two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Both, really: awareness of restriction of all womens' freedoms because of the actions of some men.
RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021
- Thread starter trashpony
- Start date
bimble
floofy
Seems the guardian has the same Twitter as me.
www.theguardian.com
Women tell men how to make them feel safe after Sarah Everard disappearance
Social media deluged with posts about women feeling unsafe in public in the wake of the 33-year-old’s disappearance
No, it hasn't passed me by.
My post was asking for clarification on the point ( good one) that the poster was making.
Hope that's clear TrashPony?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
It’s no more dodgy than anywhere else.
As I’ve said several times, I often cut through those estates, in daylight and in darkness.
Being wary is a default background hum for many women. For me, that’s compounded by ongoing ptsd arsing from an abusive relationship in my recent past. When something like this happens, it’s hardly surprising that the background hum gets turned up to white noise levels.
It’s not about the area. It’s about men.
When I was under the cosh I’d often roam around the streets for hours and sit alone in pubs rather than go home. Home was not sanctuary. The streets felt safer.
But also, I find it curious that you’re thinking of this story with reference street crime when it appears to be male-on-female violence, and not a mugging that got out of hand.
For you, the primary meaning of “dodgy” is street crime while the women in recent posts are talking about sexual assault stuff making an area “dodgy”.
Not having a pop, rather reflecting your posts as they appear to me. And I do recognise that you are thoughtful about this stuff.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Is there ever a time that women don't worry that there is a sex attacker out there. That's the thing that passes men by isn't it?
Cloo
Banana for scale
Shit - I think our next door neighbour is in that team, he'll probably know the guy
The discussion this has brought up has been interesting. I seem to be the one woman in the world who hasn't faced much harrassment and has never felt like I've had to take a lot of action to avoid men at night (I did, when I was still going out late, worry a bit about my safety in terms of mugging etc, but never as a woman specifically). Now I used to think this meant other women were exagerrating, but I've since got over myself, listened to women and I think I was just very, very lucky not to have had much in the way of alarming or outright traumatic experiences. I sometimes explain this to guys who are in the 'well I've never seen it, so it can't be that bad' camp, as I didn't either, but I have paid attention to other women.
No it doesn't pass all men by, I can state unequivocally.
trashpony
Hag
I think a lot of men think this kind of thing is unrelated to what’s happened to Sarah. It isn’t. It is a constant barrage of harassment, day after day, from the time you are a little girl until you are an old woman. It’s exhausting, stressful, scary and really fucking infuriating.
I am so angry at all the men who do this shit. And all their nice guy mates who don’t call them out on it because Dave’s a bit sad and he hasn’t had a girlfriend for ages. So angry.
bimble
floofy
That's the thing. Without it being (in my case) clearly defined and conscious, that is the fear that guided a whole load of decisions and actions, that became second nature, or at least were whilst i lived in the city. The decision not to cut through the park, walk all the way round, the decision to not sit in that train carriage look for another one, to walk fast head down keys in hand, etc etc. It's completely 'normal' and massively stressful at the same time.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Yes.
When I was thinking last night, I wasn’t going “Oh my god! It could happen to me!” because that’s a familiar idea to me, and one I choose not to be governed by, so I walk about insist on my right to feel free.
Instead, my thinking last night was more along the lines of “...where it happen to me, or even when it happens to me, I wonder how long it would take for me to be missed by others?” And how has that been at different times of my life, for instance when I was 33. (Sarah Everard’s age).
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I actually think that this low level chronic stressful awareness contributes to some of the health issues women have to deal with in the long term.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
well...
Half of men have had unwanted sexual experiences, UK study finds
Mankind UK is calling for more attention to be paid to sexual abuse survivors who identify as male
there are many more sexual assaults against men that aren't mentioned than generally thought. by no means on the same level as sexual assaults / rapes of women. but something which is definitely undercounted and so unconsidered.
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
I think it's really depressing that any of that advice is not already totally fucking obvious by now, tbh.
As a woman, I already instinctively practise all of this if I'm walking through any enclosed or isolated space, even in bright daylight, if I find myself behind someone else, quite apart from the measures I take to look out for myself in those situations.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
And then in cases like this, cunts (mostly men) will think the victim made the wrong choices.
Fucking hate this
I've just been treating a young woman who was raped in her late teens (CBT for PTSD) . She's lived with the self blame since. I can't imagine what it's like to have the lived experience of trauma like that, or the fear of trauma like that. As part of her treatment we did a survey about attitudes towards victims of rape, because she thought everyone would think it was her fault, or she was dirty and damaged. Literally no one that answred survey thought that, but it's clearly an idea that victims have. Society is fucked when it comes to attitudes about victims of all sorts of crimes like this. From judges attitudes, media reporting etc etc.
The survey was answered by my colleagues. 40% had experienced sexual assault. This shit isn't unusual its almost the fucking norm and men have no fucking idea how threatening they are to women. Makes my blood boil
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Have you ever been worried about being sexually asaulted on the way home from the pub? Or not gone for a walk somewhere because you thought you might be sexually assaulted?well...
