Sensible information and advice about Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Supine]

I don't bother. The CDC risk assessed this kind of thing as low (and I'm a bit lazy).

 

[two sheds]

If you want to minimise risk (zero risk can not be achieved): Extract fruit, veg from wrapping cellophane (if necessary, almost always with supermarket deliveries) and wash then store (I would wash such before consumption normally anyway; washing prior to storage isn't a major change). Wipe down water impervious items or set them aside, with the items likely to be damaged by water, for at least 3 days. Wash hands before, during and after. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

Ta for this - convenient post to hang my question(s) on.

1) When you say wash - presumably this is washing with (liquid) soap/washing up liquid. I'm a bit iffy about washing vegetables with soap but a good rinse afterwards should make it fine.

2) Washing down bottles, cans, etc: I presume best is going to be use something like a surface wipe. The anti-bacterial ones I have say "<5% non-ionic surfactant. Also contains disinfectant per 100g of liquid benzalkonium-chloride", which on this page says:

Benzalkonium chloride is a typical dual-function disinfectant, which can kill bacteria / fungus and kill / inhibit viruses. It has a strong killing effect on a variety of pathogenic bacteria / fungus and viruses, so it is widely used in various scene disinfection.

I'm wondering whether that will be enough (although the wipes don't say how much of the ingredients there are), or whether I should add a wee squirt of liquid soap or washing up liquid.

So nice straightforward question for anyone who can advise

 

[Doodler]

Ta for this - convenient post to hang my question(s) on.

1) When you say wash - presumably this is washing with (liquid) soap/washing up liquid. I'm a bit iffy about washing vegetables with soap but a good rinse afterwards should make it fine.

2) Washing down bottles, cans, etc: I presume best is going to be use something like a surface wipe. The anti-bacterial ones I have say "<5% non-ionic surfactant. Also contains disinfectant per 100g of liquid benzalkonium-chloride", which on this page says:



I'm wondering whether that will be enough (although the wipes don't say how much of the ingredients there are), or whether I should add a wee squirt of liquid soap or washing up liquid.

So nice straightforward question for anyone who can advise

Re. washing veg, some kinds seem to go off/rot a lot quicker if they're washed and left to drip dry, carrots in particular.

Presuming that soap full stop is what does for the Covid virus's shell, I fill the sink with cold water plus washing up liquid and decant from the shopping bag straight into it. Common sense suggests some goods tend to get handled and rummaged about more than others in shops, such as bread,:for which people check the sell-by date.

 

[blameless77]

Maybe you should start.

That way madness lies!

 

[two sheds]

Re. washing veg, some kinds seem to go off/rot a lot quicker if they're washed and left to drip dry, carrots in particular.

Presuming that soap full stop is what does for the Covid virus's shell, I fill the sink with cold water plus washing up liquid and decant from the shopping bag straight into it. Common sense suggests some goods tend to get handled and rummaged about more than others in shops, such as bread,:for which people check the sell-by date.

Re: carrots ..... aha!! I wondered why they weren't keeping as well

I've actually got an aluminium bin outside the door which I put deliveries in and give them a bit of a spray with alcohol and leave for a couple of days when I can.

Then in sink with detergent does sound favourite, although i know I'm going to end up with all the labels coming off so I'll be ending up with surprise on toast a few times.

 

[lazythursday]

My wash-the-shopping system has evolved since the start of lockdown. I take all shopping into a spare room where I sort it out. Things which can be decanted from outside containers / packaging I do first - get put away and packaging disposed of. Then remaining things that have to go in fridge or freezer I wash in soapy water. The rest - things like tins and packets - I leave in the spare room to decontaminate for a few days. I have no idea if this is scientifically sensible but it makes me feel safer and means I only actually wash a limited amount of stuff - washing everything was such a chore. For general deliveries I have a similar system - unpack straight away, put cardboard into decontamination zone, wash hands. It's been really noticeable the last week though that delivery people are no longer keeping back from the door, so many people acting like it's all over.

 

[editor]

The FT has produced another article that's worth a look

Japanese research that traced the contacts of 110 people with Covid-19 found the infection was passed on by only 12.5 per cent of those whose only interactions with others were outdoors. But of those whose only encounters were indoors, almost 75 per cent infected others.

