Should the Trade unions form a new left leaning party?

[ViolentPanda]

Please tell me you're on the windup.

Of course he isn't.

Funny, isn't it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Give up trying to reason with ViolentPanda ,ResistanceMP3, he's a perpetual argumentalist. BUT Is he really a 15 year old Tory Troll just winding us Lefties up do you think ? I think the evidence points that way.

How very childish and very predictable.

 

[Dan U]

i'm chuckling to myself at the idea of VP as a 15 year old tory troll

i've never met the man, but jesus christ

 

[DotCommunist]

I always suspected.

 

[Onket]

He's been posting here since he was 5 years old. That's dedication.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Agreed! btw www.resistanceMP3.org.uk

No, he's an U75 anarchist. As you say, their sole purpose seems to be to pull everything apart, whilst producing/offering no meaningful manifestation of an alternative strategy.

Because grassroots activism the way that some anarchists practice it doesn't fit in with the template for action most parties have, and is therefore not "meaningful" to those parties.
I don't "do" politics for the benefit of a party that may or may not eventually benefit "my" community, I "do" politics in that community for the direct benefit of my community, in accordance with the wishes of that community, no strings attached.

 

[ViolentPanda]

He's been posting here since he was 5 years old. That's dedication.

What can I say? I got a messiah complex very young!

 

[fenrisx]

It's difficult to imagine such a party having much success. People are pissed off with politics generally. And political parties, whatever good intentions they might start off with, always come under increasing pressure to drop any radical ideas as they get nearer to forming a government. Germany had a Green-Socialist alliance government a few years ago, but the effects of that weren't exactly revolutionary.

A better idea would be a big pressure group aimed at defending the interests of workers and stopping the ruling class from abusing their power. But for that to work, it would be important that they are NOT tempted to become a party. Otherwise they would end up just the same as all the others, which is exactly what happened to the Labour Party.

The UK is a Communist land of wankers, WANKERS!

 

[articul8]

The UK is a Communist land

good, now fuck off out of it

 

[DotCommunist]

The UK is a Communist land of wankers, WANKERS!

you wouldn't know communism if it shat in your mouth

 

[ViolentPanda]

you wouldn't know communism if it shat in your mouth

Be fair, most of the thick cunts who bleat about communism wouldn't know it if it shat in their mouths.

 

[butchersapron]

 

[audiotech]

VP a 15 year old tory! Hahahaha! He'll be living off that remark for a while.

 

[SpineyNorman]

VP a 15 year old tory! Hahahaha! He'll be living off that remark for a while.

Sounds like the perfect tagline to me

 

[SpineyNorman]

The UK is a Communist land of wankers, WANKERS!

Don't listen to the looney lefties on here mate, anyone with an ounce of common sense knows you're right.

You know who I think are the biggest wankers in the UK? The Communist monarchy. WANKERS! the lot of them!

 

[TremulousTetra]

Oh come on.
We've both spent many decades moving in political circles, so we tend to see political action as a continuum (even when it is often "one step forward, two steps back"), but how many "non-political" (in an immediately ideological sense) people went on the big marches of the last decade? Many hundreds of thousands. How many of them were radicalised by it enough to reflect strongly in participation in political groups, single-issue groups etc, to actually become part of that continuum of action?

We both know that the answer is (unfortunately) "not many". It'd certainly be wonderful if people were as amenable to radicalisation as they were in Rosa's time, but the differing (social and economic) conditions between then and now mean that even with what ayatollah quantified as "the tens of millions who have lost their jobs and homes across the developed economies since 2008", a majority of those victims of capitalism have not felt sufficiently harmed by their situations to step beyond the standard electoral political set-ups extant in their countries. Until that happens (G-d help them ), until the tipping point of people saying "these cunts are just feathering the nests of their mates and themselves, and leaving us to pick up the tab. Let's get 'em", then "these cunts" aren't going to shft from what they're doing. Not when they've got their armed police and private security, their safely secured homes and hideaways behind which to shelter.

Remember the slogan "one solution, revolution"? Well fuck knows I don't pray for a bloody revolution, I've seen too much blood in my half a century, but I do hope for some kind of revolution in politics that shatters the grip of Capital on our political institutions. I happen to see it as needing to be "bottom up" rather than "top-down", though.

you actually believe I/SW disagree with the single word that, don't you?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Because grassroots activism the way that some anarchists practice it doesn't fit in with the template for action most parties have, and is therefore not "meaningful" to those parties.
I don't "do" politics for the benefit of a party that may or may not eventually benefit "my" community, I "do" politics in that community for the direct benefit of my community, in accordance with the wishes of that community, no strings attached.

