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Sexual street harassment in Brixton

Not entirely. I think the level of self-consciousness or vulnerability you are feeling "can be "read" in your clothes, gait and manner" as Trabuquera says. I reckon a man who's looking for entertainment will throw a line out to a woman he thinks he'll get a reaction out of and sadly, some men aggressively pick on a woman who's looking vulnerable.<snip>

I don't look vulnerable or self-conscious but still get it - next!
 
i didn't want someone talking to me on the way home uninvited. Having been shouted at by one guy who I wouldn't give my phone number to and had someone not let me get pass them when I wouldn't give my number to them, I didn't feel that I could ignore this guy with out fear of being intimidated or threatened by him. I was a naive teen back then with very strict parents.
Yeah, I've also been approached by adult men for more genuine compliments or more respectful chattings up from the age of 15 to now. These days I take genuine compliments with a smile in the nature they're intended. However, I was always a mix of flattered and creeped out in my teens. Looking back on it, what the fuck were 30 something men doing chatting up a 15/16/17 year old girl, particularly one who probably looked younger than her years? That's creepy power dynamic shit going on right there.
 
I personally don't think a tooted horn and a 'oi sexy' is about power; I think the doofus reckons he's giving you a compliment. Obviously a 'show us yer tits' or following up a comment with a threat or sexist insult is totally not on.

Otoh, after reading everydaysexism I realise it may take on different quality if it happens a lot. I've never experienced much harassment ( I have this theory that being short haired all my adult life has something to do with it, which will doubtless be refuted by someone short haired in a minute! ;) )
 
I thought recently that I might be reaching the "invisible" stage of middle-age. But I think it was just a pre-summer lull! Now the layers are off it's just the same as it's been since I was a teenager.
 
I personally don't think a tooted horn and a 'oi sexy' is about power; I think the doofus reckons he's giving you a compliment. Obviously a 'show us yer tits' or following up a comment with a threat or sexist insult is totally not on.
I dunno, there's still power there, like the person feels they have sufficient power to enforce their public "compliment". I bolded the horn thing as when it happens in a car, there's already an extra added power element there, solely from being in a car.

Cars generally have a lot more power over cyclists and peds, and that doesn't just come from being in several tons of metal. Cars can slow down and shout abuse and then speed off again in a way those other road users can't. They've got this loud horn which they can misuse as obnoxiously as they like, they can creep behind or beside you, they can even very physically threaten you off the road or threaten to drag you in. Obviously the majority of car drivers don't do this because they're not wankers, but the medium gives you that potential power. So I think a horn toot is actually quite an aggressive way of showing their "compliment", and I do find it difficult to believe that the tooters don't recognise that.

The other thing that comes to mind is an experience when I was 18 and walking home from a pub shift, and a group of men in their car decided to shout "oi sexy" or something at me. In those days I was more up for making a stand, so I flipped the bird as they went past. The car then stopped and started reversing directly at me with the doors opening. I almost shat myself :( Thankfully they were just doing it to fuck with me, and drove off laughing their heads off. But whilst it probably would have been pretty awful had they just been four pedestrians, definitely the addition of the car added to the power.

Rather sadly, it was due to that and a similar incident later that year why I stopped asserting myself in response to these sorts of experiences :(
 
In my estimation, not having done it myself but having worked with blokes who do, it can have a "sexual" motive but that only begs the question about sexual attitudes for some and how they get mixed up with power (maybe that's what everyone else is saying anyway, if so ignore me!). Also knew one chancer who would try it on but not just in any situation - reckon he was picking up on a dynamic rather than scattershot any woman at all (we used to go round concreting drives and this workmate got off with householders in the area we were working fairly regularly). Suspect there's another dynamic again with groups of lads, showing off to your mates being more important, but again telling why you would choose that way to do it.
 
I think its being mentioned on this type of thread before but I think younger women get approached/comments a lot more than say women 20 (?)+, for me this is worrying. Thats not to say it doesnt happen to women over 20 but I think its more prevalent.

Youre asking on the whole an adult audience here OP but If you can it might be interesting to ask a teen audience how they find it too?