How to avoid the virus as the world reopens | Free to read

A guide to where the biggest risks lie as lockdowns ease

www.ft.com

 

[editor]

Why days go slowly and weeks hurtle by

Quarantime: Why the Days Drag and the Weeks Fly By

Research on time and memory explains why the lockdown distorts our perceptions.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[frogwoman]

Just wondering how the R number is calculated? How do they know it's gone up or down, do they calculate it from the number of confirmed infections?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Just wondering how the R number is calculated? How do they know it's gone up or down, do they calculate it from the number of confirmed infections?

Complex maths and statistical modelling. It's not like just counting up people with coughs each week.

 

[Roadkill]

If you want to minimise risk (zero risk can not be achieved): Extract fruit, veg from wrapping cellophane (if necessary, almost always with supermarket deliveries) and wash then store (I would wash such before consumption normally anyway; washing prior to storage isn't a major change). Wipe down water impervious items or set them aside, with the items likely to be damaged by water, for at least 3 days. Wash hands before, during and after. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

I'm glad it's not only me who's doing this! Well, I'm not doing much more with fruit and veg than a quick wash down, but shopping gets unpacked in the bath and all waterproof packages get sprayed with disinfectant, left for a few minutes and then rinsed before they go in the cupboards. I put the mop bucket with bleach solution by the front door when I go shopping, and the first thing I do when I get back is wet the floor with it and walk through it to disinfect my shoes, and then mop down anywhere I've put down bags. I've stopped throwing away the bags themselves, but have a rotation system so they don't get used for a few days. I also sanitise the front door handle, keys, my bank card and anything else I've carried with me, and usually then have a shower and change my clothes.

 

[2hats]

I'm glad it's not only me who's doing this!

I didn't say I was doing it. I just said that's what I would do if I wanted to minimise risk. Since I have an apparent immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and good reason to think I have been exposed, plus do not fall into a vulnerable category and now find myself in an environment with Re<1 I'm not quite so thorough as that, nor need to be. Though (as previously stated) I've always washed fruit and veg, and non-consumables have typically always sat around for days in storage anyway prior to use.

 

[Roadkill]

I didn't say I was doing it.

Sorry - misread you, and probably outed myself as excessively cautious in the process!

 

[hash tag]

Tracking and tracing. Cost to date £12 million and why it won't work and why C19 is potentially more serious than you could imagine, it can screw up most of your organs!

5 Live Science - Journey to the centre of the Earth - BBC Sounds

Science news, plus a special journey to the centre of the Earth.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[zahir]

How to do the self test

 

[Teaboy]

How to do the self test

Watching this video has just further underlined the need for a far simpler and user friendly test. For various medical reasons I would be unable to do the nasal swab. Its little wonder to me why so many repeat tests (particularly self-tests) have to be carried out.

I hope they can get this saliva test to work and quickly.

 

[2hats]

A dry blood spot test is also being worked on.

 

[zahir]

Watching this video has just further underlined the need for a far simpler and user friendly test. For various medical reasons I would be unable to do the nasal swab. Its little wonder to me why so many repeat tests (particularly self-tests) have to be carried out.

I hope they can get this saliva test to work and quickly.

I’ve just got back from doing the test at a walk-through centre. The test was self-administered but with someone telling me what to do. I found the nasal swab straightforward. I wasn’t sure if I was doing the throat swab in the right place. I wouldn’t really have wanted to do the test at home by following the video. The test centre seemed to be run well enough and there are a lot more centres open now. If you apply for a test online you‘re given a choice of test centres closest to your postcode. I haven’t been able to find an up to date list of test centres elsewhere.

 

[zahir]

NHS England » NHS to launch ground breaking online COVID-19 rehab service

Tens of thousands of people who are suffering long-term effects of coronavirus will benefit from a revolutionary on-demand recovery service, the head of the NHS has announced today. Nurses and physiotherapists will be on hand to reply to patients’ needs either online or over the phone as part of...

www.england.nhs.uk

Not up and running yet but from the site...

evidence shows that many of those survivors are likely to have significant on-going health problems, including breathing difficulties, enduring tiredness, reduced muscle function, impaired ability to perform vital everyday tasks and mental health problems such as PTSD, anxiety and depression.

The online portal will help ensure that people get the support they need to recover from the effects of the virus, including those associated with spending a long time on ventilation, while reducing the need to physically attend appointments for many.

The first phase of the service will launch later this month, providing the latest advice on recovering from the virus, which will be available to all and continually improved and added to.

