Sheridan abandons hope for the SSP and tries to form new party

[Fullyplumped]

‘Scotland is big enough for more than one socialist party. I predict thousands will join us’

FORMER Scottish Socialist Party (SSP) leader Tommy Sheridan has revealed that several Scottish celebrities, including actor and director Peter Mullan, are to join him in forming a new political party. “It’s time to build a new organisation out of comrades, not collaborators. I am confident we can build a new, bigger and better socialist vehicle,” he said. He claimed that David McKay and Martin McCardie, both Glasgow-born actors, writers and directors, will join him forming the new unnamed party.


It is not known whether Sheridan will lead the new party. He said it is a decision that will be made by the electorate. He said: “I don’t know who will lead it. Those who join it will decide who, but it has to be grassroots and will concentrate on politics, not personalities.​

 

[imposs1904]

It's My Party

http://www.sundayherald.com/57447

Funny that it's not supposed to be about names and personalities but policies, and yet the only names mentioned in the Sheridan puff piece in the Herald are three actors.

The rest of Tommy Sheridan's bairns are marked down as "miners, nurses and everyday workers".

Bless

 

[JoePolitix]

Split deepens

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1221792006

 

[treelover]

sounds like a Respect type vehicle, just what the SWP want

Scotland is a big enough for more than one socialist party"

 

[Hawkeye Pearce]

Just as it seemed that the SSP were growing into a political force, the whole Sheridan affair blew up. Great how lefties can commit hiri kiri so easily
Just out of interest what did Sheridan do back in 1990 regarding the poll tax riots?

 

[Bear]

Just as it seemed that the SSP were growing into a political force, the whole Sheridan affair blew up. Great how lefties can commit hiri kiri so easily
Just out of interest what did Sheridan do back in 1990 regarding the poll tax riots?

He was a leader in the Scottish anti-poll tax campaign, when a certain single mother in Glasgow didn't pay her poll tax there was to be a warrent sale; a warrent sale is a horrible thing they had in Scotland at that time when officers force their way into a persons home and took away their things to be auctioned off to pay debt (Tommy Sheridan got warrent sales scrapped after he became an MSP). Anyway, a single parent was being subjected to a warrent sale to pay her poll tax debt, before that happened a court gave Tommy an order not to show up at the warrent sale, Tommy turned up with the court order and about 200 people ripped up the court order and the warrent sale had to be cancelled due to fears of the crowed rioting and kicking the shit out the governments debt collecting thugs. Tommy got jailed for defying the court order, when he was in jail he was elected as a councillor.

 

[articul8]

He was a leader in the Scottish anti-poll tax campaign, when a certain single mother in Glasgow didn't pay her poll tax there was to be a warrent sale; a warrent sale is a horrible thing they had in Scotland at that time when officers force their way into a persons home and took away their things to be auctioned off to pay debt (Tommy Sheridan got warrent sales scrapped after he became an MSP). Anyway, a single parent was being subjected to a warrent sale to pay her poll tax debt, before that happened a court gave Tommy an order not to show up at the warrent sale, Tommy turned up with the court order and about 200 people ripped up the court order and the warrent sale had to be cancelled due to fears of the crowed rioting and kicking the shit out the governments debt collecting thugs. Tommy got jailed for defying the court order, when he was in jail he was elected as a councillor.

exactly right - he played a very important role in the mass campaign of civil disobedience (especially non-payment of the tax) which ultimately defeated Thatcher's plans. The fact that he may have attacked rioting as counter-productive does nothing to undermine the substantial support and credibility he achieved in Scotland thanks to his role in that struggle.

 

[exosculate]

He was a leader in the Scottish anti-poll tax campaign, when a certain single mother in Glasgow didn't pay her poll tax there was to be a warrent sale; a warrent sale is a horrible thing they had in Scotland at that time when officers force their way into a persons home and took away their things to be auctioned off to pay debt (Tommy Sheridan got warrent sales scrapped after he became an MSP). Anyway, a single parent was being subjected to a warrent sale to pay her poll tax debt, before that happened a court gave Tommy an order not to show up at the warrent sale, Tommy turned up with the court order and about 200 people ripped up the court order and the warrent sale had to be cancelled due to fears of the crowed rioting and kicking the shit out the governments debt collecting thugs. Tommy got jailed for defying the court order, when he was in jail he was elected as a councillor.

Nice - and he was a total twunt after the poll tax demo 1990. I feel some deja vu here.