I also do not think this is unique to Brixton in any way, shape or form.
 
I dunno, there's still power there, like the person feels they have sufficient power to enforce their public "compliment". I bolded the horn thing as when it happens in a car, there's already an extra added power element there, solely from being in a car.

Cars generally have a lot more power over cyclists and peds, and that doesn't just come from being in several tons of metal. Cars can slow down and shout abuse and then speed off again in a way those other road users can't. They've got this loud horn which they can misuse as obnoxiously as they like, they can creep behind or beside you, they can even very physically threaten you off the road or threaten to drag you in. Obviously the majority of car drivers don't do this because they're not wankers, but the medium gives you that potential power. So I think a horn toot is actually quite an aggressive way of showing their "compliment", and I do find it difficult to believe that the tooters don't recognise that.

The other thing that comes to mind is an experience when I was 18 and walking home from a pub shift, and a group of men in their car decided to shout "oi sexy" or something at me. In those days I was more up for making a stand, so I flipped the bird as they went past. The car then stopped and started reversing directly at me with the doors opening. I almost shat myself :( Thankfully they were just doing it to fuck with me, and drove off laughing their heads off. But whilst it probably would have been pretty awful had they just been four pedestrians, definitely the addition of the car added to the power.

Rather sadly, it was due to that and a similar incident later that year why I stopped asserting myself in response to these sorts of experiences :(



Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm really sorry to hear that. In many ways it's difficult to know how to respond: flip out and they get the satisfaction of a reaction, ignore them and they can turn nasty.

The car dynamic is so cowardly and does add an element of threat.
 
I always found the general level of street harassment to be less in Brixton, and London generally, than it was when I was living in Southampton (I moved back a couple of decades ago). I also found Southampton friendlier though, as in people would chat to you on buses etc a lot more. So this made me wonder if it was partly about a different expectation of how much interaction you would have with strangers.

I don't get much of it now, which is probably partly age. The odd comment/compliment.
 
I think its being mentioned on this type of thread before but I think younger women get approached/comments a lot more than say women 20 (?)+, for me this is worrying. Thats not to say it doesnt happen to women over 20 but I think its more prevalent.

Youre asking on the whole an adult audience here OP but If you can it might be interesting to ask a teen audience how they find it too?

I also do not think this is unique to Brixton in any way, shape or form.


Would definitely be interesting to get the perspective of teens. Anyone have a connection with a local school?

Yes, frequency and intensity of street harassment does seem to vary a lot and can't be pinpointed to a location, especially as we don't have any stats as most of this just doesn't get officially reported.

As I hang around Brixton the most on my own, this is where I get harassed most. The problem is that it's everywhere and the fact that so many people on this thread have had to modify their behaviour to mitigate this crap just isn't fair.
 
That wasn't Brixton btw S A Villarino, that was where I grew up (Hollingdean district of Brighton). Tbh I think I would agree with some of the comments about finding Brixton to not actually be quite as bad as some other places in London, the UK, or indeed the world. Thanks for your concern though :)
 
As I hang around Brixton the most on my own, this is where I get harassed most. The problem is that it's everywhere and the fact that so many people on this thread have had to modify their behaviour to mitigate this crap just isn't fair.
Well, this is probably why you're noticing it more here. :( Generally IME these men don't generally do it to groups of women, preferring to target those on their own. Which supports it being largely a power thing.
 
mmm, I must be very ugly or something, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I was approached in the street, or shouted at. Very few indeed. On one of them I was about to be attacked from behind (or at least that's what it felt like was about to happen) but I turned around and shouted so loudly the man did a 180 degree turn and walked the other way.

Then there was this one time in Brazil when a fucking paedo stopped me to ask for directions and the touched me down there then he just fucked off. I was 11. Maybe I developed some kind of invisibility cloak after that...
 
Teenage girls get it really bad by the way, my teenage son tells me it happens to his friends almost daily. I do think they prey on the very young and naive.
 
Slightly off topic. But this irritates me.

I have a female friend who I see very little now as her boyfriend does not approve.

