Sports Personality Of The Year - Zara Phillips

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Last time i checked it wasn't Sports Personality Who'd Overcome The Most Ardous Personal Circumstances To Triumph Against All Odds Of The Year.

maybe we should means test the nominees?

No, it's not. And if you'd read what I've already written then you'd know that isn't my point.

What IS my point is that the winner of the equestrian world championships comes from a tiny, tiny pool of people. So IMO it's less of an achievment than winning a more popular sport where the field is drawn from a much wider range of people.

 

[chriswill]

:d :d

 

[trashpony]

No, it's not. And if you'd read what I've already written then you'd know that isn't my point.

What IS my point is that the winner of the equestrian world championships comes from a tiny, tiny pool of people. So IMO it's less of an achievment than winning a more popular sport where the field is drawn from a much wider range of people.

Oh okay - that's a fair point

 

[Dubversion]

No, it's not. And if you'd read what I've already written then you'd know that isn't my point.

What IS my point is that the winner of the equestrian world championships comes from a tiny, tiny pool of people. So IMO it's less of an achievment than winning a more popular sport where the field is drawn from a much wider range of people.

So you'd criticise motor racing drivers - of whom 7, i think, have won this award - for the same reasons? Expensive sport, tiny participation?

 

[Pieface]

Once you've whittled it down to the best in the world in any sport it's a small pool of people. I don't see the strength of this point of yours at all - you seem to be saying it's not competitive

 

[Relahni]

to pieye

This goal.

The technique was fantastic. The elevation he got after striking the ball was unbelievable.

To strike a ball like that, when your team is 3-2 down in the cup final - with one minute left is special.

More special than sitting on a horse imho.

 

[kyser_soze]

What IS my point is that the winner of the equestrian world championships comes from a tiny, tiny pool of people. So IMO it's less of an achievment than winning a more popular sport where the field is drawn from a much wider range of people.

Professional level sport is always going to be a small pool to draw from whichever way you look at it - say for example a Decathlon winner got sports personality of the year; they aren't exactly ten-a-penny are they?

I know what you mean, but uiltimately at pro level sports, and more to the point being an international winner at a pro sport you are fishing in a small pool anyway, irrespective of the potential pool of talent at the other end.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

No, it's not. And if you'd read what I've already written then you'd know that isn't my point.

What IS my point is that the winner of the equestrian world championships comes from a tiny, tiny pool of people. So IMO it's less of an achievment than winning a more popular sport where the field is drawn from a much wider range of people.

There are more people who ride horses than row boats. Does that make it less significant to win a gold in Rowing than Horseriding?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

So you'd criticise motor racing drivers - of whom 7, i think, have won this award - for the same reasons? Expensive sport, tiny participation?

Absolutely.

Oh, except that I'm not criticising her, or the racing drivers. I just don't think she should have won.

 

[Dubversion]

Sports Personality by Sport

Formula One 6
Middle-Distance Running 5
Other Track and Field 5
Long-Distance Running 4
Football 4
Boxing 4
Cricket 4
Equestrianism 3
Tennis 3
Golf 2
Swimming 2
Sprint and Hurdles 2
Figure skating 2
Motorcycle sport 1
Cycling 1
Snooker 1
Rowing 1
Rugby Union 1

Motor racing - arguably the most elite sport of all - tops the chart. Is it Phllips' fault that we're a bit shit at sport and have to take our winners where can find them?

 

[Dubversion]

Absolutely.

Oh, except that I'm not criticising her, or the racing drivers. I just don't think she should have won.

That's fine, except your argument is predicated on questioning the entire validity of the sport, or at least its right to be considered for the award. Which is a little OTT

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Professional level sport is always going to be a small pool to draw from whichever way you look at it - say for example a Decathlon winner got sports personality of the year; they aren't exactly ten-a-penny are they?

I know what you mean, but uiltimately at pro level sports, and more to the point being an international winner at a pro sport you are fishing in a small pool anyway, irrespective of the potential pool of talent at the other end.

But the pool of pros isn't the point. Those pros are drawn from a much wider pool of participants. How many kids played football through their teens but never made it as professionals? Compared to how many spent their teens riding?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

But that's true of most sports other than football.

 

[Dubversion]

But the pool of pros isn't the point. Those pros are drawn from a much wider pool of participants. How many kids played football through their teens but never made it as professionals? Compared to how many spent their teens riding?

Have a look at that list and see how many sports you can apply your template to.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

That's fine, except your argument is predicated on questioning the entire validity of the sport, or at least its right to be considered for the award. Which is a little OTT

I think your interpretation of it is a little OTT maybe. I think it's the case though that a world title in some sports is worth less than others.

