Strike!

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, I do think that paying attention to what's going on in the UCU is really important for anyone who's broadly in favour of seeing the current strikewave escalating - going beyond just slogans and things, it was a real example of a union trying to take a really ambitious amount of action, and I think we owe it to ourselves to look at the difficulties it's had taking the membership along with it, if that makes sense.

Yep.
There was a lot of strategtic sense in the indefinite action proposal, it is quite possible that if it had gone ahead - and been held to - that the ultimate amount of action would have been similar, or perhaps even less, than what will result with the current decision. And result in a better deal.

But those italics are crucial, the body of members are really pretty liberal, in a workplace that is liberal. There is a density of 50% or less in a lot of institutions and compare the turnout with the of the RMT or CWU, not in the same league.
And there simply is not a culture that 'thou shalt not scab', I know members are crossing picket lines, hell I had two walk past me on Thursday. And while we obviously need to break that attitude that is not going to happen overnight.

This is why I am often as frustrated at Grady's critics as I am at her. If we could count on all members going out we could push for indefinite action and win a great deal, but however much we would wish it that is not the case for many branches.

 

[hitmouse]

Yep.
There was a lot of strategtic sense in the indefinite action proposal, it is quite possible that if it had gone ahead - and been held to - that the ultimate amount of action would have been similar, or perhaps even less, than what will result with the current decision. And result in a better deal.

But those italics are crucial, the body of members are really pretty liberal, in a workplace that is liberal. There is a density of 50% or less in a lot of institutions and compare the turnout with the of the RMT or CWU, not in the same league.
And there simply is not a culture that 'thou shalt not scab', I know members are crossing picket lines, hell I had two walk past me on Thursday. And while we obviously need to break that attitude that is not going to happen overnight.

Yeah, it's the thing about the aggregated ballot (christ, there's a part of me that still can't believe I've ended up as someone who has so many opinions about aggregated and disaggregated ballots, but here I am) - with disagg you only get a mandate to strike in the branches that have at least a reasonable level of organisation, with agg if you do it well enough you get a mandate for everyone. Which is great, but then means that you're in the position of taking branches that have never even managed to get a mandate and go on strike through their own efforts, and asking them to jump straight to indefinite from that would've been a very big ask.
On the other hand, from that University Worker article:

Members should have been consulted before this decision was made. Given that the elected negotiators of this dispute have been replaced by paid officials, the lack of consultation over this decision shows a shocking lack of democratic accountability.

That bit fits with what I've heard about the negotiations, and it sounds pretty shocking, does anyone know what the reason given for suddenly replacing the elected negotiators was?

 

[Lord Camomile]

There is a density of 50% or less in a lot of institutions and compare the turnout with the of the RMT or CWU, not in the same league.
And there simply is not a culture that 'thou shalt not scab', I know members are crossing picket lines, hell I had two walk past me on Thursday. And while we obviously need to break that attitude that is not going to happen overnight.

This is why I am often as frustrated at Grady's critics as I am at her. If we could count on all members going out we could push for indefinite action and win a great deal, but however much we would wish it that is not the case for many branches.

Yeah, this definitely feels like one of the biggest challenges in HE, and likewise I do get a bit frustrated with people who seem to either overestimate how much members subscribe to broader trade union principles, and/or don't care.

Absolutely we should be trying to instill trade union values and culture, but we need them in the door and listening to us first. We're fighting against four decades of anti-trade union rhetoric and culture. We need to play the hand we're dealt, at the table we're sitting at, and improve our situation from there.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Yep.
There was a lot of strategtic sense in the indefinite action proposal, it is quite possible that if it had gone ahead - and been held to - that the ultimate amount of action would have been similar, or perhaps even less, than what will result with the current decision. And result in a better deal.

But those italics are crucial, the body of members are really pretty liberal, in a workplace that is liberal. There is a density of 50% or less in a lot of institutions and compare the turnout with the of the RMT or CWU, not in the same league.
And there simply is not a culture that 'thou shalt not scab', I know members are crossing picket lines, hell I had two walk past me on Thursday. And while we obviously need to break that attitude that is not going to happen overnight.

