, two days later have a question mark after self.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Genuinely don't know and realise that I'm relying on press reporting...so yeah (for me) very much a ?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I'm not interested in the lesson planning shit. It's obvious there are different ways to teach the same subject. You can deal with a subject sensitively or offensively and clumsily...
There's no evidence of the latter. People and sorry to say, you one of them, were jumping to that conclusion.
The late teacher denied he told muslims they should leave.
The scum that killed him was not a pupil.
There have allegedly been lies spread about what he was actually teaching and showing.
So what's left to argue about is the line, the principle of special treatment for religious sensabilities, the defence of a cecular albeit flawed education, the giving credence to fenatics.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I was thinking about this yesterday. I'm not sure. I think probably yes given that my objection is identifying a minority group in a classroom and treating them differently to everyone else. It's certainly worthy of discussion though.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Wasn't before though was it? I reckon that you quote confidently said numerous times - even after being pulled up on it - that this was what had happened.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Don't worry, you didn't. If my position was changed even slightly it was by Athos. You didn't have a clue what was going on in the latter part of the evening. Have some black coffee and a nap.
Course kids opt out of stuff. The Plymouth Bretherin kids at my school eat their lunch separately and didn't go to the nominally C of E assemblies. The frog dissection.
The goal posts on this are sliding all over the place.
First he ordered them out.
Then he made them identify themselves.
Now it's well maybe he shouldn't have asked at all
FFS have a word with yourselves.
The goal posts on this are sliding all over the place.
First he ordered them out.
Then he made them identify themselves.
Now it's well maybe he shouldn't have asked at all
FFS have a word with yourselves.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, when relying on initial press reports, it was clearly wrong to say what happened with certainty. My present concern would be for those French teachers who are expected to deliver this particular topic in the curriculum.
bimble
floofy
Ideally yes, but what do you do if (like there were at my school) theres a bunch of plymouth brethren kids, you can't force them to attend sex ed and you don't just take it off the curriculum either.
"Content should be accessible to all pupils' sounds right but in effect would mean less content, everything narrowed down.
Coming from a 'minority culture' or whatever you'd call it and attending a normal state school does come with a bit of awkwardness, like at a minimum having to ask what the school dinner mush is made of, thats just how it is, doesn't mean everyone at the school has to eat kosher does it, schools aren't some perfect community separate from everything else.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're supposed that say that you're sorry that i got the impression from your posts etc - make the fault mine.
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