Half of men have had unwanted sexual experiences, UK study finds
Mankind UK is calling for more attention to be paid to sexual abuse survivors who identify as male
there are many more sexual assaults against men that aren't mentioned than generally thought. by no means on the same level as sexual assaults / rapes of women. but something which is definitely undercounted and so unconsidered.
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
Four-fifths of young women in the UK have been sexually harassed, survey finds
Exclusive: YouGov poll reveals extent of abuse and lack of faith in authorities’ ability to deal with it
I'd like to share something that happened two summers ago.
We had people round due to some of our mutual friends being back in London. Drinks and food - started late Saturday afternoon went on till early Sunday am.
When it cake to leaving time, one of my wife's uni friends who came on her own, wouldn't take the offer of a shared Uber etc to take her back to her Air B'nB, which was in Battersea. She was adamant that she could 'find her own way' etc.
Despite my wife (her friend of over 24 years) repeatedly asking her to either stay with us or get a cab, she left to go home.
I followed her, not only due to my wife insistence but my own fear of her getting lost/falling over or worse. I just wanted her to be safe and in her inebriated state, I couldn't be sure.
Over 90 mins later she had walked the whole distance to her accommodation unknowing that I was following her.
Few days later she called to say thank you for the party etc and wonderful to see everyone. My wife then explained what I had done .The friend was incandescent with rage, how we had not listened to her and disrespected her etc. My wife was both shocked and very upset.
She has not been in contact with us since.
That evening, we did the right thing and made the right choice in my opinion.
I tell you this story, not out of any kind of virtue signalling or woe betide us men having to make tough decisions etc, but to highlight that the majority f men know what to do and how to behave.
We had people round due to some of our mutual friends being back in London. Drinks and food - started late Saturday afternoon went on till early Sunday am.
When it cake to leaving time, one of my wife's uni friends who came on her own, wouldn't take the offer of a shared Uber etc to take her back to her Air B'nB, which was in Battersea. She was adamant that she could 'find her own way' etc.
Despite my wife (her friend of over 24 years) repeatedly asking her to either stay with us or get a cab, she left to go home.
I followed her, not only due to my wife insistence but my own fear of her getting lost/falling over or worse. I just wanted her to be safe and in her inebriated state, I couldn't be sure.
Over 90 mins later she had walked the whole distance to her accommodation unknowing that I was following her.
Few days later she called to say thank you for the party etc and wonderful to see everyone. My wife then explained what I had done .The friend was incandescent with rage, how we had not listened to her and disrespected her etc. My wife was both shocked and very upset.
She has not been in contact with us since.
That evening, we did the right thing and made the right choice in my opinion.
I tell you this story, not out of any kind of virtue signalling or woe betide us men having to make tough decisions etc, but to highlight that the majority f men know what to do and how to behave.
Plumdaff
joy in people
There's an expectation that women should "keep themselves safe". We shouldn't be out, we shouldn't be drinking, we should watch what we wear, how we act, what we say. Because if we get attacked it's on us, our fault. You can see the reactions on social media in this case.
The logical thing to do would be to curfew men when there's an uncaught sexual attacker. But men aren't responsible for it - women are made to be.
The logical thing to do would be to curfew men when there's an uncaught sexual attacker. But men aren't responsible for it - women are made to be.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Do we really need a ‘what about the fellas?’ on this particular thread?well...
Half of men have had unwanted sexual experiences, UK study finds
Mankind UK is calling for more attention to be paid to sexual abuse survivors who identify as male
there are many more sexual assaults against men that aren't mentioned than generally thought. by no means on the same level as sexual assaults / rapes of women. but something which is definitely undercounted and so unconsidered.
There are men on this thread even making witticisms ffs
bimble
floofy
that is a very weird story!
Tbh i think i'd have been furious too. And the moral at the end about the majority of men is.. odd.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I haven't myself. But there will be a fair number of men whose experiences will be rather different. There was that case in the news recently about the man who'd raped something like 200 men, so there's definitely something there that only occasionally emerges into public consciousness. I simply dropped the article into the thread because it seemed relevant to your post and I thought I'd made clear I wasn't suggesting any kind of equivalence of numbers or experience etc but I was obviously wrong.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's not a what about the fellas. I dropped it in because it seemed relevant to mumbles' post, because of the recent research.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I got that book "Everyday Sexism" (I think on the recommendation of someone here). It's an uncomfortable read, but it's a useful way of getting across the point that the kind of things that make women feel uncomfortable are a lot more embedded in the way society - and men within it - operates than we might like to think.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Men getting sexually asaualted is relevant to men sure (not saying it isn't relevant to anyone else) . But this thread is about the dissappearanceof a woman and violence towards women. Men can have their voices and worries head when they need to, not when it's not about them
izz
Increased Leisure Citizen
No there never really is. Moving away from cities and towns has helped me a lot with this, but even at 59 I'm never not aware of where other people are in shops, crowds etc. My mother told me a few years ago she was worried I was losing my 'street smarts' but I was able to reassure here that no, it never leaves you.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
The reason she was so furious, I suspect, was that you had done exactly the thing that tends to scare women: she had made an explicit request to go home alone, and you decided you knew better. That's what happens when some stranger says "give us a kiss, darlin'" and won't take no for an answer. It's disempowering, no matter how noble your motives might have been.