Hey, feel free to point to ANYTHING "meaningful" to ANY community, anarchist's in UK have inspired/done/facilitated.

 

[DotCommunist]

did he not prefer the cleveland steamers to be curled out on his chest rather than into his gob?

 

[ViolentPanda]

you actually believe I/SW disagree with the single word that, don't you?

No, I don't. In fact I plainly stated at the beginning of the post "We've both spent many decades moving in political circles...", and at the start of the 2d paragraph "We both know that the answer is...".

You're not always this obtuse.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hey, feel free to point to ANYTHING "meaningful" to ANY community, anarchist's in UK have inspired/done/facilitated.

Quantify your definition of "meaningful", please.

 

[ViolentPanda]

did he not prefer the cleveland steamers to be curled out on his chest rather than into his gob?

Only so he could eat them at leisure.

 

[TremulousTetra]

The 1970's break up of the Bretton Woods international monetary system is seen as a vital part of the global deregulation of capitalism , a prerequisite for both further global expansion and laying the seeds of the eventual 2008 global crisis. Despite early post war denials no-one but the most blinkered Trot was claiming by the 60's that the post WWII period hadn't represented the single longest general expansion of capitalism , and rising living standards, in world history - regardless of many short term cyclical recessions..

No-one has claimed otherwise (except perhaps RMP3, and he doesn't count). A crisis of capitalism doesn't necessarily equate to a crisis for capitalism. It equates to a crisis for those who suffer most under capitalism.

Now why just make shit up like that VP?

What have I made up?

"No-one has claimed otherwise (except perhaps RMP3, and he doesn't count)." Where did I claim otherwise, perhaps?

Anyway, forget. You have no interest whatsoever and looking at things from a different perspective.you made your mind up, on everything.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Quantify your definition of "meaningful", please.

what has my definition got to do with anything? It is your claim, back it up with an example that a UK community would consider meaningful.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"No-one has claimed otherwise (except perhaps RMP3, and he doesn't count)." Where did I claim otherwise, perhaps?

So it's okay for you to display a sense of humour and make little jokes at the expense of others, because you put a smiley after it, but when I make a fairly obvious dig that compares you with the "blinkered trot" in ayatollah's narrative, you not only don't get it, you throw a strop too. Well done!

Anyway, forget. You have no interest whatsoever and looking at things from a different perspective.you made your mind up, on everything.

Being taken to task about not "looking at things from a different perspective" by you, well that's a joke and a half that is, coming from you!

BTW, don't tell me what I think, there's a good chap.

 

[ViolentPanda]

what has my definition got to do with anything? It is your claim, back it up with an example that a UK community would consider meaningful.

Jesus, it's like talking to a breeze block.

Because unless I know how you define the word (as helping a single person, a dozen, an entire community, an entire polity) then I not only don't know what you mean by "meaningful", I can't know what you mean by "...that a UK community would consider meaningful", can I?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Everyone on here is aware that whatever the argument you almost always tow or tout the SWP line, and as ayatollah mentioned "blinkered Trots" you came naturally to mind.

Where as you don't always put the 'anarchist' line?

it's called the point of view. that the U75 anarchists have completely failed to dent that point of view in 10 years, speaks more of the paucity of your alternative. Especially when you consider, I haven't got a clue what the SWP line is these days. I read far more of your words, that I do theirs.

 

[TremulousTetra]

So it's okay for you to display a sense of humour and make little jokes at the expense of others, because you put a smiley after it, but when I make a fairly obvious dig that compares you with the "blinkered trot" in ayatollah's narrative, you not only don't get it, you throw a strop too. Well done!

Being taken to task about not "looking at things from a different perspective" by you, well that's a joke and a half that is, coming from you!

BTW, don't tell me what I think, there's a good chap.

Your on drugs.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Jesus, it's like talking to a breeze block.

Because unless I know how you define the word (as helping a single person, a dozen, an entire community, an entire polity) then I not only don't know what you mean by "meaningful", I can't know what you mean by "...that a UK community would consider meaningful", can I?

as usual, nothing.

Surprise surprise.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Please tell me you're on the windup.

Whoosh!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Where as you don't always put the 'anarchist' line?

There isn't an anarchist line, you Norbert.

it's called the point of view. that the U75 anarchists have completely failed to dent that point of view in 10 years, speaks more of the paucity of your alternative.

Anarchisms don't offer an alternative way of doing party politics, they offer an alternative way of being, and of conceiving politics that doesn't tend to include top-down diktat as a feature of "policy" formation.

Especially when you consider, I haven't got a clue what the SWP line is these days. I read far more of your words, that I do theirs.

I'll believe you. Thousands wouldn't!