So how's it going in Poland then?

[ViolentPanda]

Poland has lost so many skilled workers,that it's hardly a suprise that the country is in such a mess.
Waves of migration are always likely to have the effect of increasing inequality and poverty in countries that people move from.

Except Poland isn't "in a mess" because of emigration, and the workers they're "losing" (most of whom appear, on home office figures, to stay less than 2 years) aren't "skilled professionals", they're "artisans" (electricians, plumbers, brickies, plasterers).
Poland's current economic problems partly lie (this is all information you can track down in a couple of minutes on google, btw) in the fact that it's agricultural sector (the largest rural employer for several hundred years) is contracting due to automation (under Capitalism, employing tied labour is seen as an unnecessary expense), while it's industrial and service sectors, while expanding, aren't keeping pace with job losses. Poland is still, like the former East Germany coping with the after effects of being a post-war command economy.

 

[Belushi]

Poland has lost so many skilled workers,that it's hardly a suprise that the country is in such a mess.
Waves of migration are always likely to have the effect of increasing inequality and poverty in countries that people move from.

Thats nonsense, as VP has detailed above - many Poles are going abroad to work because the economy is in a mess, not vice versa.

And working abroad isnt soley to do with economics, many young Poles go abroad to experince life in another country just as many young Brits do.

 

[tbaldwin]

Let me get this straight;

Because nino supports the removal of tuition fees for higher education (something that many real socialists support), he " stands for privellege and against the ideas of equality fraternity and social justice."?

You're deluded.

Nino wants to see more money go to a privelleged minority like H/E students. Even if they went to schools like Harrow and Eton he still wants to see them get a free Higher Education.........
If that is what you call Real Socialism then i want none of it.

Back to Poland the article in the Guardian contradicted the nonsense of right wingers like nino who try to pretend that economic migration is actually good for countries who lose so many of their skilled workers....Cos some of their new found wealth TRICKLES back to their home countries.....Its a shit arguement.

 

[tbaldwin]

Answer my fucking question.

Can you show me where I've ever styled myself "the voice of authority".

Because we both know you can't, don't we? We both know that, once again, you're lying.

What's it like to be both a coward and a liar, shithead?

1 I have.

2 I have

3 No.

4 Not sure have you thought about consulting your google God?

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino wants to see more money go to a privelleged minority like H/E students. Even if they went to schools like Harrow and Eton he still wants to see them get a free Higher Education.........
If that is what you call Real Socialism then i want none of it.

Ah, so you think you're a mind reader as well now - eh?

As for socialism, you wouldn't know socialism if it came up and kneed you in nads.

 

[tbaldwin]

Ah, so you think you're a mind reader as well now - eh?

As for socialism, you wouldn't know socialism if it came up and kneed you in nads.

1 So you agree with now do you that people from Independent Schools should have to pay full fees in H/E ?

2 Redistribution of Wealth and Power from the very small % of privelleged people. Nationally and Internationally.

3 Remind me again what % of the worlds population has a higher education......

 

[nino_savatte]

1 So you agree with now do you that people from Independent Schools should have to pay full fees in H/E ?

2 Redistribution of Wealth and Power from the very small % of privelleged people. Nationally and Internationally.

3 Remind me again what % of the worlds population has a higher education......

Poland?

 

[nino_savatte]

So, let's see...balders is a mind reader, a 'socialist' and, presumably, a magician.

Maybe we'll see some of his alchemical skills soon. Now that would be a treat.

 

[tbaldwin]

Poland?

Yeah why dont you comment on the Guardian article? It might be good to read your views?

 

[ViolentPanda]

1 I have.

You haven't. You waffled about " 19,779 posts. What you lack in humility and substance you more than make up for in attempting to sound authorative and knowledgeable."

2 I have

You haven't. You waffled about " 19,779 posts. What you lack in humility and substance you more than make up for in attempting to sound authorative and knowledgeable."

3 No.

And yet you can't produce a single scrap of anything to prove that you're NOT lying, can you?
Why's that? Is it due to an international anti-tbaldwin campaign, or is it because you really ARE a liar?

4 Not sure have you thought about consulting your google God?

And gere we go with another tbaldwin patented smear.
When people mention stuff that you don't have a clue about, it doesn't mean they've "googled" it. You may have to do so, many other people don't.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yeah why dont you comment on the Guardian article? It might be good to read your views?

What views? Oh, the ones that you made up for me in your fevered (possibly rabid) mind.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nino wants to see more money go to a privelleged minority like H/E students. Even if they went to schools like Harrow and Eton he still wants to see them get a free Higher Education.........
If that is what you call Real Socialism then i want none of it.

It's odd how the views you're attributing to nino are actually prejudices you've expressed in previous threads.
I did wonder why this was for all of about 30 seconds, and then I realised that you actually haven't got a clue, and don't actually care what nino's opinions are, you're just using him as a convenient nail to hang your personal prejudices on.

Setting aside your strange prejudice against centrally-funded H/E in any form, you love to bring up your statistic about the percentage of the world's population in H/E, so here's something for you to puzzle on:

What percentage of those people participating in higher ed are actually "privileged" (i.e. their families could afford to cover their tuition fees and living expenses with little or no hardship)?

 

[ViolentPanda]

What views? Oh, the ones that you made up for me in your fevered (possibly rabid) mind.

Balders "rabid"?

