Tea Party values are Hippy values

[moon23]

http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/10/11/the-electric-tea-party-acid-test/?singlepage=true

Something strange is going on in the US psyche, there seems to be an Individualistic affinity amongst the Tea Party and Hippies. What do people think of this article, the chart is interesting and so are the comments.

 

[Fruitloop]

There has always been a gap between the political values people have and the political allegances people make. Some related stuff in yesterday's George Monbiot column here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2010/oct/11/left-values-progressive-self-interest

 

[Santino]

Hippies were never anything other than self-interested twats.

 

[Random]

The person who constructed that chart must be smoking crack.

 

[Geri]

It's well known that 'bums' tend to believe that human nature is innate.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Why are bums and hoboes on opposite sides of the chart?

 

[Santino]

The person who constructed that chart must be smoking crack.

He seems to have a problem with black people too.

 

[Random]

Is this one of your nutty right wing friends, moon23?

 

[kyser_soze]

All that post, and the comments that follow, shows is that hippies are cunts. Take this one:

4. Old Guy
I was an original Hippie. I look at your pictures of “Hippie” protesters and can tell you those ain’t Hippies. Those are campus politicos. While they were protesting and preaching Marxist revolution, we were getting high and laughing at them as the other side of the same bogus coin. If anything we were pissed that the politicos were bringing heat down on us and making our lives unpleasant. They never converted us to anything. The Original Hippies moved on about 1970 and the wannabes in Hippie fashions bought at the local hip clothing store got converted to Marxism and became rabid Democrats.

I went from no party to foolishly voting for Carter because he seemed like a good guy to being a Libertarian who voted for Reagan in the 70s. I have always tolerated the Social Conservatives and Christian Right in the GOP because I understand that you need 51% to get anything done, but I have defined myself as a Libertarian since 1978. I have often bit my tongue as I listened to Christian Conservatives preach their Victorian BS because it is useless to debate people whose minds are made up.

I can tell you that all the Tea Partiers I know are genuine Hippies who once had long hair, smoked dope, and lived in Madison, WI, one of the great Hippie centers. And most male Hippies I know have been NRA life members since the 70s too. Hippies represented the ultimate expression of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. We knew that we were the true expression of the American Dream.

Were still here, you just can’t recognize us in our disguises. We were born in the suburbs, we returned to the suburbs to spawn, and we are still here costumed as suburban parents. We haven’t changed all that much, just our uniforms look different.

See? Hippy scum.

 

[_angel_]

What are bums and hobos and why are they different??

 

[fogbat]

Hobos travel and work, while bums don't work, IIRC.

 

[kyser_soze]

Yup. Hobos are like travelling odd-job types. IIRC they also used to be called 'Okies' during the depression, altho I might be confused on that point.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can't be bothered to read the article. The chart is utter bollocks.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Yup. Hobos are like travelling odd-job types. IIRC they also used to be called 'Okies' during the depression, altho I might be confused on that point.

Yes 'Okies' were sharecroppers and itinerant farm labourers from Oklahoma who had to leave the land and during the "Dust Bowl" when the drought killed off all the crops. It was contemporaneous with the Depression and part of its cause. I get it now.

 

[Blagsta]

lol at that chart

 

[Crispy]

The EU is practically Maoist

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I can see it in one respect. They both want to use services without having to pay for them.

 

[elbows]

That chart is a really fucked up version of the political compass stuff (which isnt perfect either).

 

[moon23]

Why are bums and hoboes on opposite sides of the chart?

(I include “hobos” and “bums” on the chart because the distinction between these two classic types illuminates the nature of the spectrum. In case you’re thinking that hobos and bums are just different words for the same thing, note: A hobo is an itinerant laborer who chooses homelessness because of the freedom it affords him, but who is proud of his self-sufficiency and will take temporary jobs to support himself wherever possible. A bum on the other hand is someone who is poor because he simply refuses to work or support himself, and instead is unashamed to survive on handouts and other people’s generosity. Because hobos celebrate individualism, freedom, independence and their own self-worth, they occupy the “sweet spot” at the bottom left corner of the spectrum, along with hippies and Tea Partiers. But since bums are essentially parasites on society and who survive on either formally or informally doled-out welfare, and often blame others for their predicament, they rightfully belong near the other end of the spectrum.)