For example, Bob is clearly trying cite Steve Redgrave in his rowing example. I think it's fair enough that Redgrave won it - because he was a multiple Olympic champion. He didn't get a look in for winning his first world title did he?

 

[Dubversion]

I think your interpretation of it is a little OTT maybe. I think it's the case though that a world title in some sports is worth less than others.

can you explain how you arrive at this scale of relative worth?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Have a look at that list and see how many sports you can apply your template to.

No- that might have some sort of relevance if I was claiming that the BBC Award was previously flawless. Which I'm not.

 

[Dubversion]

in which case, i don't know what you're complaining about.

Hold The Front Page - Unsuitable winner of award with long history of unsuitable winners!

 

[Pieface]

to pieye

This goal.

The technique was fantastic. The elevation he got after striking the ball was unbelievable.

To strike a ball like that, when your team is 3-2 down in the cup final - with one minute left is special.

More special than sitting on a horse imho.

It does sound very impressive. I guess you can't beat that reaction into someone though, it'll always leave me cold, probably just as someone "sitting" on a horse will never get to you. But if you could see what they can get these animals to do - the relationship they build. Half a ton of horse can't be made to jump what they jump on cross country courses - there is a lot of character in the sport. Primarily on the animal's side imo

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

can you explain how you arrive at this scale of relative worth?

It's my opinion. It's not absolute, or based upon a proportionate scale or anything. It's still my opinion that the number of people who participate in a sport is relevant. It's just more difficult to become world champion in some sports than others.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

in which case, i don't know what you're complaining about.

Hold The Front Page - Unsuitable winner of award with long history of unsuitable winners!

No shit.

I'm at work killing some time.

ETA: I expect not to see you bitching on here come the next Mercury Music award btw.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Not at all. Merely that while your logic makes horseriding a more "worthy" sport than rowing, you ignore all the other factors that should impinge on it, such as the time, dedication, training and teamwork that's required of a person to sucseed in many/all sports.

In short: you're missing the point this is about the person doing it, or it should be, rather than how many golds they have.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Not at all. Merely that while your logic makes horseriding a more "worthy" sport than rowing, while you ignore all the other factors that should impinge on it, such as the time, dedication, training and teamwork that's required of a person to sucseed in many/all sports.

In short: you're missing the point.

I wasn't missing any point before thanks, but I'm not quite sure that i get this one.

Are you suggesting that rowing is more 'worthy' than horseriding because of all that stuff? Because that will annoy all the people who said 'all sportspeople train just as hard.'

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

In short: you're missing the point this is about the person doing it, or it should be, rather than how many golds they have.

Oh you've edited. That's just rubbish I'm afraid. So if she'd have worked just as hard and come 6th she'd have deserved it as much?

If it's all about that stuff there must be thousands of sportspeople who train equally as hard and never win anything. Why aren't they nominated?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Which is clearly false. I doubt the GB curling team train 6 days a week.

Your arguement was that she shouldn't get the award (or maybe even be eligable?) because horseriding is a small sport. Yet you are willing to alter that descision in the case of rowing, an even smaller sport, because of the person involved or possibly because you think rowing is a more singificant sport despite your arguements to the contrary.

Golds (or at least some nice silverware) are needed for entry to the competition, but you're willing to sacrifice your principles for one person but not another, why?

 

[Dubversion]

ETA: I expect not to see you bitching on here come the next Mercury Music award btw.

The Mercury Music Award is a heap of shit, always has been, and its selection of winners is bogus. However, when i scream and shout at the wankers who chose the winner, it won't be because I think the band who won didn't meet some criteria of participation or privilege or anything. It'll because the band who won are shit.

 

[Sweaty Betty]

man/woman + boat (inanimate object)

man/woman + horse ( intelleigent creature)

there is no contest im afraid , the meeting of minds between animal and human is a powerful concept and reality that takes double the training physically and mentally than any rower imo....

 

[Pieface]

you might be on dodgy ground with the physical training there Haylz!

Rowers are mad buff.

 

[Sweaty Betty]

Why aren't they nominated?

because to come out of nowhere and snatch the ultimate equestrian dream is short of a miracle whoever the fuck you are!!!

 

[Sweaty Betty]

you might be on dodgy ground with the physical training there Haylz!

Rowers are mad buff.

im standing firm on this one.

untill one of them have been dragged down the side of a mountain by a hormonal mare, they can shove their mamby pamby training up thier jock straps