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Sheridan abandons hope for the SSP and tries to form new party

mutley said:
Well obviously ppl are going to want to see this meeting and judge it for themselves. Are you saying that the quite impressive looking SW photo is masking a huge number of Southern socialists?

Now is anyone going to tell anything more about the Sat meeting? In this context, no news sounds like noone's rushing to tell us about an unimpressive event. If I'm wrong tell us about it.
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Any truth in the suggestion that Respect held at camp at Arran that weekend to get some punters up from south of the border?

Darren
Inveresk Street Ingrate Blog
 
and here are some comments from attendees -

“I was at the launch of Solidarity- Scotlands Socialist Movement yesterday. The hall seated 500, there was not one spare seat and well over a hundred were standing. In contrast, a friend informs me that the SSP had 250-300. The new party is outward looking, determined to fight for low paid workers, against the war and for the environment. The old SSP spent more time denouncing Sheridan than anything else. They are yesterday's news. Watch the new movement grow and even more SSP members join. The cabal at the top of the SSP will evaporate into the hate filled, Sheridan obssesed hot air they generate.”

“Like ****, I was at the Solidarity meeting yesterday. His account of the numbers attending is quite correct. I was not a member of the SSP but I will be a member of Solidarity. The enthusiasm of the socialists present leaves me in no doubt that this movement will rapidly become the true voice of socialism in Scotland.”

“My friend was at both meetings and she said that one of them talked about nothing other than Tommy Sheridan, sadly it was the SSP meeting on Saturday.
The Sunday meeting had twice as many people and was, according to my friend, uplifting. The main point she made was that Solidarity had lots of speakers, mostly women, from different backgrounds and Tommy Sheridan was only on for 10 minutes at the end. The SSP meeting was a serious of, mainly male, speakers from the executive, and Colin Fox went on (about Tommy Sheridan) for ages.
She was an SSP member a few years ago but left, she joined Solidarity yesterday.”
 
nwnm said:
and here are some comments from attendees -

“I was at the launch of Solidarity- Scotlands Socialist Movement yesterday. The hall seated 500, there was not one spare seat and well over a hundred were standing. In contrast, a friend informs me that the SSP had 250-300. The new party is outward looking, determined to fight for low paid workers, against the war and for the environment. The old SSP spent more time denouncing Sheridan than anything else. They are yesterday's news. Watch the new movement grow and even more SSP members join. The cabal at the top of the SSP will evaporate into the hate filled, Sheridan obssesed hot air they generate.”

“Like ****, I was at the Solidarity meeting yesterday. His account of the numbers attending is quite correct. I was not a member of the SSP but I will be a member of Solidarity. The enthusiasm of the socialists present leaves me in no doubt that this movement will rapidly become the true voice of socialism in Scotland.”

“My friend was at both meetings and she said that one of them talked about nothing other than Tommy Sheridan, sadly it was the SSP meeting on Saturday.
The Sunday meeting had twice as many people and was, according to my friend, uplifting. The main point she made was that Solidarity had lots of speakers, mostly women, from different backgrounds and Tommy Sheridan was only on for 10 minutes at the end. The SSP meeting was a serious of, mainly male, speakers from the executive, and Colin Fox went on (about Tommy Sheridan) for ages.
She was an SSP member a few years ago but left, she joined Solidarity yesterday.”
Click to expand...

And divided already.

http://www.cwiscotland.org/
 
nwnm said:
and here are some comments from attendees -

“I was at the launch of Solidarity- Scotlands Socialist Movement yesterday. The hall seated 500, there was not one spare seat and well over a hundred were standing. In contrast, a friend informs me that the SSP had 250-300. The new party is outward looking, determined to fight for low paid workers, against the war and for the environment. The old SSP spent more time denouncing Sheridan than anything else. They are yesterday's news. Watch the new movement grow and even more SSP members join. The cabal at the top of the SSP will evaporate into the hate filled, Sheridan obssesed hot air they generate.”

“Like ****, I was at the Solidarity meeting yesterday. His account of the numbers attending is quite correct. I was not a member of the SSP but I will be a member of Solidarity. The enthusiasm of the socialists present leaves me in no doubt that this movement will rapidly become the true voice of socialism in Scotland.”

“My friend was at both meetings and she said that one of them talked about nothing other than Tommy Sheridan, sadly it was the SSP meeting on Saturday.
The Sunday meeting had twice as many people and was, according to my friend, uplifting. The main point she made was that Solidarity had lots of speakers, mostly women, from different backgrounds and Tommy Sheridan was only on for 10 minutes at the end. The SSP meeting was a serious of, mainly male, speakers from the executive, and Colin Fox went on (about Tommy Sheridan) for ages.
She was an SSP member a few years ago but left, she joined Solidarity yesterday.”
Click to expand...

