Should the Covid vaccine be mandatory?

[ItWillNeverWork]

I'd be willing to put money behind it being a different story here.

And how can we know? Don't we run the risk of becoming like people who confront others parking in disabled spaces only to find out they actually have a valid reason to do so? I don't like the idea of people policing each other in this way. We simply can't tell what another person may be going through.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

To your fist point. No, just until it is safe to do so.

To your second point. Would that be more seriously ill than catching Covid?

Possibly, yes.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yes, so would I. IIRC those who are 'medically exempt' are able to get an official indicator of this?

Maybe she should have stapled her papers to her forehead just so you know it's official. Or maybe you leave it to the shop to deal with.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yes, so would I. IIRC those who are 'medically exempt' are able to get an official indicator of this?

And why the fuck do you put the words 'medically exempt' in scare quotes?

 

[LDC]

And how can we know? Don't we run the risk of becoming like people who confront others parking in disabled spaces only to find out they actually have a valid reason to do so? I don't like the idea of people policing each other in this way. We simply can't tell what another person may be going through.

No, we don't know. But anti-vaxxers, mask refusers, and right wing libertarians have created an atmosphere of selfish individualism where many people falsely claim 'exemption' at the expense of genuinely clinically vulnerable people, possibly at the expense of their life.

So it's not surprising that many of us raise an eyebrow at the fact there seem to be dozens of people in every shop and space that are 'medically exempt' from wearing a thin piece of cloth over their nose and mouth sometimes.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

No, we don't know. But anti-vaxxers, mask refusers, and right wing libertarians have created an atmosphere of selfish individualism where so many people falsely claim 'exemption' at the expense of genuinely clinically vulnerable people. So it's not surprising that many of us raise an eyebrow at the fact there seem to be dozens of people in every shop and space that are 'medically exempt' from wearing a thin piece of cloth over there nose and mouth sometimes.

There are also people who commit benefit fraud. I suppose we should start suspecting everyone of being a 'scrounger' and 'dole-scum', because this is exactly the mentality that right-wingers have traditionally adopted. And now here it is on the left just directed at a different group. Unbelievable.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What's so funny, LynnDoyleCooper?

 

[LDC]

There are also people who commit benefit fraud. I suppose we should start suspecting everyone of being a 'scrounger' and 'dole-scum', because this is exactly the mentality that right-wingers have traditionally adopted. And now here it is on the left just directed at a different group. Unbelievable.

People playing the capitalist system in order to survive vs. people ignoring collective public health measures for selfish individualism. Great comparison.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

People playing the capitalist system in order to survive vs. people ignoring collective public health measures for selfish individualism. Great comparison.

Are you fucking thick? I'm talking about people who are genuinely medically exempt because they can't breathe properly being judged by total strangers.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Maybe she should have stapled her papers to her forehead just so you know it's official. Or maybe you leave it to the shop to deal with.

Not quite sure what you are on about here. At no point did I say that I had 'confronted' the person, because I didn't.

I'm finding your position here a bit odd.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Not quite sure what you are on about here. At no point did I say that I had 'confronted' the person, because I didn't.

I'm finding your position here a bit odd.

Your assumption that she was faking it is the problem. What should medically-exempt people do exactly?

 

[Supine]

And why the fuck do you put the words 'medically exempt' in scare quotes?

Its code for ‘Absolute Melts’ primarily as they are only pretending to be exempt.

 

[LDC]

Are you fucking thick? I'm talking about people who are genuinely medically exempt because they can't breathe properly being judged by total strangers.

I thought we were talking about people that don't wear a mask and the reasons why they don't; some of which will be genuine medical exemptions and some of which are just people refusing to, and the difference between the two, and why some people might be skeptical about the amount of people not wearing masks all being genuinely medically exempt.

 

[Sasaferrato]

And why the fuck do you put the words 'medically exempt' in scare quotes?

I put medically exempt in quotes, to indicate that I am aware that people can be exempt, but did not know the correct nomenclature. This is fairly usual I think?

Again, I am finding your position somewhat odd.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The state of this fucking thread is unbearable. I'm off.

 

[IC3D]

Covid be like

 

[LDC]

10/10 flounce. Can you stay away, that's the question?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Your assumption that she was faking it is the problem. What should medically-exempt people do exactly?

I was pointing out that I didn't think the NHS (or whoever issues the exemption passes) would issue a badge that looked like those off children's birthday cards. A reasonable point I would have thought.

Your responses are beginning to resemble those of the anti-vax brigade.

