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hiraethified
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Looosers!
Starbucks loses its froth
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Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
McDonald's has better coffee than Starbucks for cheaper. Their new coffee line has a smoother finish and less bitter aftertaste. (Their flavor syrups are abysmal, but I thought Starbucks was too. I can't abide sugary crap in my coffee.)
<que flaming>
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I do as well, but I live in a place that never saw the overpopulation of fru-fru coffeeshops, not even Starbucks.
Kanda
Diving wanker
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I very seriously doubt it as well, not if you are an actual coffee shop and your main business is selling people coffee and sometimes some sandwiches.
The local indie shops around here all charge at least £1.50 and they're hardly rolling in it. They charge a lot for sandwiches too. There's one new one opened up that charges a quid or £1.20 or something, but nice as the bloke is I don't honestly think he knows what he's doing; it mostly seems to be a hangout for his mates, either that or it's some sort of front.
thing is tho, it depends how you look at it, like when I was working 9 to 5 last year, I would fucking love to have an espresso or a decent coffee on my way to work, I rarely did because it meant getting up 10 minutes earlier, and it cost about 1.50 or something. If it was dead cheap I might have gone everyday and definetely if I was in toon on Saturday I would stop in for a coffee, I think they'd make the same profit if they made it more affordable
editor
hiraethified
The best coffee in Brixton is the Monmouth coffee served at the not-as-posh-as-it-looks deli in the arcade, but you can get decent coffee at the the Lounge and Ritzy too.
To pick some numbers out of the air as an illustration: if it costs them 90p per cup to make an espresso then they will make 60p profit on a price of £1.50 and 10p profit on a price of £1. That means that they have to sell six times as many cups of £1 as £1.50 coffee to make the same profit. No way will they manage that.
And that's if they manage to keep the cost down to 90p in the first place.
but it can't cost that much to make a coffee. with places like costa you are paying for shit like sofas, lights, adverts, high st locations, profit going upstairs etc
if you just had a small cafe and made good coffee somewhere central it would never cost 90p to make a cup of coffee
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
That's an assertion of hope, rather than anything else.
So your local coffee shop wouldn't have lighting, a halfway decent location so people know it's there, or anywhere to sit?
^^This.
Plus, don't forget, Costa gets massive economies of scale to go along with their expenses. Economies of scale that your local coffee shop can't hope to match.
They'll be paying £4k for an industrial coffee maker for a start. How many cups of coffee are you willing to spread that cost over?
there is a massive difference between having a decent place to go for a coffee around the centre of town and having a massive starbucks smack bang in the middle
in newcastle there is a little cafe run by this turkish couple like this, not flashy at all, just good cheap nice coffee and they do ok
anyway, I'm not playing Dragons Den with you lot anymore, you can all come for a coffee once it's sorted
in newcastle there is a little cafe run by this turkish couple like this, not flashy at all, just good cheap nice coffee and they do ok
anyway, I'm not playing Dragons Den with you lot anymore, you can all come for a coffee once it's sorted
Put it this way, isitme: do you really think that nobody has ever previously set up a coffee shop with the intention of undercutting the opposition and providing cheap coffee in a pleasant environment?
Are current small cafe owners all deluded? Or are they all rolling in excess profits?
Are current small cafe owners all deluded? Or are they all rolling in excess profits?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
OK, so lets look at what our costs might be:
OK, here's a likely property for sale:
http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=04&salerent=0&pid=2293822
That's £55K. it's a nice shop, good chance of footfall throughout the day. A 25 year mortgage on £55K will work out at around £95K total in repayments, so that's £316.66 per month to buy the place.
Gaggia 2 group espresso machine: http://www.gocoffee.co.uk/coffee-machines/gaggia-2-group-gd-p-424.html
36 Months from: £150.07 for 3 years, and you're probably looking at a replacement after 4 or 5. plus about £800 for servicing warranty, water filter and installation and training.
6kg of Fairtrade coffee = £66. I have no idea how much of this you'd get through a week. Anyone got any ideas?
But so far we're up to £520 or so per month for the first year, and that's before we start thinking about furniture (by this I don't just mean sofas and chairs, I'm talking about fridges, storage space workbenching etc etc), H&S inspections/certificates, all the utility bills, buildings, business and workers insurance and finally, staff costs.
Basically with staff costs you take what someone is earning and add 2/3rds additional costs - so paying someone £16K would in effect cost you about £24K a year. Assume that you're going to be doing this with 2 part timers, both earning £8K, plus yourself and you aim to pay yourself £25K a year. Your staffing costs per month will be about £4k.
So your break even is £4.5K per month before you factor in all the stuff mentioned above, PLUS you then have other stock, some of which will be fresh and perishable, some which you'll get and replace as it's sold.
So I reckon we could realistically estimate the monthly running costs of this business to be at least £5K a month in the first year. This means that, without making any profit, you'd need to sell 5555 cups at £0.90, or 185 cups of espresso every day.