Excuse the cynicism but I remember Mark Steel taking the piss out of such breathless accounts of meetings and movements in his wonderfully funny book 'Reasons to be Cheerful'. Granted he was using it as an excuse to take a sideswipe at the Millies, but now that the Sheridan, the Socialist Worker Platform and the CWI are working together in Scotland, the future also looks bright for socialism south of the border.

No truth in the rumour that, taking a leaf out of of Respect's book of adopting the Aretha Franklin's anthem Respect, Solidarity are thinking of approaching Tony Wilson to ask for permission to use New Order's 'Bizarre Love Triangle' as its theme song?

Darren
 
Now that the CWI have taken to criticise SWP, how long will it be before the formerr says that it can no longer be in the same organisation as the latter?

History repeats itself first as...
 
imposs1904 said:
No truth in the rumour that, taking a leaf out of of Respect's book of adopting the Aretha Franklin's anthem Respect, Solidarity are thinking of approaching Tony Wilson to ask for permission to use New Order's 'Bizarre Love Triangle' as its theme song?
Click to expand...

No, it's got to be 'The Impossible Dream' as sung by Tommy's mum at the end of his rally.

A truly memorable experience and one that has put to rest any notions I have ever had that Tommy has an ego the size of a planet or 'issues' with women. He's just a regular God.

To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star

This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far

To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause

And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest

And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star
 
nwnm said:
“My friend was at both meetings and she said that one of them talked about nothing other than Tommy Sheridan, sadly it was the SSP meeting on Saturday.
The Sunday meeting had twice as many people and was, according to my friend, uplifting. The main point she made was that Solidarity had lots of speakers, mostly women, from different backgrounds and Tommy Sheridan was only on for 10 minutes at the end. The SSP meeting was a serious of, mainly male, speakers from the executive, and Colin Fox went on (about Tommy Sheridan) for ages.
She was an SSP member a few years ago but left, she joined Solidarity yesterday.”
Click to expand...

I was at the saturday meeting and the women speakers were, (from memory) the chair, Morag Balfour. Carolyn Leckie, a woman ssy member, Rosie Kane, Rose Gentle (who spoke at both) a woman asylum seeker. The male speakers, (from memory) were Ritchie Venton, a male ssy member who did slam poetry, John Macallion and Colin Fox.

Hardly a sucession of male speakers I would have thought.
 
justuname said:
No, it's got to be 'The Impossible Dream' as sung by Tommy's mum at the end of his rally.

A truly memorable experience and one that has put to rest any notions I have ever had that Tommy has an ego the size of a planet or 'issues' with women. He's just a regular God.

To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star

This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far

To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause

And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest

And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star
Click to expand...

I'm afraid we couldnt match those artistic heigths on saturday. Only a woman member sining a somg by Burns followed by the Internationale.
 
tollbar said:
I was at the saturday meeting and the women speakers were, (from memory) the chair, Morag Balfour. Carolyn Leckie, a woman ssy member, Rosie Kane, Rose Gentle (who spoke at both) a woman asylum seeker. The male speakers, (from memory) were Ritchie Venton, a male ssy member who did slam poetry, John Macallion and Colin Fox.

Hardly a sucession of male speakers I would have thought.
Click to expand...

indeed, not to mention the head count at the SSP rally. I did a quick estimate.

There were two aisles of 9seats each. There were 28rows. More chairs were then brought in an people were still standing at the back. That means 504 seats then more brought in and people standing. So 400low end as there were a few seats around empty when I did a count. 500 more accurate, 600if you are on crack.

But according to the papers this room held 900 for solidarity and even though it looked full; 250 for the SSP. We need to book the Tardis more often for meetings.

That said I await the figures of the membership of Solidarity and the attendance figures from registration of the SSP rally before finalising on any figure. The ones in the press are clearly pulled out of the reporters ass for both meetings.
 
Any Solidarity member care to explain to us simpletons what the *political* differences will be in their manifesto compared to the SSP?

And can you get someone to send in some more greetings on the pisspoor website - so far there's only one from a teaching union branch sec and an ex-SSP branch sec... both the same person. :confused:
 
just noticed they are throwing their lot in with MAB ,bad move imo, I wonder does Rose Gentle, know that they and the SWP support her sons killers in the 'resistance'
 
treelover said:
just noticed they are throwing their lot in with MAB ,bad move imo, I wonder does Rose Gentle, know that they and the SWP support her sons killers in the 'resistance'
Click to expand...
You may be right, but I'm not sure yet.

The MABites and their fellow travellers, the Islamo-Trots of the Social Workers' Party, are keen for soLIdARity to become an organ of Islamism among the Scots, but their fellow Sheridanites in the CWI have an old-fashioned Trot objection to 'popular fronts' and Big Tommy's view is yet to be known (and, perhaps, is yet to be decided).

Scotland is less infested with Islam than England. The Tartan Trots (Nipple Clamp Tendency) may decide not to prostrate themselves before Islam - there being fewer votes in the craven Islamophile game there than there are in the East End of London or in Brum.