 

[exosculate]

exactly right - he played a very important role in the mass campaign of civil disobedience (especially non-payment of the tax) which ultimately defeated Thatcher's plans. The fact that he may have attacked rioting as counter-productive does nothing to undermine the substantial support and credibility he achieved in Scotland thanks to his role in that struggle.

He said he would assist the police with arrests - or words to that affect. I had friends arrested for no reason on that day and prosecuted. What he said was not insignificant.

Also he such a self serving leader, leader, I am the leader type - he reminds me of that Waco Cultist. Sex scandals and leadership obsession thats what he was like too.

 

[articul8]

He said he would assist the police with arrests - or words to that affect. I had friends arrested for no reason on that day and prosecuted. What he said was not insignificant.

Also he such a self serving leader, leader, I am the leader type - he reminds me of that Waco Cultist. Sex scandals and leadership obsession thats what he was like too.

I very much doubt any individual was arrested due to TS. He was understandably frustrated that the completely legitimate civil disobedience of many thousands of working class people was being tarnished by the actions of a mindless thug minority element (some of whom were - in all likelihood - pseudo-anarchist agent provocateurs), which BTW is certainly not true of the overwhelming majority on the poll tax demo's.

Whatever the political limitations of TS, I can't see why the SSP should have been held to ransome by a bunch of nobodies prepared to back News International's malicious muck-raking.

 

[exosculate]

I very much doubt any individual was arrested due to TS. He was understandably frustrated that the completely legitimate civil disobedience of many thousands of working class people was being tarnished by the actions of a mindless thug minority element (some of whom were - in all likelihood - pseudo-anarchist agent provocateurs), which BTW is certainly not true of the overwhelming majority on the poll tax demo's.

He sanctioned - by his words - the wrongful arrest and prosecution of many people. Working class people who were not anarchist trouble making elements.

What do you not get by that? You lot are like Jehovah Witnesses - every god dam last one of ya.

 

[exosculate]

Whatever the political limitations of TS, I can't see why the SSP should have been held to ransome by a bunch of nobodies prepared to back News International's malicious muck-raking.

On that we agree.

 

[greenman]

completely legitimate civil disobedience..... a mindless thug minority element ...... pseudo-anarchist agent provocateurs........ a bunch of nobodies

What a telling turn of phrase......
Divide and rule, eh?
But, pay no attention to me, I'm just a nobody, like the rest of us on here, unlike the god-like Sheridans, Galloways and Rees of this world

 

[justuname]

Anyone remember this one from the poll tax days?

"On the council estates there are drug peddlers, junkies and people claiming houses under false names. These people will complete the registration forms to avoid attention from the council"

Fuckin chavs eh? Probably go rioting on weekends. Thank god we're going to get a party of actors, celebrities and miners(??) to show us mixed-up nobodies the way.

 

[Bear]

exactly right - he played a very important role in the mass campaign of civil disobedience (especially non-payment of the tax) which ultimately defeated Thatcher's plans. The fact that he may have attacked rioting as counter-productive does nothing to undermine the substantial support and credibility he achieved in Scotland thanks to his role in that struggle.

He was right to say rioting was counter productive, it is. Having a riot and smashing up peoples homes and cars and kicking the shit out of shop windows then looting them helps nobody.

Turning up and refusing to let a bunch of government debt collecting thugs force their way into a single parents home and carry away her stuff however is a good thing to do.

What exactly would have been achieved by having a riot and smashing up the council estate?

 

[Fullyplumped]

He was right to say rioting was counter productive, it is. Having a riot and smashing up peoples homes and cars and kicking the shit out of shop windows then looting them helps nobody. Turning up and refusing to let a bunch of government debt collecting thugs force their way into a single parents home and carry away her stuff however is a good thing to do. What exactly would have been achieved by having a riot and smashing up the council estate?

It would have given some students in their late teens and early twenties somehing to look back upon in their forties and think " I did something really constructive against the Poll Tax back then".

 

[exosculate]

He was right to say rioting was counter productive, it is. Having a riot and smashing up peoples homes and cars and kicking the shit out of shop windows then looting them helps nobody.

Turning up and refusing to let a bunch of government debt collecting thugs force their way into a single parents home and carry away her stuff however is a good thing to do.

What exactly would have been achieved by having a riot and smashing up the council estate?

I was there - and I was not rioting. The police were well out of order in many places and encouraged unrest. Its not a simplistic oh there were some horrible thugs type thing at all. You don't know what you're talking about and you sound like a tabloid newspaper as did Sheridan at the time.

 

[exosculate]

It would have given some students in their late teens and early twenties somehing to look back upon in their forties and think " I did something really constructive against the Poll Tax back then".