 

[moon23]

Is this one of your nutty right wing friends, moon23?

No, not a friend of mine I just thought it was interesting.

 

[elbows]

So anyways using the political spectrum stuff, the Tea Party if taken at face value belong in the bottom right quadrant, libertarian propaganda confuses some who are in the bottom left quadrant into supporting them, and the likely reality is if these chumps ever got into power would be the usual top right quadrant.

 

[moon23]

That chart is a really fucked up version of the political compass stuff (which isnt perfect either).

It's just looking at it through a different axis. My problem is the Y axis in this chart isn't very clear, does he mean by innate that people are naturally rather than socially constructed? How does this fit in with the idea of Natural rights or Law?

 

[teuchter]

My American Tea-Party work colleague likes to tell us about how he was a hippy when he was young. He seems to feel this represents a reversal of his political views but when he explains his motives for becoming a "hippy" you can kind of see a connection.

 

[kyser_soze]

It's just looking at it through a different axis. My problem is the Y axis in this chart isn't very clear, does he mean by innate that people are naturally rather than socially constructed? How does this fit in with the idea of Natural rights or Law?

Jesus, you're linking to shit graphs that you don't understand.

They're referring to the idea that human behaviour is either innate (i.e. determined in some way by genes or other factor) i.e. 'human nature', or socially constructed - that we behave the way we do through learning via our interaction with others, and there is no deterministic element. It's simplistic nonsense at best and pernicious lying at worst.

 

[moon23]

So anyways using the political spectrum stuff, the Tea Party if taken at face value belong in the bottom right quadrant, libertarian propaganda confuses some who are in the bottom left quadrant into supporting them, and the likely reality is if these chumps ever got into power would be the usual top right quadrant.

Newsweek recently claimed that the Tea Party has an “anarchist streak.” I find this interesting, because the Newsweek writer understood that both Tea Partiers and anarchists are on the same end of the “Government Control” axis, but couldn’t grasp that, viewed from a different orientation, Tea Partiers are at the opposite end of the “Human Nature” axis from anarchists, who want to construct an (impossible) law-free utopia based on the assumption that people can change and control themselves in the absence of any authority whatsoever.

This is what I don't get, how can you both be against government control and argue that you need laws? Who enforces the laws if not the government? Well possibly private indivduals directly through the courts I guess.

 

[Blagsta]

It's just looking at it through a different axis. My problem is the Y axis in this chart isn't very clear, does he mean by innate that people are naturally rather than socially constructed? How does this fit in with the idea of Natural rights or Law?

It's a false dichotomy. Human nature is both innate and socially constructed. In fact, it makes no sense to seperate it like that.

 

[moon23]

Jesus, you're linking to shit graphs that you don't understand.

They're referring to the idea that human behaviour is either innate (i.e. determined in some way by genes or other factor) i.e. 'human nature', or socially constructed - that we behave the way we do through learning via our interaction with others, and there is no deterministic element. It's simplistic nonsense at best and pernicious lying at worst.

I'm just being open and trying to ensure I understand what the chart means. I took it as you do to mean that behaviour is either innate (human nature) or socially constructed, but just wanted to check that was the right reading.

 

[moon23]

It's a false dichotomy. Human nature is both innate and socially constructed. In fact, it makes no sense to seperate it like that.

I agree with you on that

 

[Casually Red]

a prescient lesson from 1970s californa

 

[kyser_soze]

It's a false dichotomy. Human nature is both innate and socially constructed. In fact, it makes no sense to seperate it like that.

Mannnn, you need to get in touch with yourself! Only commies and atheists think The Lord didn't make us all as we are before we popped out into the world.