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RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

purenarcotic said:
Can you give a specific example? Genuinely trying to understand what you mean. Do you mean it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to wear a mini skirt if I was going to visit a synagogue or something?
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Yes, or for me to wear a very revealing top on a Ward round, etc
 
LeytonCatLady said:
...

By the way dessiato , you come across as a good kind bloke and I think you're probably looking at the situation with a protective eye because you don't like to see women getting hurt. I understand that, and appreciate you listening to our explanations as to why it's not that simple.
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I do try to understand. I have a wife, four sisters, and seven nieces. I have listened to one sister talk about being raped, another being sexually abused, so yes, I want to protect them, but not just them, every single female. If feeling like this makes me wrong, so be it.
 
dessiato said:
I do try to understand. I have a wife, four sisters, and seven nieces. I have listened to one sister talk about being raped, another being sexually abused, so yes, I want to protect them, but not just them, every single female. If feeling like this makes me wrong, so be it.
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No, not "so be it". You can feel protective of your loved ones - it's what you do and say about it that can be tweaked and improved., and I took LeytonCatLady's post as some gentle pointers as to how the experience of being a woman does not necessarily fit neatly alongside the male experience of wanting to protect, etc., in the way that we (men) might be prone to thinking it does.
 
existentialist said:
No, not "so be it". You can feel protective of your loved ones - it's what you do and say about it that can be tweaked and improved., and I took LeytonCatLady's post as some gentle pointers as to how the experience of being a woman does not necessarily fit neatly alongside the male experience of wanting to protect, etc., in the way that we (men) might be prone to thinking it does.
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Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's good to want to protect your loved ones as long as you respect their autonomy and choices, which it sounds like dessiato does. The problem is when the Met give out bullshit, victim blamey advice like "Don't go out at night, ladies, for your own good" because they can't admit THEY fucked up in ignoring the red flags regarding Couzens.
 
LeytonCatLady said:
There wasn't. And I love the assumption that everyone drives...:rolleyes:
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Over here, most women drive.
My daughters always drove themselves to events instead of car sharing.
It made them feel safer not having to rely on others.

But, there is an assumption that all females have a cell phone.
I don't, so it doesn't matter about that line about the charger.

Do you any issues with the other stuff suggested?
 
spring-peeper said:
Do you any issues with the other stuff suggested?
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Not if people are in a position to take those suggestions. But someone might not always have a choice (for example, might not have internet banking and might need to run to a cashpoint for an emergency tenner). My post wasn't having a go at you, by the way; in fact it was agreement with your point that this advice doesn't get given to blokes because it's assumed they can just...live their life. And admittedly my driving roll-eye was pretty London-centric! But even in the rest of the UK, plenty of people can't afford to drive and might rely on public transport (for example, my mum couldn't afford lessons until she was almost 50).
 
LeytonCatLady said:
Not if people are in a position to take those suggestions. But someone might not always have a choice (for example, might not have internet banking and might need to run to a cashpoint for an emergency tenner). My post wasn't having a go at you, by the way; in fact it was agreement with your point that this advice doesn't get given to blokes because it's assumed they can just...live their life. And admittedly my driving roll-eye was pretty London-centric! But even in the rest of the UK, plenty of people can't afford to drive and might rely on public transport (for example, my mum couldn't afford lessons until she was almost 50).
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All the above are good reasons why this was posted on a Canadian news feed and not a British one.
 
So, on a thread about a woman who was kidnapped, raped and murdered we are basically saying women should stop doing anything if their behaviour leads them to get harrassed (at best)

Mint. Just fucking mint.

I want to say ‘have some fucking respect’ but if women had that we wouldn’t be in this situation.

This thread is a shitshow.
 
Glitter said:
So, on a thread about a woman who was kidnapped, raped and murdered we are basically saying women should stop doing anything if their behaviour leads them to get harrassed (at best)

Mint. Just fucking mint.

I want to say ‘have some fucking respect’ but if women had that we wouldn’t be in this situation.

This thread is a shitshow.
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BY A COPPER.
 
dessiato said:
I'm a bit puzzled by the story. She might, due to her experience, be very much more aware of police officers appearing.