Recently happened again. Someone I used to deliver to I met in street. Had not seen her for a year. We always got on so swapped numbers to stay in touch. Later in day get text saying boyfriend did not approve. Texted back to say I understood.

Why can women not have male friends?

derail warning


I had this recently with a female best friend I've had for 24 years!!! I used to live at her parents when I got kicked out of home at 16/17

She has shook off/rotated through all her friends and aquaintances over the last 24 years, I have been the only constant in her life really, through all her boyfriends, good times and bad. I had keys to her house the lot.

Enter stage left, short, neurotic fuck bag of a boyfriend, she seems to spend most her time holding/propping him up, practically with his work and psychologically. He always seemed a bit spiky but when she let me stay at her house as I was on a course in london he lost it and started issuing ultimatums

defriended off face book because communicating with her sends him off, not seen her for three months, no comms

I can appreciate he is a cunt bag, I can't believe she hasn't managed his shit in regard to me better, very disappointing

CARRY ON
 
Well, this is probably why you're noticing it more here. :( Generally IME these men don't generally do it to groups of women, preferring to target those on their own. Which supports it being largely a power thing.

Very oddly, I was approached by a man when I was with my partner recently. He was undressing me with his eyes and saying things like you are so sexy in a quiet voice as he passed. My boyfriend didn't spot what was going on at first. I stopped turned around and said something along tje lines of mate I'm with my boyfriend! I felt frustrated by the situation and with myself because I felt like I had effectively said hands off I'm someone else's property. :(
 
Very oddly, I was approached by a man when I was with my partner recently. He was undressing me with his eyes and saying things like you are so sexy in a quiet voice as he passed. My boyfriend didn't spot what was going on at first. I stopped turned around and said something along tje lines of mate I'm with my boyfriend! I felt frustrated by the situation and with myself because I felt like I had effectively said hands off I'm someone else's property. :(
:(

Some guy managed to squeeze my boob when I was walking down the street with Crispy and dirtyfruit a few years ago. In a strange way it probably felt worse because my partner was right there. During that incident I didn't say anything, partly because I didn't want to cause any trouble, but partly because tbh it did make me feel quite shamed, and it took a few days for me to even be able to tell Crispy.
 
I don't think these events are anything to do with actual "attractiveness" tbh. They may happen a bit more if someone's glammed up, but they certainly also happen to people dressed very casually. I agree with girasol and Callie that I think younger girls get this a lot, lot worse, which also ties into my experience over the years.
 
:(

Some guy managed to squeeze my boob when I was walking down the street with Crispy and dirtyfruit a few years ago. In a strange way it probably felt worse because my partner was right there. During that incident I didn't say anything, partly because I didn't want to cause any trouble, but partly because tbh it did make me feel quite shamed, and it took a few days for me to even be able to tell Crispy.

Stuff like that makes me so cross and sad. Esp that we are the ones that feel the shame... Some ppl are such pricks :(
 
That wasn't Brixton btw S A Villarino, that was where I grew up (Hollingdean district of Brighton). Tbh I think I would agree with some of the comments about finding Brixton to not actually be quite as bad as some other places in London, the UK, or indeed the world. Thanks for your concern though :)


The perception of street harassment and place is subjective, so while I experience it as worse in Brixton compared to Pimlico, another will say Seven Sisters is worse than Brixton etc. What binds us altogether is the fact that it happens to so many of us everywhere. In spite of the fact that some people will say 'it's not as bad in Brixton', people still feel need to stop wearing red lipstick, skirts, change where they walk, feel scared of people knowing where they live etc. etc. No cat caller has ever had to do something like that. Brixton may not be the "worst" place in terms of extreme threatening behaviour but it's the frequent 'hey sexy', 'oi, oi, oi' comments that build up, filling simple journeys with dread. I know not every Brixtonite experiences that but if you do, it's not a comfort to say it's not as bad as X...That just proves that sexual harassment is a problem everywhere and there are very few official means of dealing with the problem.
 
