Suarez gets 8 match ban

[littlebabyjesus]

What's wrong with that? An 8 game ban is excessive just for saying something - whatever it is.

I don't agree. If he'd said something like 'fuck you, you stupid fucking nigger', I would say eight games off would have been lenient. That 'negrito' is not synonymous with 'nigger' saves him somewhat, but there's no 'just saying something' where the intent is nasty, ignorant racism, imo.

 

[twistedAM]

What's wrong with that? An 8 game ban is excessive just for saying something - whatever it is.

Really? If eight games is the number they've come up with for racist behaviour, I think that's fair enough. Players have to set examples to fans and that's why i don't think it's that extreme.
Sure, you can argue about how the decision was made and Liverpool's reaction but all I'm saying is it seems a fair amount for the charge.

 

[Maggot]

I don't agree. If he'd said something like 'fuck you, you stupid fucking nigger', I would say eight games off would have been lenient. That 'negrito' is not synonymous with 'nigger' saves him somewhat, but there's no 'just saying something' where the intent is nasty, ignorant racism, imo.

There are worse things than racist comments - punching someone for example. Sticks and stones etc. How long do you get banned for a punch?

Really? If eight games is the number they've come up with for racist behaviour, I think that's fair enough. Players have to set examples to fans and that's why i don't think it's that extreme.

If none of the fans could hear what he said - then how can that be a bad example to them? If Evra hadn't played the race card then none of us would have any idea what he said.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Again, I do not agree. IMO, racist abuse - properly nasty racist abuse - is far worse than punching someone.

 

[strung out]

If none of the fans could hear what he said - then how can that be a bad example to them? If Evra hadn't played the race card then none of us would have any idea what he said.

i'm sorry, but the whole idea that by reporting what he took to be racist insults, evra is somehow 'playing the race card' is really fucking nasty imo.

that whole phrase has got really nasty connotations and is used frequently by racists to make out that the target of their insults should just 'get over it'

 

[Maggot]

i'm sorry, but the whole idea that by reporting what he took to be racist insults, evra is somehow 'playing the race card' is really fucking nasty imo.

Do you really think Evra was upset by what he heard? Players get badly insulted all the time, by fans and opposing players and are usually unaffected by it. Evra only reported it to get Suarez into trouble IMO.

 

[Deareg]

I reckon Evra is the racist and only reported Suarez because he hates whites.

 

[TruXta]

I reckon Evra is the racist and only reported Suarez because he hates whites mixed-race people.

FTFY.

 

[strung out]

Do you really think Evra was upset by what he heard? Players get badly insulted all the time, by fans and opposing players and are usually unaffected by it. Evra only reported it to get Suarez into trouble IMO.

you're right, players do get insulted all the time, but not often racist abuse (not anymore thankfully), and evra's got every right to be upset by racist abuse thrown designed to wind him up.

 

[Deareg]

FTFY.

It was common knowledge when I was growing up that blacks hated mixed race people even more than they hated whites, so this is even more evidence that it is Evra who is to blame.

 

[TruXta]

It was common knowledge when I was growing up that blacks hated mixed race people even more than they hated whites, so this is even more evidence that it is Evra who is to blame.

My work here is done.

 

[Deareg]

My work here is done.

Was that sudden whisp of smoke you disappearing?

 

[twistedAM]

There are worse things than racist comments - punching someone for example. Sticks and stones etc. How long do you get banned for a punch?

Great.

Racism now equals sticks and stones.

 

[TruXta]

Was that sudden whisp of smoke you disappearing?

Could be. TBH I can't be arsed with this debate anymore (not just the thread, and nothing personal to any of the posters). What has happened happened, let's wait and see what the outcome is re appeal and all that.

 

[Maggot]

Great.

Racism now equals sticks and stones.

That's not what I was saying.

 

[twistedAM]

That's not what I was saying.

It sounded like it. Right now in football racism is more important to deal with than a slap here or there.

 

[phildwyer]

Again, I do not agree. IMO, racist abuse - properly nasty racist abuse - is far worse than punching someone.

Bollocks. Obviously you haven't taken a serious punch to the face recently.

 

[phildwyer]

Could be. TBH I can't be arsed with this debate anymore

Phew, praise the Lord. Small mercies etc...

