RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

[baldrick]

i very much want to know if any women hereabouts think that Mr paulee did a gallant good thing and they'd have been happy / grateful when told that he'd followed them for 90 minutes.

No. I think it's fucking creepy myself.

 

[Mr paulee]

i very much want to know if any women hereabouts think that Mr paulee did a gallant good thing and they'd have been happy / grateful when told that he'd followed them for 90 minutes.

Please - it's not about being gallant.
It's about doing what we thought was the right thing to do
I wish we lived in a society where it was not necessary, as we both know we don't live in such unfortunately.

 

[bimble]

Please - it's not about being gallant.
It's about doing what we thought was the right thing to do
I wish we lived in a society where it was not necessary, as we both know we don't live in such unfortunately.

Why do you think she was angry instead of grateful?

 

[baldrick]

Human remains found in woods

Oh no. There's knowing the inevitable outcome and the hope that maybe this time it won't happen. I really really hoped.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Both times I have been sexually assaulted it was in broad daylight. No later than 3pm. Not sure how staying home of an evening would have saved me from that. Cheers for the advice tho...

 

[trashpony]

Oh no. There's knowing the inevitable outcome and the hope that maybe this time it won't happen. I really really hoped.

I really hoped it wouldn’t be so. This is all far too close to home

 

[existentialist]

Please - it's not about being gallant.
It's about doing what we thought was the right thing to do
I wish we lived in a society where it was not necessary, as we both know we don't live in such unfortunately.

"what we thought" - so immediately, the woman in question's preference is discounted. What about what she wanted to do?

 

[Mr paulee]

The reason she was so furious, I suspect, was that you had done exactly the thing that tends to scare women: she had made an explicit request to go home alone, and you decided you knew better. That's what happens when some stranger says "give us a kiss, darlin'" and won't take no for an answer. It's disempowering, no matter how noble your motives might have been.

Due to alcohol consumption, it was clear that her cognitive abilities were impaired.

'give us a kiss' - sorry it's completely different.

 

[Elpenor]

The poor woman's family, I can't imagine what they must be going through

The area they are searching in Kent, Great Chart, is a few miles from where my Dad lives. Brings it home.

 

[existentialist]

Due to alcohol consumption, it was clear that her cognitive abilities were impaired.

'give us a kiss' - sorry it's completely different.

To you, perhaps. To her, it would have felt like the same thing - "he did just what he wanted to do, regardless of my wishes".

ETA: anyway, in view of the latest developments, this conversation is probably best had elsewhere.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

i very much want to know if any women hereabouts think that Mr paulee did a gallant good thing and they'd have been happy / grateful when told that he'd followed them for 90 minutes.

I share your feelings bimble

It infantalises her/white knights a saviour

Basically men on this thread challenge yourselves first before you set out to save women

how many of you can honestly say you've never done something that adds to the 'low level hum' (mentioned by SheilaNaGig ) of fear and threat that helps to keep women in their place ?

 

[Mr paulee]

No. I think it's fucking creepy myself.

What would you have done Baldrick?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

i very much want to know if any women hereabouts think that Mr paulee did a gallant good thing and they'd have been happy / grateful when told that he'd followed them for 90 minutes.

Not me.

Seems really peculiar to me.

I think I’d be proper weirded out by the idea that my mate’s bloke had followed me home for an hour and a half as some kind of invisible uninvited and actively declined deed or quest.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Tiktok posts are broadcasting pics of person with plenty of allegations .

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Due to alcohol consumption, it was clear that her cognitive abilities were impaired.

'give us a kiss' - sorry it's completely different.

I can see both sides. You were worried about her and wanted to make sure she was ok.

She was angry that you disregarded her wishes.

I'm trying to think what I'd do if a slightly pissed friend insisted on walking home alone. I might do the same as you.

 

[Mr paulee]

I share your feelings bimble

It infantalises her/white knights a saviour

Basically men on this thread challenge yourselves first before you set out to save women

how many of you can honestly say you've never done something that adds to the 'low level hum' (mentioned by SheilaNaGig ) of fear and threat that helps to keep women in their place ?

Can I just add that this was nothing to do with white knight behaviour or the such - at the insistence of my wife (as stated ) and my neighbours.
Not to mention genuine concern.

 

[Poot]

I'd like to share something that happened two summers ago.

We had people round due to some of our mutual friends being back in London. Drinks and food - started late Saturday afternoon went on till early Sunday am.
When it cake to leaving time, one of my wife's uni friends who came on her own, wouldn't take the offer of a shared Uber etc to take her back to her Air B'nB, which was in Battersea. She was adamant that she could 'find her own way' etc.
Despite my wife (her friend of over 24 years) repeatedly asking her to either stay with us or get a cab, she left to go home.
I followed her, not only due to my wife insistence but my own fear of her getting lost/falling over or worse. I just wanted her to be safe and in her inebriated state, I couldn't be sure.
Over 90 mins later she had walked the whole distance to her accommodation unknowing that I was following her.

Few days later she called to say thank you for the party etc and wonderful to see everyone. My wife then explained what I had done .The friend was incandescent with rage, how we had not listened to her and disrespected her etc. My wife was both shocked and very upset.

She has not been in contact with us since.

That evening, we did the right thing and made the right choice in my opinion.

I tell you this story, not out of any kind of virtue signalling or woe betide us men having to make tough decisions etc, but to highlight that the majority f men know what to do and how to behave.

She is a woman, not a child. If she wants to go home on her own she should be able to without being followed by any man, including you. I'd be pissed off if someone thought I needed a chaperone, too. It's patronising. Women really just need to be left tf alone.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Please - it's not about being gallant.
It's about doing what we thought was the right thing to do
I wish we lived in a society where it was not necessary, as we both know we don't live in such unfortunately.