Re feelings of dread.. It's more of a range of feelings from oh right here we go again, almost resigned to it, to feeling pretty cross. On the odd occasion I feel shame and embarrassment, although those types of responses featured much more often for me in the past. Partly to do with my dick head ex who said that there was obviously something about me that made these incidents happen. His reasoning was that he knew lots of women and none of them told him about things like this happening. Er that's because they going out with you, prick.
 
I do feel pretty resigned to it tbh. The other weekend I was walking to the tube on my way to work at 7am and a chap in a car slowed right down, practically stopped, and offered me a lift. I refused, obviously, and carried on walking, fast. There was nobody around which made me feel uncomfortable but he moved off and all was well. I didn't think that much of it but stupidly mentioned it to my boyfriend later in the day, who got really angry and started talking about calling the police. I felt this was an over-reaction, but I also felt annoyed in retrospect that a stranger would feel that this was an appropriate, unthreatening thing to do to a woman on her own.
 
Re feelings of dread.. It's more of a range of feelings from oh right here we go again, almost resigned to it, to feeling pretty cross. On the odd occasion I feel shame and embarrassment, although those types of responses featured much more often for me in the past. Partly to do with my dick head ex who said that there was obviously something about me that made these incidents happen. His reasoning was that he knew lots of women and none of them told him about things like this happening. Er that's because they going out with you, prick.


I think "feeling resigned to it" is the most dangerous reaction you can have. I was horrified when I tried to justify this happening by saying, "Well, I guess it's just part of being a woman. What else can you expect..."

God, your ex sounds like a monster. It's pretty difficult talking about this to people, some of whom just say 'take it as a compliment...' (and accuse you of secretly bragging) or 'don't pay any attention to it, they're just silly boys...'

So half the struggle is keeping sane and recognising that it is a problem in the first place...
 
Being resigned is a coping strategy though. It's not necessarily the most helpful one (both for individuals or women in general), but it makes an experience just a nuisance rather than something more emotionally unpleasant, or even something that escalates into something dangerous.

For example, I've never experienced sexual harassment like I experienced on a three week holiday to India - usually bum pinching in busy streets with unknown perpetrators quickly walking off. My female friend and I, in an attempt I guess to detoxify the experience, ended up having an almost jokey "competition" to see who it happened to the most. Now I'd like to be clear that we didn't want our bums to be pinched at all, but it happened, in a situation where we had no right of reply, and well, there has to be some way of coping with it else you just go a bit potty.

Of course another more helpful coping strategy is, in other environments, to be verbal about these experiences and their impact, in the hope that some people might start to see things a bit differently.
 
For me, I think it depends on the type of harassment that occurs. If it a hello sexy then im more likely to metaphoricaly shrug and carry on. If the comments are explicit that's why I am more likely to challenge the person.

You're right AS it is very much a coping strategy. But being resigned to it happening to me doesn't mean that im resigned to it women in general ifyswim. And I'm very much for talking about it, challenging it and supporting others who experience this behaviour.
 
After a skim read of the thread...

.....

And Kizmet, you're coming across as apologist and not a little creepy. Stop it.

I haven't talked about sexual harassment at all... not to apologize for it or to deny it.

What I talked about was Brixton and some of the environmental factors I have noticed there in common with other areas that I have seen with high instances of harassment, street violence and crime.

Now I have 2 beautiful daughters who are still young enough to not be often confronted by overt sexual harassment... but I fear they will and it is important for me to understand as much as I can about situations and environments so I can try and help them as much as possible.

So I'd like to have discussions with thoughtful, experienced and open-minded people about all sorts of related issues.

Now if that comes across to some self-obsessed idiots as being creepy or an apologist then I guess that's just how it has to be.

I will not cover my posts in apologies and caveats to try and avoid getting into arguments with arseholes looking for an excuse to be righteous. I shouldn't have to. No one should have to.

As increasingly common on urban this is about a smallish group of regular posters trying to control what is discussed and how... that is not what urban is for. It isn't meant to be a popularity contest.

And here you go jumping down my throat for something I didn't say just because your long term poster mates say I said it.

That's what you get for skim reading a thread.
 
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