 

[TruXta]

Phew, praise the Lord. Small mercies etc...

Remember what I said yesterday about posting personal crap on unrelated threads?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bollocks. Obviously you haven't taken a serious punch to the face recently.

In terms of what it says about the perpetrator, the racist abuse is far worse.

A player loses his rag and throws a punch. Anger management issues for sure, but not a morally bad person necessarily.

A player loses his rag and throws racist abuse. If he does that, he reveals himself to be a nasty ignorant fuck. Far harder to forgive, imo.

 

[phildwyer]

In terms of what it says about the perpetrator, the racist abuse is far worse.

True. But in its effect on the victim, the punch is far worse.

 

[Deareg]

True. But in its effect on the victim, the punch is far worse.

How often do you see a decent punch thrown in a football match anyway?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

True. But in its effect on the victim, the punch is far worse.

Not necessarily.

But it's a bit silly getting involved in a discussion about a hierarchy of hurt from different kinds of abuse. I started it, I know, but I'll duck out of it now.

 

[goldenecitrone]

I don't agree. If he'd said something like 'fuck you, you stupid fucking nigger', I would say eight games off would have been lenient. That 'negrito' is not synonymous with 'nigger' saves him somewhat, but there's no 'just saying something' where the intent is nasty, ignorant racism, imo.

But is the word 'negrito' in its South American context a racist term of abuse? They have biscuits there called negritos. How would a black player react on being called Chiernyechko by a Slavic speaker? It has the same literal meaning as negrito, but I doubt anybody would be offended by it, mainly because they wouldn't understand what it meant. And even if someone translated it, would the word Chiernyechko be outlawed by the FA?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But is the word 'negrito' in its South American context a racist term of abuse?

In an argument it could be. I don't know what happened, but the story that Evra called Suarez 'sudaca', then Suarez responded with 'negrito' sounds very believable. If that is what happened, then Evra is more in the wrong of the two. TBH it does sound to me like something that could have been dealt with by a stern telling off for the two of them from the headmaster. As I said earlier, nobody comes out of this well. And John Barnes makes a valid point, I think, about the FA and its high horse. Some humility about past failings over dealing with racism by the very same people who sat in judgement over Suarez is in order.

 

[twistedAM]

But is the word 'negrito' in its South American context a racist term of abuse? They have biscuits there called negritos. How would a black player react on being called Chiernyechko by a Slavic speaker? It has the same literal meaning as negrito, but I doubt anybody would be offended by it, mainly because they wouldn't understand what it meant. And even if someone translated it, would the word Chiernyechko be outlawed by the FA?

We used to have jam here with golliwogs on it but we all knew that if we called a black guy a golliwog ten times he might get a tad upset.

 

[goldenecitrone]

We used to have jam here with golliwogs on it but we all knew that if we called a black guy a golliwog ten times he might get a tad upset.

Can you make these linguistic comparisons across continents and over decades with such certainty? I don't think so.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Negrito isn't equivalent to gollywog. The word in and of itself is pretty neutral in a way that gollywog is not and never was. There's a song I half know that is a love song sung to a 'negrita' - it's not a word that implies any kind of condescension necessarily. However, as ever context is crucial. In a heated exchange, there's no good way to use the word 'negrito'. But, if Evra said sudaca first, then he really should not be complaining. Without knowing what Evra said for sure, it's hard to comment.

Everything is context though. The late poster tbaldwin called his girlfriend his 'paki princess'. Their private thing, no doubt - something that made them laugh. Words out of context don't have any emotional power.They only take on a specific emotional meaning in an exchange.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Negrito isn't equivalent to gollywog. The word in and of itself is pretty neutral in a way that gollywog is not and never was. There's a song I half know that is a love song sung to a 'negrita' - it's not a word that implies any kind of condescension necessarily. However, as ever context is crucial. In a heated exchange, there's no good way to use the word 'negrito'. But, if Evra said sudaca first, then he really should not be complaining. Without knowing what Evra said for sure, it's hard to comment.

I do wonder if Suarez would have said the same thing to someone like Balotelli, a lot bigger in stature than Evra, and with a potential to act more impetuously.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I do wonder if Suarez would have said the same thing to someone like Balotelli, a lot bigger in stature than Evra, and with a potential to act more impetuously.

Almost certainly not. Again, context.