SNP leadership election (2023)

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Forbes also says my kids are 'wrong' cos they were born outside of marriage, (more babies were born outside of marriage than inside in 2021 btw). What are people like that doing anywhere near politics?

 

[Sasaferrato]

 

[Sasaferrato]

Be best if we skipped to the stage where you put this thread on ignore to be honest.

Really? That you there Nicola?

 

[belboid]

Go on, call the SNP nazi's again, you know you wanna

 

[danny la rouge]

Really? That you there Nicola?

It’s funny because steeplejack loves Nicola so much he must be her. Hur hur hur.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Go on, call the SNP nazi's again, you know you wanna

Why do I need to state the obvious. I suggest you have a look at their antecedents, particularly Arthur Donaldson, you know, the chap who told Hitler he would be happy to run Scotland for him.

 

[steeplejack]

Oh get to fuck

 

[Sue]

Why do I need to state the obvious. I suggest you have a look at their antecedents, particularly Arthur Donaldson, you know, the chap who told Hitler he would be happy to run Scotland for him.

Well you clearly do need to. On. Every. Bloody. Thread that mentions the SNP.

I don't mention the Nazi salutes of the future George VI/Elizabeth II every time the royal family's mentioned. Maybe I should, given you're such a fan of the whole royal bollocks.

(FTR, I'm not a fan of the SNP. I just think your 'Scottish Nazi Party' stuff is appalling.)

 

[steeplejack]

or we could discuss one of the founders of British fascism, Mosley, erstwhile member of the two big UK parties, or Lloyd George and Churchill's admiration for Mussolini, Churchill using poison gas on Iraqis from the air, or sections of the Royal Family's tacit support for fascism, Nazism and South African apartheid, etc etc etc

where does it get us?

however, we are trying to have a reasonably sensible discussion about the SNP leadership in 2023, without a furious man baby on a permanent tantrum cycle snorting angry political weetabix all over the curtains.

I am not an SNP member or supporter, either.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Well you clearly do need to. On. Every. Bloody. Thread that mentions the SNP.

I don't mention the Nazi salutes of the future George VI/Elizabeth II every time the royal family's mentioned. Maybe I should, given you're such a fan of the whole royal bollocks.

(FTR, I'm not a fan of the SNP. I just think your 'Scottish Nazi Party' stuff is appalling.)

You are of course fully entitled to your opinion, however erroneous it may be.

BTW if I irritate you that much, ignore is available.

I find you to be tedious, but not quite in the ignore category, as yet.

 

[Sasaferrato]

or we could discuss one of the founders of British fascism, Mosley, erstwhile member of the two big UK parties, or Lloyd George and Churchill's admiration for Mussolini, Churchill using poison gas on Iraqis from the air, or sections of the Royal Family's tacit support for fascism, Nazism and South African apartheid, etc etc etc

where does it get us?

however, we are trying to have a reasonably sensible discussion about the SNP leadership in 2023, without a furious man baby on a permanent tantrum cycle snorting angry political weetabix all over the curtains.

I am not an SNP member or supporter, either.

Just a fellow traveller?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Oh get to fuck

Same to you old chap, how devilishly uncivil of you. Mind you, goes with your political territory, which is very uncivil to non the cultist.

 

[steeplejack]

No, I'm not. But it is interesting to discuss their leadership contest as, whether you like or not, they've been the only game in Scottish electoral politics for an awful long time.

 

[Sue]

You are of course fully entitled to your opinion, however erroneous it may be.

BTW if I irritate you that much, ignore is available.

I find you to be tedious, but not quite in the ignore category, as yet.

Which bit was erroneous exactly?

 

[skyscraper101]

Yousaf seems like the only one who can do media without coming over as massively sub-par.

Forbes is absolutely useless in interviews. Like an even more crap Jo Swinson. Can't tell much about Ash Regan yet but she doesn't seem to have an overly impressive style or even half the gusto of Sturgeon or Mhairi Black. I think electing either of these two will be a vote loser for the party.

 

[weepiper]

I don't want any of the current three on offer. Yousaf is the posh-boy private school continuity Nicola candidate. Forbes is, well, a Wee Free. Regan is pro North Sea oil and motorways. Part of the problem is that there isn't really a good shoe-in anywhere in the wings.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yousaf of course adheres to a religion that in the 21st Century kills people for being gay.

Either he espouses the tenets of his faith, which makes him a bigot, or, he is paying lip service, which makes him a hypocrite.

Add in the absolutely disgraceful conduct towards a Hindu nursery owner, and you have the picture of someone unfit to be an MSP, never mind FM.

Wrong thread - this is the one for loons

 

[kebabking]

Could I ask, as a one with only a passing grasp of Scottish politics, if one or more of our more august Calidonian correspondents could explain to me how Forbes could be in Sturgeons' cabinet given how violently she obviously disagrees with a huge swathe of the SNP policy platform?

I know that parties tent to be broad churches (Ha!! See what I did there??!!), but cabinets are usually less so, and while everyone with disagree about something, disagreeing with the whole lot, particularly when it's this type of stuff, seems to be taking it much further than normal...

 

[Cerv]

Who was the Lib Dem leadership candidate who turned out to hate the gays too? Farron?
Maybe him and Forbes could start a new party together for that sort of thing and keep it out of the mainstream parties who’re actually ever in power.

 

[weepiper]

Could I ask, as a one with only a passing grasp of Scottish politics, if one or more of our more august Calidonian correspondents could explain to me how Forbes could be in Sturgeons' cabinet given how violently she obviously disagrees with a huge swathe of the SNP policy platform?

