Suarez gets 8 match ban

[Lo Siento.]

Address the following points 'revol68' that Evra is apparently a Spanish speaker, yet he mistranslates a word he should understand ?, if has mistranslated that, why should we take as fact everything that he is translating and then giving as evidence ?
Also, he says to the ref during the game that he has been called a ''blah blah'' so was he mistaken at that point ? and then at what point did he admit to mistranslating it ?, after he had heard what Suarez version was and after there was no video evidence forthcoming ?

Also would Evra had been found guilty by a court/panel/board that had a higher proof of burden than the English FA ?, who apparently find 99.5% of all cases put before it as guilty.

Shocking. Non-native speaker of a language mistranslates something, that has never happened before, ever.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Fuck the tribalism of United v Liverpool for a minute and think about how you are justifying a racist prick and spreading lies and falsehood in order to do so. Lies and falsehoods that all carry a none to subtle subtext of chips on shoulders and uppity blacks.

A subtext that the guy abusing Tom Adeyemi, or the the Chelsea fans singing "you know what you are", or the guy at Anfield making monkey signs apparently did not miss.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Shocking. Non-native speaker of a language mistranslates something, that has never happened before, ever.

Given the context in which it was said, I would contend that he did not really mistranslate it at all. The spirit of the word was there.

 

[trampie]

Shocking. Non-native speaker of a language mistranslates something, that has never happened before, ever.

Exactly.

 

[Deareg]

Exactly.

All the questions and points that you are raising have been addressed in the FA report, There is a link to it somewhere in this thread.

 

[agricola]

Given the context in which it was said, I would contend that he did not really mistranslate it at all. The spirit of the word was there.

Which is of course why Suarez was found guilty, and the point that the kopites and their "Luis is a nice boy, really, please forget about the biting thing, the cheating and the general twattishness" allies keep trying to ignore.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I feel embarrassed for anyone trying to defend Suarez, tbh - Dalgliesh, Trampie, the Uruguayan president. Muppets, the lot of them.

 

[trampie]

I feel embarrassed for anyone trying to defend Suarez, tbh - Dalgliesh, Trampie, the Uruguayan president. Muppets, the lot of them.

Im not defending Suarez, im passing comment on the lack of evidence, the accusers history and the low standard of proof required by the FA panel for a guilty verdict thats all.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Im not defending Suarez, im passing comment on the lack of evidence, the accusers history and the low standard of proof required by the FA panel for a guilty verdict thats all.

Well I and a few others on this thread have you at a disadvantage. See, I've read the report.

It is, in my judgement, an extremely fair, balanced and thorough report. Do you disagree? If so, can you show me a particular point that they got wrong?

 

[agricola]

Im not defending Suarez, im passing comment on the lack of evidence, the accusers history and the low standard of proof required by the FA panel for a guilty verdict thats all.

You are defending Suarez though, by perpetuating these myths. Suarez was found guilty largely because of his own evidence, which was supported by what the other witnesses had said (including employees of the RS). He would probably have been found guilty even if the standard of proof required was beyond reasonable doubt - unless you believe Luis that he used the words he used in a friendly way towards someone he was having a row with.

 

[trampie]

Well I and a few others on this thread have you at a disadvantage. See, I've read the report.

So have i, that is why i ask would Suarez had been found guilty by a court/panel/board that had a higher proof of burden than the English FA ?,

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So what is your judgement of the way that Suarez lied to the tribunal? Or the way that Evra's story was entirely consistent with the available evidence? Do you find Suarez in any way a credible witness, or does he come across as a billy-bullshitter who's guilty as sin?

 

[agricola]

So have i, that is why i ask would Suarez had been found guilty by a court/panel/board that had a higher proof of burden than the English FA ?,

Do you think he said "Por que, negro?" to Evra in a friendly, conciliatory way?

 

[Deareg]

A reason the conviction rate is so high might have something to do with the amount of high definition TV cameras at each football match

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A reason the conviction rate is so high might have something to do with the amount of high definition TV cameras at each football match

Stop bringing facts into this.

 

[The39thStep]

Except I mentioned two other aspects, didn't I? He could also be, for example, a white person without an obvious populist reason to support Suarez, or perhaps somebody with a professional knowledge of the nuances of language and context. So your point is utter bollocks, based on deliberately misinterpreting what I said.

And whilst I only know a handful of Uruguayans, my partner is from the culturally almost identical Argentina so I'm guesing I'm a bit closer to understanding cultural nuance in Uruguay than you are. Not that matters, when the case is so utterly cut and dried.

In the sense that I am not going out with someone from Argentina yes you are. But in the sense of anyones elses opinion being inferior to yours because they are not going out with someone from Argentina then no. Argentina's political history and therefore culture is not identical at all.

 

[trampie]

Do you think he said "Por que, negro?" to Evra in a friendly, conciliatory way?

It is up to the court to prove guilt, one should not have to prove innocence, one party thought it was meant nastily and one party said it wasnt meant nastily, they basically took one mans word over another mans word.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Linguistically at least, Argentina and Uruguay are extremely similar. They both speak a very particular form of Spanish.