The second phase, in which people who need it will be able to access personalised support packages, is in development by experts based in Leicester and will be made available later in the summer.

In order to access this part of the site, patients will first attend a face-to-face assessment, which may include a walking test, to help personalise care and ensure people get the type of support and rehabilitation specific to their need, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach.

For those who need ongoing care, they will be given a log-in to the new online site, which will be accessible from any web-enabled phone, tablet, television or computer.

Where patients don’t already have access to a suitable device to use the online platform, printed materials will be made depending upon demand to ensure the service is accessible to all.

Rehabilitation professionals will be able to access their patient’s data to enable remote care and monitoring, ensuring that anyone who might need further face-to-face checks or treatment can get it

 

[gosub]

Mix amalase (sugar enzyme) with degreaser for a more effective anti Covid cleaning solution (+possibly 60% alcohol)

 

[zahir]

NICE guidance on managing COVID-19

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng165/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-managing-suspected-or-confirmed-pneumonia-in-adults-in-the-community-pdf-66141902429125

 

[platinumsage]

Mix amalase (sugar enzyme) with degreaser for a more effective anti Covid cleaning solution (+possibly 60% alcohol)

This is the sensible information thread. Amylase is inactivated by ethanol. Do you have any evidence for "amylase with a degreaser" being more effective for anyone than soapy water or alcohol gel? I mean there are lots of solutions that can kill coronavirus, such as bleach and concentrated acids, but they serve little purpose because you want to use the solutions that are least destructive to other things such as skin and plastics.

 

[two sheds]

NICE guidance on managing COVID-19

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng165/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-managing-suspected-or-confirmed-pneumonia-in-adults-in-the-community-pdf-66141902429125

That's really useful, thanks

phone/video consultations (possibly risky?), electronic prescriptions, postal delivery of medicines all sensible for the future

This interesting, too:

Where physical examination and other ways of making an objective diagnosis are not possible, the clinical diagnosis of community-acquired pneumonia of any cause in an adult can be informed by other clinical signs or symptoms such as:

• temperature above 38°C
• respiratory rate above 20 breaths per minute
• heart rate above 100beats per minute
• new confusion (see the CEBM's rapid diagnosis of community-acquired pneumonia for clinicians). [Rapid diagnosis of community-acquired pneumonia for clinicians - CEBM]

plus interesting sections/symptoms for assessing severity (3.4), deciding hospital admission (4.1), managing breathlessness (4.4): [Overview | COVID-19 rapid guideline: managing symptoms (including at the end of life) in the community | Guidance | NICE], antibiotic and corticosteroids treatments (4.5-4.12, antibiotics no good for viral diseases)

 

[gosub]

This is the sensible information thread. Amylase is inactivated by ethanol. Do you have any evidence for "amylase with a degreaser" being more effective for anyone than soapy water or alcohol gel? I mean there are lots of solutions that can kill coronavirus, such as bleach and concentrated acids, but they serve little purpose because you want to use the solutions that are least destructive to other things such as skin and plastics.

Then no alcohol (or just >60%), Covid 19 is DNA,, wrapped in lipid (degreaser) with outer layer of sugar (amylase)

 

[platinumsage]

Then no alcohol (or just >60%), Covid 19 is DNA,, wrapped in lipid (degreaser) with outer layer of sugar (amylase)

No it's soapy water or alcohol-based hand rub. Amylase and degreaser is not more effective, sorry but this is useless nonsense.

 

[two sheds]

and 70% alcohol 30% water as I recall, or actually 60-80% alcohol and over 80% doesn't work properly either.

 

[gosub]

No it's soapy water or alcohol-based hand rub. Amylase and degreaser is not more effective, sorry but this is useless nonsense.

On a personal basis soap and water or alcohol v.good. Other people have other things to think about.

 

[platinumsage]

On a personal basis soap and water or alcohol v.good. Other people have other things to think about.

You’re not making any sense, and certainly not imparting any sensible information.

 

[gosub]

You’re not making any sense, and certainly not imparting any sensible information.

Says someone who doesn't think soapy water is a degreaser

 

[platinumsage]

Says someone who doesn't think soapy water is a degreaser

I know soap is a degreaser, it's the most sensible one to recommend people use for combating this virus. There are lots of other degreasers which aren’t suitable. Your advice of amylase + degreaser + alcohol is not sensible or even coherent, which is why I challenged it.