What?????

 

[Fullyplumped]

What?????

Sorry - I cannot have been sufficiently clear. I was suggesting that the only ones who might perceive a benefit from mobbing and rioting in residential areas were student wadicals, who have no real stake in the issue but who can be found many years on reminiscing fondly of the great and clever things they did. The best thing I ever did about the Poll Tax in those days was - not pay. (But I don't like to talk about it).

 

[refugee]

I was there - and I was not rioting.

I was there too. With my daughter - 11 at the time and a friends 3 year old son. I did not go to riot. The rioting was a direct result of police attack. They attacked people with their batons for doing nothing more than standing their ground. They arrested people before the rioting began. Sheridan sided with the police (and NOTW!!) version of "troublemakers" and said he'd help identify them. Top grade tosser. Class enemy!

 

[laptop]

I was in Trafalgar Square on the day of the Poll Tax riot.

It was when I saw that the mounted police had blocked both ends of the road in front of the National Gallery - leaving a couple of thousand people with no way out except fighting their way out - that I knew they had decided there would be a riot.

Police who were there have not disagreed with this analysis when I put it to them.

Then...

Photo © David Hoffman

 

[phildwyer]

Why would the police have wanted a riot, it didn't really help the government much did it? And which one in the photo are you? (Serious questions actually, don't get huffy).

 

[laptop]

Genuine questions? I give it three posts. Nevertheless:

I always choose my words carefully: "decided there would be a riot" is not necessarily what you read into it, is it?

I presume that the government would not, initially, have been displeased that there was one; certainly after Sheridan's rash and clumsy intervention they might feel they'd "split the movement". Whether they applied pressure to encourage one - who can tell?

And I'm not in the photo. I was possibly watching David's back at that moment.

 

[phildwyer]

I always choose my words carefully: "decided there would be a riot" is not necessarily what you read into it, is it?

I suppose it could have been a "police riot," where the authorities don't want one but the officers on the ground go nuts. I saw one of those in Tompkins Square NYC around the same time, wasn't pretty.

 

[niclas]

Why would the police have wanted a riot, it didn't really help the government much did it?

The state couldn't brand 14million non-payers as criminals so they had to attack the anti-poll tax movement. Provoking a riot and branding the leaders as extremists etc was the plan. Didn't really work out because the poll tax movement was a diverse and devolved creature.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

SSP Executive Statement on Sheridan's new party plan

Replaced with link ...

http://www.scottishsocialistparty.org/pages/ec_statement.htm

 

[munkeeunit]

I was in Trafalgar Square on the day of the Poll Tax riot.

It was when I saw that the mounted police had blocked both ends of the road in front of the National Gallery - leaving a couple of thousand people with no way out except fighting their way out - that I knew they had decided there would be a riot.

Police who were there have not disagreed with this analysis when I put it to them.

The police had decided they wanted a riot alright. A number of us began negotiating with the police to let the women with children, and elderly out of the area they'd cordoned around the national gallery.

They refused.

By this point they'd already been ramming the crowds of tightly packed people with riot vans. One ambulance I saw began ramming those riot vans to get to the injured.

Once the riot had spilled out into Piccadily circus, it was taken over by hundreds of people, pouring out of restaurants, dropping their shopping in the street and joining in.

At which point it was threatening to no-longer be just a riot, but a groundswell event involving primarily people who hadn't even been on the demo to begin with.

Even now just saying this puts me at risk of arrest. That was the scale of the witch hunt which ensued, but I would now relish the opportuinity to sue the Met, and I'm articulate enough to win hands down.

 

[Bear]

It would have given some students in their late teens and early twenties somehing to look back upon in their forties and think " I did something really constructive against the Poll Tax back then".

Himmmm, let me think. I don't like the pool tax, so I take the civial disobedence a step further and turn it into rioting... Right... So, I pick up a brick and throw it, it ends up going through your front window or something like that... Em, how the fuck is that supposed to help? And why the fuck would I want to look back on doing something like that? Its hardly something to be proud of.

Edited -

Oh I see you were taking the piss... Quite funny actually.


I do believe that the police wanted a riot, its a shame that they got what they wanted.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I do believe that the police wanted a riot, its a shame that they got what they wanted.

Why a shame? They completly lost control and it strengthened the anti-poll tax movement - that what Sheriden and his Militant chums completely misculated at the time.

 

[Bear]

Why a shame? They completly lost control and it strengthened the anti-poll tax movement - that what Sheriden and his Militant chums completely misculated at the time.

I don't think rioting is good, but that's just my opinion.