Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
I read your posts fine Kizmet.
Sexual street harassment in Brixton
- Thread starter S A Villarino
- Start date
Callie
Pivoting
How old are your daughters?
kittyP
Pluviophile
S A Villarino said:
I agree with this.
Over the years I have lived here, I have had a about 4 or 5 more scary things happen in terms of the op (more than just saying "alright darlin" iyswim), but it happened in SE1 too when I lived there.
The only place I didn't experience it was NW11 but I think that's coz I was only there for a few months.
I think we are in danger of making it look like brixton is worse than it is for this, when you're not making reasoned comparisons to other places with similar demographics for all kinds of things.
Just imho though.
You can say you do... you can convince yourself you do but its fairly obvious that you don't.
on one hand you say you skimmed the thread but on the other you say you understood all the different subtleties.... that's inconsistent. You can't have it both ways.
Eldest is just about to turn 12 and the youngest is just 5.
S A Villarino
New Member
I quoted the wrong post and confused myself now
which post were you trying to quote? I guess there are two strands here: 1) low level but frequent harassment that accumulates into a general sense of having your space invaded 2) infrequent but serious examples of sexual harassment bordering-on-assault which has a physical dimension.
In many ways, I'm interested in the former. Brixton is worse for me when it comes to casual street harassment but I've experienced worse and more serious forms of harassment outside of Brixton. Like others on this thread, I have to resign myself to the fact that this is just part of living here no matter how wrong it is objectively, I have to accept and expect it.
So you can concurrently believe that Brixton has a bigger problem with casual street harassment but less worse when it comes to sexual assault. The question is just whether that's true or not.
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
I think people are saying this because that is what your article is about, the particular experience of harassment in Brixton rather than in general.
It's not justifiable or acceptable in any postcode but you might argue that the tone or character of this street harassment changes from place to place, I certainly feel a different sort of gaze on me in the City from that in Brixton or in Islington. Perhaps people who live in Brixton or have done so for a while find the tone less confrontational or intimidating because, as Agent Sparrow says, they have a better idea of what to expect.
As for me, I don't experience much street harassment anymore but it was a predictable, daily occurrence before I had children. It seems to me that you either become invisible or you're not free game anymore because you represent something else to men once you have kids. It's shitty on every side.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
I haven't resigned my self to it as part of living in Brixton at all. It's more about what comes from being female pretty much whereever you are.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Yeah, because you obviously know my experience better than I do.
If you really want to know I read the thread fully last night before I went to bed at around 12:30am, decided that getting involved in an argument would not be conducive to sleep, and skim read what I had missed this morning before posting. As I said, I read enough of your posts fine, thank you. Also tbf it's not entirely dissimilar in tone to other stuff you write.
If you really feel that people keep misinterpreting you then to a degree I feel for you, that must be frustrating. But do you not stop to think about how and why so many people make the same "misinterpretations", and maybe it might be a damn good idea to examine why?
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
What shifty says. You are asking about Brixton so people are, mostly, talking about Brixton. Also agree that there is something about different types of harassment in different areas.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Ooo, if I came across as saying that it wasn't exactly what I meant. Just that in regards to frequency and severity, I personally have found other places worse or equivalent rather than Brixton being a particular hotspot. I think somebody else made the comment about feeling comfortable in an area perhaps making the experiences less difficult to cope with.
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
If one of your daughters came to you asking why would a man shout crude comments to her from a car window or why do the boys in school pinch her bottom or feel her up in the corridor (as frequently happens in secondary school), I hope to god you won't tell her that its because she must seem vulnerable and that vulnerability marks her as a target.
No child or woman should have to toughen up to ward off the unsolicited sexual attentions of men and being streetwise does not provide you with a force field. The problem is not the demeanour of the woman as you seem to suggest but the act, the behaviour of the perpetrator.
S A Villarino
New Member
I know that every other time I leave my house that I'll get a comment in Brixton. It's inevitable. I've lived elsewhere in the UK & London but I've never thought it was inevitable. Yes, types of harassment are worse in other parts of London but what I find specific to Brixton is its consistent low level frequency.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
As an aside, some of the harassment I've had in Camberwell has been quite creative in its efforts! Maybe there's an untapped source of potential poets and artists in Camberwell, who frustrated in not having found their calling, offload those frustrations by harassing women. 
