size of international anti cap demonstrations
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So go ahead and employ it - demonstrate the path. You're signally failing to so so by posting a series of roll eyes - sunshine.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Cool.
What about partially affecting business for a short time. Does this also get a roll eyes and biblical warning?
What about partially affecting business for a short time. Does this also get a roll eyes and biblical warning?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well frankly, you can whistle mate - esp at 2 am. I was reducing your crude agrument to a stupidity, not offering a defence of anything, your equation of production with business was just too crass to ignore.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're more than welcome - count it back off against your roll eyes enlightenment bollocks above.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You should team up with mears - he has a similiar line of redundant strawman chatter.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How did feudalism change into the capitalism that you argue 'works? Was it by the impostion of a pre-agreed blueprint? Tell us all about the historic transition via blueprint then please.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
See above dumbo
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What on earth do you think a blueprint means? Something like thisIMHO said:
"Just to add, no anti-caps on this site have ever offered a workable transition to any other system"
Or this
"Okay Butchers, I appreciate it's late, but tommorow perhaps you'll enlighten me to the way we'll get the WHOLE WORLD to change."
Yes, i think so. Never implied anything about a blueprint!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You want a blueprint of the past then. Or better, you want a blueprint of the future that looks exactly like the present.IMHO said:
Right, continuing from last night. Blueprint or evolution:
If you're going to change capitalism by consent, you need to convince the world to change, which won't happen unless you present the world with not just a blueprint, but with a bloody good working model of the new system. And even then they may not want to change.
Alternatively, wait for capitalism to evolve into something else. I think you'll be waiting a very long time.
Anti-cap demos. Funny gardening. Now THAT'S the way to convince the majority
Now let me guess the real reason you're anti-capitalist. You're a complete and utter failure in this system, so your excuse for your personal failure is capitalism.
If you're going to change capitalism by consent, you need to convince the world to change, which won't happen unless you present the world with not just a blueprint, but with a bloody good working model of the new system. And even then they may not want to change.
Alternatively, wait for capitalism to evolve into something else. I think you'll be waiting a very long time.
Anti-cap demos. Funny gardening. Now THAT'S the way to convince the majority
Now let me guess the real reason you're anti-capitalist. You're a complete and utter failure in this system, so your excuse for your personal failure is capitalism.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
not wanting to nit pick here ladies, but exactly what relevance does your last page of bickering have to do with the size of anti-cap demonstrations?
can i suggest you try using the start new thread option
can i suggest you try using the start new thread option
free spirit
more tea vicar?
fair enough, the peeps I know who were involved in putting it together definately weren't there, wasn't sure how many people were involved in putting it together, but it really pissed me off that they managed to rewrite history
(unless my copy had a page missing?)
Top Dog
Well-Known Member
i which you'd close your quote tags properly...
... it looks like you're having a conversation with yourself
... it looks like you're having a conversation with yourself
i think re-writing history is a bit of an exageration dont you think? incomplete maybe, but so what? i dont see why you seem to think its such an enormous crime or why the absence of a report about Birmingham merits an in depth investigationfree spirit said:
free spirit
more tea vicar?
sorry fixed the quote now...
hmm well I guess it's really just a relatively minor gripe that's been bugging me for a while.
thing is that I think it's important that people who're coming into the movement for the first time, can actually see a bit more of where it came from, in that it didn't start at J18, it built on the foundations set through the birmingham RTS, the global links that were developed through the global street party, as well as the many RTS's prior to that.
Basically if someone's going to do a history of the global anti-cap movement, then they may as well do it properly, that's all i'm saying really.
hmm well I guess it's really just a relatively minor gripe that's been bugging me for a while.
thing is that I think it's important that people who're coming into the movement for the first time, can actually see a bit more of where it came from, in that it didn't start at J18, it built on the foundations set through the birmingham RTS, the global links that were developed through the global street party, as well as the many RTS's prior to that.
Basically if someone's going to do a history of the global anti-cap movement, then they may as well do it properly, that's all i'm saying really.
Top Dog
Well-Known Member
im sure there are no shortage of people writing these partial histories from various angles. But the fact is you cant draw a line a the sand and say this or that is the event that started the ball rolling. I could come back at you and ask 'what about Reclaim the Future?' (London RTS solidarity with the striking Liverpool dockers in 97 -- who were receiving worldwide solidarity from other dockers/wharfies/longshawmen). Someone else will point to the first 'encuentro' initiated by the Zapatistas in 96. All of these inititives are moments in the reorientation of a milieu and which that led to the development of further initiatives.free spirit said:
Plus most people outside UK haven't even heard of J18 and GLobal Street Party. It is very much contained me thinks to the UK so to say. IF anything the global spark WAS seattle as from that point on EVERYONE and NOT just the activists were getting all excited, though perhaps WE started 6 months earliar on J18 with a bit of ultra-violence and perhaps we were all still buzzing from that with N30 & MAYDAY.
Raw
Raw
Top Dog said:
Buds and Spawn
...if I can't dance...
But J18 WAS global. Whatever it's called anywhere else.
And if it hadn't happened Seattle wouldn't have... Of course, the same goes for every event... Consequently, it's almost pointless to try to define the starting point.
But saying that... I'd pick 1998 for the most recent incarnation of resistance... with special mention to J18 for raising the stakes.
And if it hadn't happened Seattle wouldn't have... Of course, the same goes for every event... Consequently, it's almost pointless to try to define the starting point.
But saying that... I'd pick 1998 for the most recent incarnation of resistance... with special mention to J18 for raising the stakes.
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