Nah, dogs die before they can get within 3ft of him. Something to do with the unholy stench of bullshit that pervades him.

 

[nino_savatte]

Balders "rabid"?

Nah, dogs die before they can get within 3ft of him. Something to do with the unholy stench of bullshit that pervades him.

More like a "sewer" in his case -eh?

 

[tbaldwin]

What percentage of those people participating in higher ed are actually "privileged"

I know your not great on stats and things like that. But just over 1% of the Worlds population has the privellege of a Higher Education. So what do you reckon?

 

[nino_savatte]

I know your not great on stats and things like that. But just over 1% of the Worlds population has the privellege of a Higher Education. So what do you reckon?

Your single-minded obsession with such issues makes you look like a crank.

But who cares? Crank, troll, liar, it's all adds up to the same thing: you're full of shite.

 

[Pigeon]

I know your not great on stats and things like that. But just over 1% of the Worlds population has the privellege of a Higher Education. So what do you reckon?

I reckon facts and stats are questionable. A great thinker told me so.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I know your not great on stats and things like that. But just over 1% of the Worlds population has the privellege of a Higher Education. So what do you reckon?

I don't know, oh wise one, that's why I'm asking you, as you're the one who appears to have it all worked out about who is or isn't privileged.

 

[tbaldwin]

Your single-minded obsession with such issues makes you look like a crank.

But who cares? Crank, troll, liar, it's all adds up to the same thing: you're full of shite.

If asked my opinion on H/E i state it...I'm not obsessed by it....But i do think that its slightly amusing that people who claim to be International Socialists seem to want to give a privelleged minority more money.....

 

[nino_savatte]

If asked my opinion on H/E i state it...I'm not obsessed by it....But i do think that its slightly amusing that people who claim to be International Socialists seem to want to give a privelleged minority more money.....

Broken record, broken mind. Short term memory problems. Balders has blown another fuse. Call an electrician.

 

[tbaldwin]

Broken record, broken mind. Short term memory problems. Balders has blown another fuse. Call an electrician.

Funny how if other people avoid giving a straight answer general panda and private nino get so upset isnt it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Funny how if other people avoid giving a straight answer general panda and private nino get so upset isnt it?

Funny how I give you straight answers to your questions and you give me bullshit, isn't it?

 

[becky p]

Funny how I give you straight answers to your questions and you give me bullshit, isn't it?

Do you think Poland has benefited from so many workers emigrating?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you think Poland has benefited from so many workers emigrating?

What a lovely simplistic question.

I presume you've actually read the thread?

I "think" that some Poles are benefitting from finding employment abroad that they wouldn't find at home because of the contraction of the Polish agricultural sector (you may have bothered to read my points about Polish industry earlier in the thread, but I doubt it). I "think" that their families benefit from the remittance of hard currency, especially when sterling is strong against the euro.

I also "think" that Poland's loss of artisan labour, IF it were permanent, would be bad for Poland. HOWEVER, current Home Office figures show that over 80% of registered workers return home within two years.
The jury on whether Poland accrues a net benefit from emigration is out. A fact that people who fulminate against immigration seem to miss.

 

[nino_savatte]

Funny how if other people avoid giving a straight answer general panda and private nino get so upset isnt it?

Funny how you demand proof and evidence from others but never oblige when the same is requested of you.

I'm not "upset". You're too much of an idiot to upset me. You don't have the wit or the intelligence to get near.

 

[nino_savatte]

Do you think Poland has benefited from so many workers emigrating?

Do you think Poland has benefitted from its headlong rush into Late Western Capitalism? How about the anti-Semitism and homophobia, do you think Poland benefits from those things?

 

[becky p]

What a lovely simplistic question.

I presume you've actually read the thread?

I "think" that some Poles are benefitting from finding employment abroad that they wouldn't find at home because of the contraction of the Polish agricultural sector (you may have bothered to read my points about Polish industry earlier in the thread, but I doubt it). I "think" that their families benefit from the remittance of hard currency, especially when sterling is strong against the euro.

I also "think" that Poland's loss of artisan labour, IF it were permanent, would be bad for Poland. HOWEVER, current Home Office figures show that over 80% of registered workers return home within two years.
The jury on whether Poland accrues a net benefit from emigration is out. A fact that people who fulminate against immigration seem to miss.

Are you a politician at all?

 

[becky p]

Do you think Poland has benefitted from its headlong rush into Late Western Capitalism? How about the anti-Semitism and homophobia, do you think Poland benefits from those things?

No.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you a politician at all?

Bloody cheek!

Nope, mainly 'cos I think the current choice we have in party politics is not much choice at all, just 3 parties all selling the same snake oil.

Fact is though, with Poland we just don't know what'll happen. We can take some guesses based on the experiences of the former East Germany after re-unification (economic emigration due to the shrinking of industry, a rightward trend in politics, investment by foreign companies based on cheaper labour, a gradual economic equilibrium being reached with other euro-regions etc), but we don't know who'll be affected and by how much, and pretending that we do know such things is pointless.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you think Poland has benefitted from its headlong rush into Late Western Capitalism? How about the anti-Semitism and homophobia, do you think Poland benefits from those things?

The problems of anti-Semitism and homophobia are arguably (as in East Germany and some other "Iron Curtain" states) artefacts of Catholicism combined with Soviet social mores (the old tish about homosexuality being "decadent" etc) as much as being a product of Poland's integration into modern Capitalism and any tensions such integration has caused.