I know that parties tent to be broad churches (Ha!! See what I did there??!!), but cabinets are usually less so, and while everyone with disagree about something, disagreeing with the whole lot, particularly when it's this type of stuff, seems to be taking it much further than normal...

She got thrust into the cabinet because she was the deputy finance minister when Derek Mackay spectacularly exited his position as her superior, resigning after it turned out he had been sending suggestive messages to a 16 year old boy. He resigned the same day the Scottish budget was due to be announced which was a shade inconvenient. Kate Forbes had to present it instead and was then the most obvious person for the role.

 

[steeplejack]

Could I ask, as a one with only a passing grasp of Scottish politics, if one or more of our more august Calidonian correspondents could explain to me how Forbes could be in Sturgeons' cabinet given how violently she obviously disagrees with a huge swathe of the SNP policy platform?

I know that parties tent to be broad churches (Ha!! See what I did there??!!), but cabinets are usually less so, and while everyone with disagree about something, disagreeing with the whole lot, particularly when it's this type of stuff, seems to be taking it much further than normal...

Forbes was a wee bit of an accident. She was catapaulted into the job of Finance Secretary at 6 hours notice on budget day because her boss Derek Mackay was obliged to resign in disgrace, having been exposed for sending suggestive messages to a 16 year old boy on social media.

Forbes handled that difficult job very well and moved from being ‘one to watch’ to ‘rising star and potential leader’ within literally hours.

The thing is, she was extremely oyal to Sturgeon and absolutely honour bound by collective cabinet responsibility. So whatever obscurantist misgivings she may have had about things like GRR, she loyally followed cabinet majority support for the measure.

The SNP is a very disciplined and tight operation. Apparently her religious predilections were known but Sturgeon was so dominant as a political figure that other ministers had little space to grow their own profiles. To be honest no one really cared. Forbes is also not too long back from maternity leave.

To be honest that unexpected meteoric rise from talented understudy to superstar in one evening, basically, has been her undoing. She seems to have lacked a bit of nous as to how badly this candour on issues of sexuality / morality would play in a post-faith, secular & individualist Scotland.

Oh well. She was on the news tonight saying she’ll press on and teying to make a virtue of it, but it won’t wash. This gale will soon blow over her flimsy shack of a bid for the leadership.

That right wing / beyond the pale loons in Alba & Wings over Scotland are sympathetic to her plight tells you all you need to know.

 

[Ĝasper]

Really surreal to see a potential FM debating theology on STV.

Seems to be a given for mr Yousaf. Saw him singing Murrel's praises too.

 

[redsquirrel]

She seems to have lacked a bit of nous as to how badly this candour on issues of sexuality / morality would play in a post-faith, secular & individualist Scotland.

Likewise the dis-endorsements of a number of her backers shows that a lack a political nous, or even common sense, is not limited to Forbes.
Forbes has hardly been secretive about her religious beliefs a quick chat to find out her positions would seem to be pretty sensible, and standard, idea.

Scottish government ministers Richard Lochhead, Tom Arthur and Clare Haughey have withdrawn their support for Ms Forbes, as have health committee convener Gillian Martin and MP Drew Hendry.

This lot hardly strike me as particularly smart

 

[Ĝasper]

Just an observation. If Yousaf ends up winning there will simultaneously be leaders of Indian/Pakistani descent in Scotland, England and Ireland.

 

[danny la rouge]

Just an observation. If Yousaf ends up winning there will simultaneously be leaders of Indian/Pakistani descent in Scotland, England and Ireland.

And all of them will have been educated at private schools. In Scotland, the Labour and SNP leaders will have been educated at the same private school.

 

[weepiper]

And all of them will have been educated at private schools. In Scotland, the Labour and SNP leaders will have been educated at the same private school.

Plus we'll have gone from the position a few years ago where all the leaders of the three big parties in Scotland were women to them all being men.

 

[danny la rouge]

She got thrust into the cabinet because she was the deputy finance minister when Derek Mackay spectacularly exited his position as her superior, resigning after it turned out he had been sending suggestive messages to a 16 year old boy. He resigned the same day the Scottish budget was due to be announced which was a shade inconvenient. Kate Forbes had to present it instead and was then the most obvious person for the role.

So that’s how she was thrust into the limelight. But I suppose if the question is why did she choose the SNP as her vehicle, well for her generation the SNP has been the party of power. That’s where the ambitious young politico would go.

The SNP has been the party of government for 16 years now. Before that it would have been Labour as the natural choice, in Holyrood and before devolution town halls across Scotland for the preceding century.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I'd be happy with just an impressive leader. Race/gender unimportant.

(I'm still a Green, but it's important we have a strong SNP.)

 

[danny la rouge]

I'd be happy with just an impressive leader. Race/gender unimportant.

I’d discounted Yousaf when first trying to think of a successor the day Sturgeon resigned because he hadn’t covered himself in glory in his current position. He has the charisma to speak on TV, but I wasn’t thinking that would be enough. I knew Swinney wouldn’t stand: he’s been there before and it didn’t suit him - he’s too much of a mild mannered bank manager. And I literally couldn’t think of anyone else. I’d never heard of Ash Regan. So I said maybe Forbes, but from a field of none.

The most impressive performer in the SNP is Mhairi Black. She’s an MP (Westminster), though, and so won’t be in the running. Plus I think she’s a bit too much of an outsider.

 

[Sue]

The most impressive performer in the SNP is Mhairi Black. She’s an MP (Westminster), though, and so won’t be in the running. Plus I think she’s a bit too much of an outsider.

Could they could have an MP as leader/FM, it's more that it doesn't look great? (Not sure how this works and whether the FM has to be in Holyrood.)