This is why I am often as frustrated at Grady's critics as I am at her. If we could count on all members going out we could push for indefinite action and win a great deal, but however much we would wish it that is not the case for many branches.

Agree. Dispiriting how many people don't understand trade union principles where i work (London Post 92 HEI). Only 2/25 of us on strike in my team recently
I shared this with a friend at another HEI and she dressed me down (she's SWP) saying its been debunked but these arguments are always being used by my colleagues to avoid striking

 

[Miss-Shelf]

. Double post

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Same, but funnier

 

[Lord Camomile]

There's always a tweet

 

[aqua]

Where I work, UCU has teaching staff members and members in Professional Services. But UCU does not bargain for those in PS, the employer's agreement for them is solely with Unison. I think PS staff who do join UCU do so because we're more active.

No it's based on contract. I'm professional services but on an academic related contract so it's UCU

 

[aqua]

I posted in thUCU thread but I really think this is bad news for the union itself amongst it's members. Those that have not prepared teaching materials for Tuesday, who have worked so hard with the students etc now have a 180 decision made on Friday night with no notice. Plus it's our half term here next week and there's a sudden need to book time off or source other childcare.
Really badly managed. And that's going to frustrate members so much. Never mind the concerns over whether it's a bad move itself for negotiations.
That said I'm glad personally, both financially and for my own work ATM, but I'd rather have held our nerve.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Thought it might be worth shifting my UCU comments over to the UCU thread, but a slightly broader thought that was inspired by this situation:

It occurred to me that unions are at a distinct disadvantage in negotiations compared to employers. Either they announce the bulk of their plans/strategy in public, for transparency so members are informed, but then so are their negotiation opponents. Or, they play things close to their chest, which invariably infuriates the membership to some degree or another.

To a certain extent you can build trust among your membership so that they give you the benefit of the doubt if you don't provide all the details, but it's still a bit rough.

 

[hitmouse]

Might deserve a thread of its own, but here's a conference coming up in July:

Conference 2023 – Troublemakers At Work

troublemakersat.work

Coming from the Strike Map people, seems like an attempt to get something like Labor Notes going in UK, which would definitely be useful.

 

[hitmouse]

No it's based on contract. I'm professional services but on an academic related contract so it's UCU

Dunno what area you're in, but I think there are some library and IT staff who join UCU for the reasons Serge mentioned, despite being on the same contract?

 

[aqua]

Dunno what area you're in, but I think there are some library and IT staff who join UCU for the reasons Serge mentioned, despite being on the same contract?

We have library and IT because above a certain pay scale we're classed as academic related and therefore it's ucu. Unison under a certain pay scale.

 

[Serge Forward]

Not wanting to sound all woolly but aqua and hitmouse are both right - it is according to contract but some on non-academic contracts do choose to join UCU

 

[Lord Camomile]

Might deserve a thread of its own, but here's a conference coming up in July:

Conference 2023 – Troublemakers At Work

troublemakersat.work

Coming from the Strike Map people, seems like an attempt to get something like Labor Notes going in UK, which would definitely be useful.

Heh, yeah, was just looking at that meself. Sounds interesting, might apply, but couldn't say for sure.

We have library and IT because above a certain pay scale we're classed as academic related and therefore it's ucu. Unison under a certain pay scale.

In this context what does "classed as academic related" mean? Is that a local agreement/understanding?

I know some colleagues in our libraries are UCU, but my understanding was that was basically a personal decision, although as you say it does seem to generally be those above a certain grade (either based around being 'a profession', and/or what pension they're in).

Obviously does make it slightly difficult as in libraries we're one of the most densely and active parts of our UNISON branch, but UCU isn't really active there at all.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Sorry, just caught up with the rest of the convo, seems like we'd kind of already got there

Tbh, think I've said before, but I've considered joining UCU as well, as they seem to be better at supporting activists, and I often find myself looking to their comms to find out what's going on.