 

[LDC]

Covid be like

Any chance of answering why you think the WHO, JCVI, etc. all over the world are wrong and vaccinating people as we are is 'wrong headed'?

 

[Sasaferrato]

10/10 flounce. Can you stay away, that's the question?

Doubt it.

 

[LDC]

What are their 'perfectly good reasons'? The non-vaccinated people I have met in the NHS have no good reason, but have a messy mix of anti-vax misinformation/conspiracy theories/religious fundamentalism/or similar as their 'justification'.



And given all the public health bodies (across the world btw) think jabbing 'otherwise healthy people' is the correct thing to do, I'd be interested where people you know (or is it just you?) get their evidence and belief that it's all 'wrong headed'?

What's your role in the NHS btw?

There you go, so you don't have to scroll back IC3D.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Any chance of answering why you think the WHO, JCVI, etc. all over the world are wrong and vaccinating people as we are is 'wrong headed'?

Because, you know, the WHO etc are them. The ones behind it all. Do your own research, and so on, and such and such.

 

[LDC]

I mean at least that would be an answer we could chat about. Cowardly and/or ignorant as fuck to make big statements along the lines of 'vaccinating as we are is wrong headed' and then not even explain why they think that and what they can back it up with.

I mean off the top of my head you could have some discussion about 2 jabs being enough for healthy people and no boosters should be given to them but instead supplied to other parts of the world with poor vaccine access. But given they've used the term 'so-called vaccines' I think that might not be their actual position?

 

[Yossarian]

I was pointing out that I didn't think the NHS (or whoever issues the exemption passes) would issue a badge that looked like those off children's birthday cards. A reasonable point I would have thought.

Your responses are beginning to resemble those of the anti-vax brigade.

Is there anybody issuing exemption passes? The NHS just has templates for people to print their own. Looks like they're for sale on Amazon as well.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

10/10 flounce. Can you stay away, that's the question?

Well to be fair, he has got a war to prepare for.

 

[gentlegreen]

Singing​

There is a reasonable excuse for someone to remove a face covering when it is reasonably necessary for them to sing, for example, if they are singing as part of a choir, or during a service, rehearsal or for a performance.

This does not extend to circumstances where it is not reasonably necessary to sing. For example, it may not be reasonably necessary for someone to sing whilst shopping, on public transport, or whilst in an in-scope setting such as a cinema, theatre or library."

[Withdrawn] [Withdrawn] Face coverings: when to wear one, exemptions and what makes a good one

www.gov.uk

 

[Gramsci]

I think I have stated my views clearly, if in doubt read them again.

What on earth do you mean by health issues enshrining personal freedom?

Maybe not worded that well.

This recent short look at making the vaccine mandatory by World Health Organisation looks at the ethical issues that States/ public authorities should evaluate before putting in place a mandatory policy for vaccination.

WHO definition of mandatory includes the making life difficult for those not vaccinated view. Which WHO rightly see as making vaccination mandatory in practice (your view)

WHO say individual liberty and personal autonomy are important when considering effect of mandate on them.

It's also imo taking a broad view. How mandatory vaccination could affect already oppressed or marginalised communities. Furthering inequality as unintended effect.

The doc is putting forward guidelines for those looking at mandatory vaccination.

WHO position is for persuasion and public health education. Not for mandatory vaccination.

One reason being that mandatory vaccination could undermine public trust in the authorities. It could be counterproductive.

Whole doc reads as saying that States/ institution (and people) shouldn't jump to decision that mandatory vaccination is a good thing or necessary.

Given the quick spread of the virus at start of pandemic a lot of measures had to brought in quickly without the usual democratic process.

It's now looking to me that the virus is here to stay for near future. Its something societies will have to learn to live with for X number of years.

So now it's time to take more seriously things like individual liberty and personal autonomy.

As James Meadway said in previous link I posted if this conversation doesn't start then it will be left with the anti Vax loons and far right.

Arguing for individual liberty doesn't imo mean one is being ridiculous.

I think the WHO paper realises this.

 

[8ball]

WHO definition of mandatory includes the making life difficult for those not vaccinated view. Which WHO rightly see as making vaccination mandatory in practice (your view)

I think it becomes effectively mandatory when making things difficult is part of the point.

Not so much if it's just a pretty unavoidable effect of the measures to keep people safe.

 

[kebabking]

ER=25126]IC3D[/USER] interested in your answers to this.

Busy.

 

[8ball]

Mmm. Maple syrup and icing sugar.

V. festive.