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
Sorry, I meant what you said about the bum pinching in India and it being less shocking etc.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Ah yes. It is interesting what leads to something feeling more threatening than another thing. I definitely had a different way of processing it than I would have done over here.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
I'm a female trades person and work on building sites occasionally where a low level of harassment is pretty much the norm - even if they pretend otherwise. TBH I just have to ignore it or I'd never get any work done. I have found over the years that giving back as good as you get soon shuts them up
along the lines of
"Oi darling, come over here and have a go on my power tool...."
Me " sorry love, I don't bother with ones THAT small...."
So far, thankfully, nothing more than this sort of pathetic stuff
I don't think this sort of thing is restricted to Brixton - it's worldwide!
along the lines of
"Oi darling, come over here and have a go on my power tool...."
Me " sorry love, I don't bother with ones THAT small...."
So far, thankfully, nothing more than this sort of pathetic stuff
I don't think this sort of thing is restricted to Brixton - it's worldwide!
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
I kept a diary of incidents as part of tje study that I took part in. Maybe you could do something similar for your article?
Yeah, because you obviously know my experience better than I do.
There you go again... turning it into "you know my experiences" claptrap.
I don't have to know your experiences to know when you're talking inconsistent bollocks.
That's not what you said before.
I have examined why. There is no coincidence that almost all the people who "misinterpreted me" are the same few posters over and over again. A smallish group of long term posters and some desperate to impress newbies who are also not coincidently some of the same posters involved in the "pm conversation" row.
I have examined it a lot and the conclusions aren't pretty for a lot of these people... if you like I could explain it further but then will be disrupting this thread. Which I'm going to be accused of anyway even though its clear that the disruption is from the same few posters trying to control the discussion.
Its all very predictable and yes, you're right, sometimes frustrating.
S A Villarino
New Member
India broke me and that's where I lost all tolerance for supposedly 'trivial' forms of sexual harassment. 6 weeks of constant staring, comments, pussy cat noises, following, 'bumping into' and occasional groping (all in front of my boyfriend). It's why I'm very conscious of how damaging frequent, but 'annoying', comments can be and why I find it more difficult to shrug this kind of thing off now than I did 5 years ago.
I didn't mention vulnerable at all. I was very specific to mention uncomfortable. Because anyone can be made to feel uncomfortable without them having to be vulnerable.
Again I never suggested the problem was the demeanor of women. Others said I did but you clearly would prefer to believe them rather than check for yourself.
None of my comments were specifically related to women at all... since I believe that this environment is also more difficult for men.
That's why I wanted to talk about the environment itself. Ie Brixton.
Callie
Pivoting
I hate to say this but I think 12 is well within the age of being exposed to this sort of thing assuming she goes out alone/to meet friends etc without an adult. Might be interesting/worth discussing this sort of thing and how she would/should react to it.
I don't mind if you think its creepy. You can think anything that you like.
I only mind when you prevent a discussion from entering difficult subjects just because you get a righteous hard-on everytime I post.
We have started to discuss it. And one of her recurring themes is why it happens to some people and not others...
... this is not easy to understand or explain and I think its a good question. Hence my thoughts relating to environment and cultures.
Callie
Pivoting
heh sorry youre hooked on this environment and culture thing, im not really thinking about the whys and the wherefores. No adult ever really spoke to me about this casual, mildly (?) sexual interaction with older, strange males and what it means and why it happens. its good that you can/do talk to your girls about it.
what does she mean that it happens to some people not others? boys vs girls??
what does she mean that it happens to some people not others? boys vs girls??
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
You're quite right, my mistake. Perhaps you might replace the word vulnerable with uncomfortable and answer my question?
Firstly, I did read your post and this is my interpretation of it. Do not presume that I am incapable of forming my own opinion as I always give a personal response, not tainted by the politics of the board which you seem to feel is conspiring against you.
Your post, in response to a question about the sexual harassment of women, did suggest that it was the demeanour of women uncomfortable in 'thriving street culture' which somehow marked them as a target. That wasmy interpretation of your comments and though you've had ample time to clarify what you meant but you choose not to, instead being supercilliously dismissve of the people who have responded to you and their 'claptrap'.
Perhaps you have something interesting to say about Brixton, so say it. But this was a thread about sexual harassment of women and, as you freely admit, you've made no positive contribution to the discussion. If you want to discuss the masculinity and the 'thriving street culture' of Brixton then go start a thread about it and stop ruining this one.