But are you going to follow me home the next time I need walk across the common after I’ve had a few bevvies? What about all the other women who are in need of your protection?

It feels to me patriarchal proprietorial.
“Our guest, wife’s friend, my responsibility”

 

[izz]

i very much want to know if any women hereabouts think that Mr paulee did a gallant good thing and they'd have been happy / grateful when told that he'd followed them for 90 minutes.

I can understand Mr paulee's motives and I believe they were for the best - but, and it is a horrible thing to say, but if it happened to me, and I realised someone was following me, regardless of what kind of relationship I had with that man, regardless of what state I was in, there would be part of me that believed he was being predatory. And why ? Because that's what happens. That's what happens when you're a woman.

If I started listing all the times I'd been followed, harassed, flashed at and assaulted in the street, by strangers, well, I'd describe about 20 incidents. I've been assaulted in clubs, I've had over friendly men I've worked with or known try to come on a bit strong, and this is not unusual, this has been my reality and I'm prepared to bet of many others. 40% sounds a bit low to me.

 

[Glitter]

i very much want to know if any women hereabouts think that Mr paulee did a gallant good thing and they'd have been happy / grateful when told that he'd followed them for 90 minutes.

The moral of that story is that Mr paulee, like many other men, don’t respect boundaries.

 

[Athos]

I don’t know. Which is why I said I don’t know.

Makes sense.

 

[Mumbles274]

I can understand Mr paulee's motives and I believe they were for the best - but, and it is a horrible thing to say, but if it happened to me, and I realised someone was following me, regardless of what kind of relationship I had with that man, regardless of what state I was in, there would be part of me that believed he was being predatory. And why ? Because that's what happens. That's what happens when you're a woman.

If I started listing all the times I'd been followed, harassed, flashed at and assaulted in the street, by strangers, well, I'd describe about 20 incidents. I've been assaulted in clubs, I've had over friendly men I've worked with or known try to come on a bit strong, and this is not unusual, this has been my reality and I'm prepared to bet of many others. 40% sounds a bit low to me.

I think 40% is low too. It was a small sample survey

 

[baldrick]

What would you have done Baldrick?

You could have walked with her. Following her without her knowing is really weird and odd. And she was fine anyway wasn't she, you didn't have to rescue her from a random assailant.

There's a story I read on Twitter today in the aftermath of the developments in this case of a woman when she was 17 walking back from a friend's house, realising someone was behind her. A bit freaked out, she crossed the road. They followed. She walked faster, they sped up. She started running and realised the person was gaining on her. She stopped and turned around preparing to fight for her life....and it was her friend's dad, claiming he wanted to make sure she got home safe.

Still feel like it was the right thing to do?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Can I just add that this was nothing to do with white knight behaviour or the such - at the insistence of my wife (as stated ) and my neighbours.
Not to mention genuine concern.

If that did happen; and I can completely imagine a night of drinks and insisting that I was okay to walk/get home alone, as well as imagine your wife/neighbours saying noooooooo it's not safe after i'd left and putting you on the spot, make sure she gets home and you trundling off to make sure of that...I don't know why your wife told her.

She should have kept quiet because regardless of the motive, it does sound creepy and it would have unnerved me too, especially because after a night drinking the next day is a little raw and whilst I was replaying it and filling the inevitable gaps it would make me feel more vulnerable to know someone had managed to follow me for 90 minutes without me noticing, regardless of who they were and why. Stalking, flashing, following, dangerous, raping, assaulting men are the thing most women fear. Our wits and getting home safe is all we have. Can you not see that?

When you do 'well meaning' things, often just keeping quiet about them is the better option. Of course now we mostly bundle our friends in to ubers that we've insisted on booking and paying for if we think they are a little too worse for wear.

 

[bimble]

Sarah Everard walks down a street in south London and is found dead somewhere in Kent. This is so far from the usual, it’s the stuff of nightmares, what do people say to their daughters to explain it but not terrify them, I don’t know.

 

[killer b]

someone had managed to follow me for 90 minutes without me noticing

maybe they noticed, and were terrified most of the way home.

 

[izz]

I think 40% is low too. It was a small sample survey

I can't 'like' that post but I can concur.

 

[Mr paulee]

If that did happen; and I can completely imagine a night of drinks and insisting that I was okay to walk/get home alone, as well as imagine your wife/neighbours saying noooooooo it's not safe after i'd left and putting you on the spot, make sure she gets home and you trundling off to make sure of that...I don't know why your wife told her. She should have kept quiet because regardless of the motive, it does sound creepy and it would have unnerved me too, especially because after a night drinking the next day is a little raw and whilst I was replaying it and filling the inevitable gaps it would make me feel more vulnerable to know someone had managed to follow me for 90 minutes without me noticing, regardless of who they were and why. Can you not see that?

When you do 'well meaning' things, often just keeping quiet about them is the better option. Of course now we mostly bundle our friends in to ubers that we've insisted on booking and paying for if we think they are a little too worse for wear.

I don't tell my wife what to tell and not tell her close friends.

 

[killer b]

*ex close friends

 

[Treacle Toes]

I don't tell my wife what to tell and not tell her close friends.

Good grief. I gave you a get out...a chance to see the point being made to you and you swerved it. It was a hypothetical, to illustrate what could be done better and why. I didn't tell you what you should tell your wife to do. I offered an alternative to demonstrate the point. But nah, you chose to ignore that with nonsense. You don't care about how women feel. Gotcha.