 

[trampie]

So what is your judgement of the way that Suarez lied to the tribunal? Or the way that Evra's story was entirely consistent with the available evidence? Do you find Suarez in any way a credible witness, or does he come across as a billy-bullshitter who's guilty as sin?

What lies did Suarez tell the tribunal ?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What lies did Suarez tell the tribunal ?

Ah, so you haven't read the report. Thought as much.

 

[The Octagon]

Wonder who the lucky 0.5 percent were?

Truly they must rejoice at having bested the evil English FA (there you go Trampie, you can have a nice wank over that).

 

[agricola]

It is up to the court to prove guilt, one should not have to prove innocence, one party thought it was meant nastily and one party said it wasnt meant nastily, they basically took the mans word over another mans word.

Surely the fact that they were having an argument at the time might back up one side rather than the other?

 

[trampie]

Ah, so you haven't read the report. Thought as much.

Yes i have, here is an example Evra withdrew the accusation of being called a certain word as reported in paragraph 272 and Evra withdrew the accusation of being called a certain word 'at least ten times' in paragraphs 279-281.
Now what lies are you stating that Suarez told the tribunal ?

 

[agricola]

Yes i have, here is an example Evra withdrew the accusation of being called a certain word as reported in paragraph 272 and Evra withdrew the accusation of being called a certain word 'at least ten times' in paragraphs 279-281.
Now what lies are you stating that Suarez told the tribunal ?

"I only called Evra black to try and calm the situation down" is probably quite a good one. (edit) So too is "I only pinched Evra's arm to try and calm the situation down".

 

[The39thStep]

Address the following points 'revol68' that Evra is apparently a Spanish speaker, yet he mistranslates a word he should understand ?, if has mistranslated that, why should we take as fact everything that he is translating and then giving as evidence ?
Also, he says to the ref during the game that he has been called a ''blah blah'' so was he mistaken at that point ? and then at what point did he admit to mistranslating it ?, after he had heard what Suarez version was and after there was no video evidence forthcoming ?

Also would Suarez had been found guilty by a court/panel/board that had a higher proof of burden than the English FA ?, who apparently find 99.5% of all cases put before it as guilty.

As unrelaible a witness as Evra has been in the past doesn't mean that we should always say that he is an unreliable. the incident happened. Time to move on on that.

My only beef is when a) people pretty much make a case for total character assasination ie because they have been in the press forsome thing else this is evidence that they are racsit as many have done with both Terry and Suarez b) this one frain of racist behaviour makes them next to the Klu Klus Klan and c) the jonny wop are racist brigade

Personally i don't particularly like Evra but not for the reason that he made a complaint against Suarez's language and I like Terry as a player but if he was to be found guilty I would still like him as a player but would support what ever punishment he got.

If you are that keen on testing out the level of proof in our courts report the Suarez incident as a racially motivated offence as someone (not Ferdinand ) did with Terry?

 

[The39thStep]

Linguistically at least, Argentina and Uruguay are extremely similar. They both speak a very particular form of Spanish.

Well I 'll be blowed

 

[trampie]

Surely the fact that they were having an argument at the time might back up one side rather than the other?

No, as it could give a reason for the accuser to make allegations [original allegations were later withdrawn in this case], it doesnt prove anything, which is the whole point.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well I 'll be blowed

Language patterns follow deeper historical and cultural patterns. The contention that Argentinian and Uruguayan cultures are very different doesn't stand up.

And neither does your absurd 'johnny wop' bollocks.

 

[trampie]

As unrelaible a witness as Evra has been in the past doesn't mean that we should always say that he is an unreliable. the incident happened. Time to move on on that.

My only beef is when a) people pretty much make a case for total character assasination ie because they have been in the press forsome thing else this is evidence that they are racsit as many have done with both Terry and Suarez b) this one frain of racist behaviour makes them next to the Klu Klus Klan and c) the jonny wop are racist brigade

Personally i don't particularly like Evra but not for the reason that he made a complaint against Suarez's language and I like Terry as a player but if he was to be found guilty I would still like him as a player but would support what ever punishment he got.

If you are that keen on testing out the level of proof in our courts report the Suarez incident as a racially motivated offence as someone (not Ferdinand ) did with Terry?

Evra's claims should still be investigated but if the case boils down to one word against another, then in that senario do you go with somebody that might be deemed as an unreliable witness.

 

[agricola]

No, as it could give a reason for the accuser to make allegations [original allegations were later ammended], it doesnt prove anything, which is the whole point.

Still not defending Suarez, I see.

At the risk of wasting more keystrokes, the point is that what Suarez was saying in his evidence was not credible, unless you believe that repeated gestures - the pinch, the hand on the back of Evra's head after the ref had spoken to both, the words exchanged between the two - were an effort to calm Evra down. If you dont believe what Suarez said about why he said something, then the only position left is to find him guilty.