 

[flypanam]

Not wanting to sound all woolly but aqua and hitmouse are both right - it is according to contract but some on non-academic contracts do choose to join UCU

I’m an assistant librarian and in UCU which although not the right fit as a union at least was active in my workplace unlike unison. We’re in a weird place as the branch doesn’t give one jot about us and our issues. In fact the branch leadership are very conservative despite two of them coming from courses that talk about ‘social change’

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[hitmouse]

I mean, that's certainly childish, but on the other hand, if you don't want people to make their views heard through wikipedia edits, perhaps it would be good to consult them so they can express themselves internally?

 

[Cerv]

the kind of petulant child who makes a wiki edit like that, are you sure any amount of consultation would mollify them?
I'd wager they'd pull the exact same shit even if there had been a high turnout union wide vote on the matter.

 

[Brainaddict]

In fact the branch leadership are very conservative despite two of them coming from courses that talk about ‘social change’

This does not surprise me at all. One of the many problems of academia is that (for all the kooky hairstyles) to be successful in it you have to be quite strongly socially conformist - where the social rules are about the hierarchies of academia.

 

[Karl Masks]

True though. TUC are lions led by donkeys

 

[AmateurAgitator]

True though. TUC are lions led by donkeys

Shut up you thick cunt

 

[Pickman's model]

Shut up you thick cunt

So it's true, if you leave some no-mark banging away on a keyboard that once in a blue moon they'll post something apt

 

[hitmouse]

Sorry to derail this fascinating exchange, but the BMA results are now out:

Pay restoration for junior doctors in England

During the last two years, junior doctors have made both an enormous contribution and a significant sacrifice. And yet none of this is recognised by the government. We are calling for NHS pay restoration.

www.bma.org.uk

The results are in and members have delivered a huge mandate – with the highest-ever number of junior doctors voting for strike action and a record turnout. A huge thank you to all of those who voted.

We will inform members as soon as dates have been set for strike action.

If the Government refuses to give us full pay restoration, we will be calling for a full walkout of all junior doctors for 72 hours This will be our first round of action.

The ballot results are as follows:

• Number entitled to vote: 47,692
• Number of votes cast in the ballot: 36,955 (votes cast in the ballot as a percentage of individuals who were entitled to vote: 77.49%)
• Number of YES votes: 36,218 (98.06%)
• Number of NO votes: 716 (1.94%)
• Number of spoiled or otherwise invalid voting papers returned: 21

Hearing they're looking at the 15th? ETA: my source might have been getting mixed up there, from the Guardian:

Junior doctors in England to strike for 72 hours in March

Ten of thousands to take part in industrial action in escalation of row between NHS staff and government

www.theguardian.com

Junior doctors who are members of the Hospital Consultants and Specialists Association (HCSA) have already said they will strike for the first time in the union’s history. That action takes place on 15 March.

Tens of thousands of nurses in cancer wards, A&E departments and intensive care units in England will also stop work for 48 hours from 1 March. Ambulance staff in England and Wales will stage industrial action on 6 March and 20 March.

 

[Karl Masks]

Shut up you thick cunt

Right on brother.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Huh...

Nurses to suspend 48-hour strike as talks re-start

Strike action planned for next week is paused as the Royal College of Nursing holds "intensive talks" with government.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Royal College of Nursing has called off next week's 48-hour strike in England to re-start talks with the government.

Both sides said in a joint statement they had agreed to enter "intensive" negotiations.
Ministers, officials and RCN leaders will meet on Wednesday to start talks.

The RCN originally asked for a pay rise of 5% above inflation, but has since said it would be willing to meet the government half-way.

Next week's walkout was due to start on Wednesday at 06:00 GMT.

It was set to be the biggest strike of this winter's pay dispute with half of frontline services affected.

 

[teqniq]

Imo the government have zero intention of negotiating in good faith.

 

[not a trot]

Imo the government have zero intention of negotiating in good faith.

Relying on public support waning.

 

[LDC]

Just walked in from work, this got announced while I was there, people are pissed off as fuck at the RCN for this, feels like a betrayal.