OK, here's a likely property for sale:
http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=04&salerent=0&pid=2293822
That's £55K. it's a nice shop, good chance of footfall throughout the day. A 25 year mortgage on £55K will work out at around £95K total in repayments, so that's £316.66 per month to buy the place.
Gaggia 2 group espresso machine: http://www.gocoffee.co.uk/coffee-machines/gaggia-2-group-gd-p-424.html
36 Months from: £150.07 for 3 years, and you're probably looking at a replacement after 4 or 5. plus about £800 for servicing warranty, water filter and installation and training.
6kg of Fairtrade coffee = £66. I have no idea how much of this you'd get through a week. Anyone got any ideas?
But so far we're up to £520 or so per month for the first year, and that's before we start thinking about furniture (by this I don't just mean sofas and chairs, I'm talking about fridges, storage space workbenching etc etc), H&S inspections/certificates, all the utility bills, buildings, business and workers insurance and finally, staff costs.
Basically with staff costs you take what someone is earning and add 2/3rds additional costs - so paying someone £16K would in effect cost you about £24K a year. Assume that you're going to be doing this with 2 part timers, both earning £8K, plus yourself and you aim to pay yourself £25K a year. Your staffing costs per month will be about £4k.
So your break even is £4.5K per month before you factor in all the stuff mentioned above, PLUS you then have other stock, some of which will be fresh and perishable, some which you'll get and replace as it's sold.
So I reckon we could realistically estimate the monthly running costs of this business to be at least £5K a month in the first year. This means that, without making any profit, you'd need to sell 5555 cups at £0.90, or 185 cups of espresso every day.
You use about 10g of espresso per shot, so a 6kg bag is good for 600 cups. That makes your Fairtrade come out at 11p per cup. To put it another way, your 5555 cups per month would require about 10 bags of coffee, at a cost of about £600 per month.
The business rates element that stands in addition to your costs could well be as much as £1000 per month. So you'll probably need turnover of more like £5.5k per month. Make it 185 cups at £1 rather than 90p if you want.
But then -- can 2 people even make 185 cups of espresso per day whilst also doing all the other things necessary for the running of a cafe? Even assuming that you can sell that many cups, which I doubt.
The business rates element that stands in addition to your costs could well be as much as £1000 per month. So you'll probably need turnover of more like £5.5k per month. Make it 185 cups at £1 rather than 90p if you want.
But then -- can 2 people even make 185 cups of espresso per day whilst also doing all the other things necessary for the running of a cafe? Even assuming that you can sell that many cups, which I doubt.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Well this is it. What footfall could you expect? Could we expect more than 185 per day? And as you say, would 2 people be enough, how long a day are you expecting your p/timer to work etc.
Your call isitme.
Your call isitme.
My partner and I go for coffee A LOT in Manchester. We live on the border of Manchester City Centre and Salford and often go into town in the middle of the day to have something to eat and drink before I go to work. We do consider Starbucks expensive and try and go to local Greek Cafes or a local chain called Java who have a branch near Oxford Road Train Station. I can't quote you their prices but I think you can get a toastie for about £1.50 and a coffee for about £1.20. My partner runs a TV and radio production company and often holds ideas meetings and meetings with potential clients at local hotels like the beautiful Edwardian Midland. In the Midland (which is opposite the Manchester Library branch of Starbucks) you can get a large pot of tea for two (with extra hot water) and some biscuits brought to you by a polite waiter at a very comfy sofa (sometimes with the pianist playing in the background) all for £6. We never eat there because a basic ham sarnie is about £9 but we do go to the Midland when we want some inexpensive luxury. We are not loaded (our combined income is about £29,000) and the rent on our flat is £700/month. We don't get many holidays or buy clothes and stuff for the house and we buy all the basics items from our local supermarket. We are also members of our local gym which is the YMCA. It costs about £42/month each. We never use the gym and the pool is a bit tiny but I go because my partner is a member and it is nice to go swimming together. The nearest local authority pool is The Manchester Aquatics Centre on Oxford Road which costs about I think £4 for a swim but you can really power up and down (if its not some random kiddies swimming less going on).
spacemonkey
I Love Noodles
kyser & kabbes....I applaud your effort on this thread!
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Looks like sales are still on the slide.
finance.yahoo.com
I have never understood the appeal of Starbucks. Everything it sells is overpriced and overrated. I'd literally rather have a mug of gold blend.
Starbucks reports another quarter of declining sales, reaffirms guidance
Starbucks reported its fiscal Q3 earnings report as an activist investor is knocking on its door.
I have never understood the appeal of Starbucks. Everything it sells is overpriced and overrated. I'd literally rather have a mug of gold blend.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
If you're forced to spend time in a Starbucks the trick is to have the tea - that's harder to ruin than coffee.Looks like sales are still on the slide.
Starbucks reports another quarter of declining sales, reaffirms guidance
Starbucks reported its fiscal Q3 earnings report as an activist investor is knocking on its door.
I have never understood the appeal of Starbucks. Everything it sells is overpriced and overrated. I'd literally rather have a mug of gold blend.
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