Taliban attack army school in Pakistan

[hot air baboon]

given half their parents are not going to be in the army anyway, a majority's not that hard to obtain.

...true if pedantic...( but truly nightmarish stuff about the wives of officers being torched with petrol infront of the pupils...)

 

[ViolentPanda]

What was sickening was the media ramming microphones into the faces of students and parents who were obviously in deep shock.
Then came the 'blame game' how could the authorities let this happen?
Whey personally, I feel you can't guarantee protection from these people, the authorities can do their best but there are too many of them, ranging from isolated people with mental health problems, to well organised terror groups protected by a sophisticated cell structure and a myriad of would be martyrs in between.
Fun times ahead.

The Pakistani couple who took me in described Pakistan as being "wild", except in the cities and the larger towns, because there weren't enough police to constitute a proper "police service", and although there were enough soldiers, their officers were inevitably corrupt. It's not the case of "authority letting things happen", but a case of there not really being a national authority worth a fuck to be able to stop things happening in the first place. It's easy for "terrorists" to set up shop in an environment where being policed is highly unlikely.

 

[Pickman's model]

...true if pedantic...( but truly nightmarish stuff about the wives of officers being torched with petrol infront of the pupils...)

 

[Diamond]

you shitferbrains cunt. not only are you a day late to this particular battle of wits but you've also come unarmed.

You do understand that what happened yesterday is not about you, right?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I can understand rage and the feeling of impotence, but to visit it on children or any other defenceless group who have no bearing or influence on the actions of those the perpetrators want to hurt is nowt short of sadistic murdering cowardice,par the course for most terrorist organisations.
Go for the security forces, the politicians etc,but hitting the innocent is the lowest of the low.

Conversely, it's often effective in the short-term, insofar as making the state shift resources from attacking terrorists to defending against them. In the longer term, however, it's much more likely to cost them public sympathy (such as it is) and to actively encourage public antipathy. After all, some of the public may now think "if they can kill those children so easily, what's stopping them from killing mine if it suits them?".

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think that the deliberate targeting of children can quite easily be regarded primitive and uncivilised.

Stop being a fucking berk.

Is the state of Israel "primitive and uncivilised"? Of course, they always leave an element of plausible deniability with regard to their bombing of schools and their sniping at kids, but while they may be barbaric in their tactics, they're neither uncivilised nor primitive. What they are, is "people acting according to strategy", which is exactly what the "primitive and uncivilised" militants have done at this school.
Rather than name-calling, how about devoting some thought to why the militants did what they did, or why the state of Israel does what it does? It's far more fruitful.

 

[coley]

The Pakistani couple who took me in described Pakistan as being "wild", except in the cities and the larger towns, because there weren't enough police to constitute a proper "police service", and although there were enough soldiers, their officers were inevitably corrupt. It's not the case of "authority letting things happen", but a case of there not really being a national authority worth a fuck to be able to stop things happening in the first place. It's easy for "terrorists" to set up shop in an environment where being policed is highly unlikely.

My point is, put simply,the authorities have to be lucky all of the time,the terrorists only need to get lucky once.
Even if we discount a lot of the guff that's generated by the security services in order to bring in more and more restrictive laws, it's obvious that there is quite a number of people who would like to hurt us and in the most destructive and gruesome ways possible.
And the fact they don't mind dying in the process makes it even more worrying, we are going to see a lot more incidents like the one yesterday and Sydney the day before.
Christ, dozens killed by suicide bombers practically on a daily basis and it doesn't even make the news.
So, if your a terrorist, you look for more 'newsworthy' targets.
ViolentPanda
Rather than name-calling, how about devoting some thought to why the militants did what they did, or why the state of Israel does what it does? It's far more fruitful.

They do it to Instil terror, and destroy opposition.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You point scoring prick. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

To put it brutally, they're dead, and nothing, no amount of argument or hand-wringing, will bring them back.
What's better, to cry "what about the children?", or to try to find out the whys and wherefores of this massacre so that it can be prevented from happening again? Personally, I'd rather the latter. That way it's possible no-one will have to ask "what about the children?" in the future.