Dunno. We'll see.
 
JHE said:
You may be right, but I'm not sure yet.

The MABites and their fellow travellers, the Islamo-Trots of the Social Workers' Party, are keen for soLIdARity to become an organ of Islamism among the Scots, but their fellow Sheridanites in the CWI have an old-fashioned Trot objection to 'popular fronts' and Big Tommy's view is yet to be known (and, perhaps, is yet to be decided).

Scotland is less infested with Islam than England. The Tartan Trots (Nipple Clamp Tendency) may decide not to prostrate themselves before Islam - there being fewer votes in the craven Islamophile game there than there are in the East End of London or in Brum.

Dunno. We'll see.
Click to expand...

'Infested'. That's an interesting word. The BNP would echo its use.
 
treelover said:
just noticed they are throwing their lot in with MAB ,bad move imo, I wonder does Rose Gentle, know that they and the SWP support her sons killers in the 'resistance'
Click to expand...

Why the "scare quotes" around resistance? Presumably you think its unacceptable for Iraqis to resist the military occupation of their country? As far as I'm aware, Rose Gentle lays the blame for her sons death at the hands of Tony Blair for sending him to war under false pretences.

As for the MAB, I trust you applaud their efforts to secure the release of hostages taken in Iraq?
 
Alan G said:
indeed, not to mention the head count at the SSP rally. I did a quick estimate.

There were two aisles of 9seats each. There were 28rows. More chairs were then brought in an people were still standing at the back. That means 504 seats then more brought in and people standing. So 400low end as there were a few seats around empty when I did a count. 500 more accurate, 600if you are on crack.

But according to the papers this room held 900 for solidarity and even though it looked full; 250 for the SSP. We need to book the Tardis more often for meetings.

That said I await the figures of the membership of Solidarity and the attendance figures from registration of the SSP rally before finalising on any figure. The ones in the press are clearly pulled out of the reporters ass for both meetings.
Click to expand...

Myself and another comrade from my branch estimated it at 400+ based on a similar calculation.
 
Alan G said:
But according to the papers this room held 900 for solidarity and even though it looked full; 250 for the SSP. We need to book the Tardis more often for meetings.
Click to expand...
Nobody has cited any newspaper stating 900 at the solidarity rally <did you make it up?>. Its interesting that even the record comes up with a similar figure to Socialist Worker at 5-600. As no newspaper except the record has given a figure for the SSP <not even the SSP friendly Guardian> we can deduce it was obviously smaller. You have also missed the small point that the first ever rally by Solidarity was roughly twice the size of the ssp's. This doesn't auger well for the SSP in the long term.....
 
nwnm said:
Nobody has cited any newspaper stating 900 at the solidarity rally <did you make it up?>. Its interesting that even the record comes up with a similar figure to Socialist Worker at 5-600. As no newspaper except the record has given a figure for the SSP <not even the SSP friendly Guardian> we can deduce it was obviously smaller. You have also missed the small point that the first ever rally by Solidarity was roughly twice the size of the ssp's. This doesn't auger well for the SSP in the long term.....
Click to expand...

Having checked the only one I can see with that figure was the herald which on second glance says a weekend tally of 900 - for both rallys. I was sure one had claimed 900 but given the number of articles Ive read over the past few days it might have been in another or I may have just mixed it up.
 
nwnm said:
Nobody has cited any newspaper stating 900 at the solidarity rally <did you make it up?>. Its interesting that even the record comes up with a similar figure to Socialist Worker at 5-600. As no newspaper except the record has given a figure for the SSP <not even the SSP friendly Guardian> we can deduce it was obviously smaller. You have also missed the small point that the first ever rally by Solidarity was roughly twice the size of the ssp's. This doesn't auger well for the SSP in the long term.....
Click to expand...


The Herald gave a combined figure of 900.

The Solidarity rally was forecast beforehand to be a bigger event then the SSP rally because Sheridan since the trial has been interviewed by almost every media outlet in scotland on an almost daily basis and the Solidarity rally had been heavily trailled on radio and TV at the weekend, so beyond those who would have attended anyway there were the plain curious, there were also members of the SSP there to see how things developed, the press and (ahem) quite a number of people with english accents not previously sighted on the left scene in scotland.

Its not the numbers at the competing organisations that are important, its how those numbers are deployed in the months to come.
 
cwi reports

latest on socialistworld.net http://www.socialistworld.net/
Scotland: Build a class-based socialist party

New socialist movement must fight on bold socialist policies
International Socialists, CWI Scotland, Tuesday 5 September 2006.

Scotland: Solidarity- Scotland’s Socialist Movement launched during packed rally
International Socialists, CWI Scotland, Tuesday 5 September 2006
 
jackdoor said:
Scotland: Build a class-based socialist party
Click to expand...
Oh dear. That sounds suspiciously like opposition to the MAB and to having an alliance with Muslim businessmen. I see trouble ahead.
 
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