It might be true that there's a lot of dodgy coppers contacting her now.

I really don't know.

If she's being bothered then some sort of action/investigation needs to be undertaken.

But a thing that does puzzle me is that she hasn't changed or closed her tinder account. I accept she shouldn't need to, but if that's the only immediate action she can take to stop the harassment then why hasn't she? I know I would.
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Let's believe her account of events that are happening to her

and not suggest she modifies her behaviour to stop people doing something threatening
 
I'm so angry about this. And about * waves hands * all of it. Just as an example, here is a local Wayne Couzens waiting to happen (or maybe he's already happened, just not been caught). This guy might have sat behind me on the bus, or walked his dog past my house of an evening, or be someone I know. And he's just walking around out there still. The fucking cognitive dissonance of existing in a world alongside all the men that you know and like and then being aware that some of them might have done something like this, and how are we (women) supposed to be able to tell which ones are which?

www.bbc.co.uk

DNA advances link Edinburgh rapist to third attack on women

A man who assaulted Jenna Pike in Edinburgh in 2012 went on to rape one woman and sexually assault another.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Plumdaff said:
When men get assaulted in the street they don't get this fucking discourse of "he was asking for it, getting drunk in a pub......wandering home by himself eating a kebab, what did he think would happen?"
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We sometimes get a watered down version. The police advised me never to talk to anyone in Windrush Square late at night. So I immediately felt it was my fault that I was robbed.
 
bimble said:
i agree with you. It's a difficult one to talk about.
My ideas are impacted by the fact that I've done quite a bit of travel, some to do with work, often in places where for example women never show their legs at all, or their shoulders etc, depending. If you were to turn up in a strappy vest and short shorts and expect to be treated with any kind of respect by anybody, men or women, because 'its my right to wear whatever i want', you'd be (imo) a fool. And even though we like to imagine that its entirely different here nobody cares or nobody judges or reacts or whatever, thats just not how things work.

The most important bit though is, as you say, that nothing a person wears is any kind of green light for harassment or assault. That's the bit that matters.
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I get that realistically if your going abroad this might be the case.

But isn't what your describing an effect of Patriarchal societies? That in certain societies you at best as a woman would be considered foolish for dressing how you like!?
I
 
Edie said:
I don’t know if I hold with that. I think we all have some responsibility to recognise that if we dress in a particularly provocative or revealing way, you will attract attention. That is the point, after all. I don’t think it gives the green light for sexual harassment or assault.

But I don’t think we are, or should be, free to wear anything we want at any given time. We have a responsibility to consider the effect of what we are wearing on others.
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What your missing here is who the We is who decides what is provocative. Provocative is a strong word to use. It implies that knowingly dressing in a certain way will provoke others not in a good way.

Of course the We is generally men in a patriarchal society. Who decide what is or isn't something that will "provoke" them. Its not women.

What is considered provocative has changed over time. Its also something that has been a contested area.

Rather than see it as a responsibility issue its Imo better to see it as contested area.

I sometimes work for a fashion company. There the norms about dress are quite different to everyday society. What I'm saying is that dress isn't something with a fixed system.

The underlying problem is that at this time there isn't a way for people to dress in way that attracts attention without the underlying danger of abuse. A healthy sexual culture where people of all sexualities can be sexual and mix. With attention being part of this in way that isn't threatening social censure or violence. Which imo is point of sexual liberation.

I say people as I've known people who have fluid dress sense. Non binary. Been in public social situation where they got stick.
 
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two sheds said:
men walking round in expensive suits and wearing expensive watches are just asking to be robbed - judges should mention this and take it into consideration if it comes to court. Same with expensive cars - they're just asking for it :mad:
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TBF I have always avoided expensive cars even when I might have been able to afford them because I like to be able to park pretty much anywhere and not come back to my car all keyed. Despite all that on the first day I had a 2l Cavalier in dark metalic blue it was keyed outside my house apparently because the keyer thought it was a car owned by a policeman or woman from the station at the bottom of the road. :(
 
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