 

[ViolentPanda]

My point is, put simply,the authorities have to be lucky all of the time,the terrorists only need to get lucky once.
Even if we discount a lot of the guff that's generated by the security services in order to bring in more and more restrictive laws, it's obvious that there is quite a number of people who would like to hurt us and in the most destructive and gruesome ways possible.
And the fact they don't mind dying in the process makes it even more worrying, we are going to see a lot more incidents like the one yesterday and Sydney the day before.
Christ, dozens killed by suicide bombers practically on a daily basis and it doesn't even make the news.
So, if your a terrorist, you look for more 'newsworthy' targets.

In Pakistan, there's the added complication that sometimes the security services are aiding and abetting the terrorists for ideological and/or economic reasons.

They do it to Instil terror, and destroy opposition.

Of course. That's my point. It isn't blind savagery, it's strategic behaviour.

 

[FNG]

one thing is for sure, more children will die in the name of the children that died at peshwar. Just as those at peshwar died in the name of those that died across waziristan.The downward spiral will continue because neither side has the ability or political will to alleviate the inequality in pk society which is the root cause of this conflict.

Just a few weeks ago Zarb E Azb was winding down having been hailed as a success that had dealt radicalisation a mortal blow, now the PM is talking about unleashing the full unrestrained force of Zarb E Azb in the Frontier provinces ruled out possibilities of any talks insisting on a military solution that has so far eluded them.

I would like to end this post on a positive note, so heres a picture of solidarity from the people of india to the peoples of pakistan, brothers may we one day find our way out of this madness.

 

[Pickman's model]

You do understand that what happened yesterday is not about you, right?

you do understand the chain of posts culminating in the reply you quote, right?

 

[Diamond]

So that's a no then...

 

[coley]

In Pakistan, there's the added complication that sometimes the security services are aiding and abetting the terrorists for ideological and/or economic reasons.



Of course. That's my point. It isn't blind savagery, it's strategic behaviour.

Strategic behaviour it may be, but for the west to condone ( or turn a blind eye) to Israel's behaviour is totally inexcusable and acts as a very strong recruiting Sgt for the jihadists.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Of course. That's my point. It isn't blind savagery, it's strategic behaviour.

They don't have access to the military might of the Pakistani army, so they get their revenge using much simpler weaponry in more calculated butchery. As Martin Amis called it, Horrorism, instead of mere terrorism. Burning teachers alive in front of 11 year olds before pumping as many bullets into them as they can.

 

[Pickman's model]

So that's a no then...

i am sorry you don't understand the chain of events. are you saying i don't recognise what happened yesterday was vile atrocious or cowardly? e2a: if you're interested enough to reply to me in future pls quote or tag in future to avoid giving the unintended impession of being a sly wanker.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They don't have access to the military might of the Pakistani army, so they get their revenge using much simpler weaponry in more calculated butchery. As Martin Amis called it, Horrorism, instead of mere terrorism. Burning teachers alive in front of 11 year olds before pumping as many bullets into them as they can.

And why did they do that? Is it because they're primitive, untermenschen for whom no horror is too vile? Or did they do that because they know that to commit such horrific acts ensures that their actions (and therefore their cause) receives a great deal of publicity? As I said, it's strategic behaviour, whatever the notoriously anti-Islam Martin Amis has to say on the subject.

 

[D'wards]

Oh jesus, you're not shitgift, are you?

Trashburton over here...

 

[coley]

And why did they do that? Is it because they're primitive, untermenschen for whom no horror is too vile? Or did they do that because they know that to commit such horrific acts ensures that their actions (and therefore their cause) receives a great deal of publicity? As I said, it's strategic behaviour, whatever the notoriously anti-Islam Martin Amis has to say on the subject.

untermenschen or primitive aren't accurate descriptions,neither is bearded nutjobs,but I do struggle to find a term to describe people who will slaughter anyone who resists their determination to impose their skewed belief system on others, ditto the Israeli state and their determination to annexe other people's land because of an equally skewed belief system.

 

[krtek a houby]

what about the children? your first post on this thread and you use it to chuck round insults and prating platitudes. have you nothing more to say?

Gods forbid we should be bombarded by insults and platitudes. Impotent rage; will that do?

Is there anything we can do over here, besides voice our concerns? Is there a charity? A protest? Vigils, boycotts, anything?

 

[Pickman's model]

Gods forbid we should be bombarded by insults and platitudes. Impotent rage; will that do?

Is there anything we can do over here, besides voice our concerns? Is there a charity? A protest? Vigils, boycotts, anything?

probably. but i'm not the person to ask.

 

[ViolentPanda]

untermenschen or primitive aren't accurate descriptions,neither is bearded nutjobs,but I do struggle to find a term to describe people who will slaughter anyone who resists their determination to impose their skewed belief system on others, ditto the Israeli state and their determination to annexe other people's land because of an equally skewed belief system.

There's a very simple word. Zealots.

 

[krtek a houby]

To put it brutally, they're dead, and nothing, no amount of argument or hand-wringing, will bring them back.
What's better, to cry "what about the children?", or to try to find out the whys and wherefores of this massacre so that it can be prevented from happening again? Personally, I'd rather the latter. That way it's possible no-one will have to ask "what about the children?" in the future.

Fair enough; I fear it will happen again and again, though. Questions have been asked throughout history why things happen and can we stop it. Lessons are never learned, though.

 

[goldenecitrone]

And why did they do that? Is it because they're primitive, untermenschen for whom no horror is too vile? Or did they do that because they know that to commit such horrific acts ensures that their actions (and therefore their cause) receives a great deal of publicity? As I said, it's strategic behaviour, whatever the notoriously anti-Islam Martin Amis has to say on the subject.

You are agreeing with him. Horrorism receives lots of publicity and creates a sense of horror at such despicable acts.

 

[Dogsauce]

'Shock and awe', isn't it? If it doesn't grab people's attention then it hasn't worked. It says 'Fear us, there is nothing we won't do'.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You are agreeing with him. Horrorism receives lots of publicity and creates a sense of horror at such despicable acts.

Not really. Amis doesn't attribute such actions to long-term strategic behaviour. His view is more toward such actions as attempts to achieve short-term tactical objectives. This isn't really consonant with the history of most terrorism committed under the (often inaccurately applied) label of "Islamism", which since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan has been about bringing about specific change, both within the ummah and without.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'Shock and awe', isn't it? If it doesn't grab people's attention then it hasn't worked. It says 'Fear us, there is nothing we won't do'.

What it also says, to people who might have reason to dislike or even hate the state (and in the tribal territories, that's a majority of the population), is "support us, there's nothing we won't do to bring these people down".

 

[scifisam]

Is the state of Israel "primitive and uncivilised"? Of course, they always leave an element of plausible deniability with regard to their bombing of schools and their sniping at kids, but while they may be barbaric in their tactics, they're neither uncivilised nor primitive. What they are, is "people acting according to strategy", which is exactly what the "primitive and uncivilised" militants have done at this school.
Rather than name-calling, how about devoting some thought to why the militants did what they did, or why the state of Israel does what it does? It's far more fruitful.

Are you saying that Pakistani officials were hiding people in the school?

Or what? I don't actually know.

You seem to be saying that this was a revenge attack - some bastard had his kid (or his nephew, someone close and young) killed by some other bastards, and in response he killed a load of kids belonging to the bastards he blamed or at least close enough to them to make them worry.

And then tons more kids will be killed.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you saying that Pakistani officials were hiding people in the school?

Or what? I don't actually know.

You seem to be saying that this was a revenge attack - some bastard had his kid (or his nephew, someone close and young) killed by some other bastards, and in response he killed a load of kids belonging to the bastards he blamed or at least close enough to them to make them worry.

And then tons more kids will be killed.

Given you've completely misread what I've said, "or what? I don't actually know" is probably the only relevant sentence in your post.
Allow me to simplify things for you. States and terrorists will always find a way to justify their actions, however barbaric those actions are, and they commit those actions not because they're raging uncontrollable mad dogs, but because they make rational assessments of what they can get away with, and how their actions serve their strategic aims.

 

[Pickman's model]

So that's a no then...

do you understand what happened yesterday? 5 posts on this thread and not one of them saying what an atrocious, vile, cowardly attack it was. instead you've used 4 of the 5 to try to score point against me and the other one compared the trajectory of this thread to the sydney one. strange, given your affectations here, that you should be so silent.

 

[scifisam]

Given you've completely misread what I've said, "or what? I don't actually know" is probably the only relevant sentence in your post.
Allow me to simplify things for you. States and terrorists will always find a way to justify their actions, however barbaric those actions are, and they commit those actions not because they're raging uncontrollable mad dogs, but because they make rational assessments of what they can get away with, and how their actions serve their strategic aims.

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a reference to you.