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RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

There are quite a few (often Canadian, for some reason) women police officer whistleblowers who have in recent years shared some of the horrendous misogyny and threats of sexual violence directed at them by 'colleagues' in things like private group chats.

Effy Zarabi-Majd and Heather McWilliam in particular have documented truly awful culture.



Various here:
 
Am I getting this wrong, or was it considered to be reasonable that he handed her over to this fake gang.

‘I just kidnapped her and handed her over because I was in financial shit’ appears to be acceptable.

This was his carefully crafted and intricate story when questioned.

Who the fuck lives in a world where ‘I kidnapped her and handed her to gangsters’ is a plausible excuse for anything?
 
Well obviously you ask them if you can call their control centre and they say ‘yes of course’ and give you the number and stand there waiting whike yo find out if they’re a legitimate, state paid rapist.

I keep thinking about Sarah’s family. They must be raging when they hear all this shite advice.

oh and I came across this today. One bad apple indeed:

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/cop-fly-kicks-15-old-123400054.html
Wtf, the guy who took the video "claimed that the girls were confronted by police after they were caught underage in a pub." Jesus fucking Christ. All that for a cheeky underage pint or whatever.
 
Wtf, the guy who took the video "claimed that the girls were confronted by police after they were caught underage in a pub." Jesus fucking Christ. All that for a cheeky underage pint or whatever.
Yeah, underage drinking is just like SO MUCH WORSE than kicking the shit out of someone half your size. As if PC McVigilante never enjoyed the odd illicit beer himself before 18, the hypocritical old bastard.
 
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Wtf, the guy who took the video "claimed that the girls were confronted by police after they were caught underage in a pub." Jesus fucking Christ. All that for a cheeky underage pint or whatever.
Yeah a couple of lairy drunk barefoot teenagers. And he jumped out of the van and threw a flying kick at her belly.

The police have a problem not least because they have such a shit rep. No decent person wants to become a copper. Because everyone knows they’re misogynist racist homophobic arseholes
 
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Yeah a couple of lairy drunk barefoot teenagers. And he jumped out of the van and theew a flying kick at her belly.

The police have a problem not least because they have such a shit rep. No decent person wants to become a copper. Because everyone knows they’re misogynist racist homophobic arseholes
Too true. A neighbour's son is a mature student studying criminology because he wants to be a detective and, frankly, the thought of him becoming a copper is disturbing. He's got anger management issues, talks about wanting to punch people, got a bit of a drink problem, possibly a bit of a drug problem. There's an angry powder-keg vibe emanating from him. I'd hope he wouldn't get past a psych eval, but if he does manage to talk his way in, it wouldn't surprise me to see him featured in the news in a decade or so, and not in a good way.

ETA: I've experienced/witnessed a lot of male violence in my life, can usually clock a wrong 'un when I come across one, and my spidey senses are tingling.
 
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Wonder, in light of this horror, is there any argument for women carrying some kind of weapons? Not necessarily handguns but something they can fend off assailants with?
 
Wonder, in light of this horror, is there any argument for women carrying some kind of weapons? Not necessarily handguns but something they can fend off assailants with?
I know a few women who carry knives, and I can't strongly object if it makes them feel safer.

But, no, it is not generally a good idea or a solution to anything. I think a woman who produces a knife is, on average, putting themselves at greater risk of violence, and may end up getting stabbed with their own weapon. Plus, I don't think the experience of using a knife on someone is, in reality, something anyone benefits from going through.
 
Too true. A neighbour's son is a mature student studying criminology because he wants to be a detective and, frankly, the thought of him becoming a copper is disturbing. He's got anger management issues, talks about wanting to punch people, got a bit of a drink problem, possibly a bit of a drug problem. There's an angry powder-keg vibe emanating from him. I'd hope he wouldn't get past a psych eval, but if he does manage to talk his way in, it wouldn't surprise me to see him featured in the news in a decade or so, and not in a good way.

ETA: I've experienced/witnessed a lot of male violence in my life, can usually clock a wrong 'un when I come across one, and my spidey senses are tingling.


My husband watched part of a show called "Cops".
It was American and the promos for the show were police that where inspired by the show to become cops.

After watching 5-10 minutes, he turned to my son and said that they were a bunch of bullies on a power trip.
Son agreed, and the channel was changed.

I watched a bit one time, cops roaming the beach as the youth was partying. They were looking for underage drinkers.
I saw a full grown man throw a little blond teenager into the sand and rested his foot on the girl.
He then told the camera that she showed him false id. He does not have the patience for this type of stuff.

If future cops think this is a recruitment film......

The show was canceled after the George Floyd murder.
 
I know a few women who carry knives, and I can't strongly object if it makes them feel safer.

But, no, it is not generally a good idea or a solution to anything. I think a woman who produces a knife is, on average, putting themselves at greater risk of violence, and may end up getting stabbed with their own weapon. Plus, I don't think the experience of using a knife on someone is, in reality, something anyone benefits from going through.

Not generally in favour of anyone being tooled up, be it police or public. As mentioned upthread, more in favour of educating young men and challenging idiotic/gross/misogynist comments from other men (mates/colleagues/random) but there will always be these extremists like the murderer who took Sarah Everard's life.

How can women ever be totally at ease when there are haters/terrorists who are determined to carry out their grim misdeeds?
 
There was a petition in March, about legalising the carrying of pepper spray for self defence purposes (illegal for civilians here but standard issue for police). It was rejected.
In America it's pretty normal for women to have a spray like that on them when they go out, and/or an alarm that emits a really loud noise, just in case like.
 
grim. Ten thousand indecent exposure incidents reported to police in 2019-2020. Vast majority ignored.
I am really surprised though that they reckon only 1 in 10 women have been 'flashed'. I'd have thought its way more than that.
 
grim. Ten thousand indecent exposure incidents reported to police in 2019-2020. Vast majority ignored.
I am really surprised though that they reckon only 1 in 10 women have been 'flashed'. I'd have thought its way more than that.

Do unsolicited dick pics count as flashing? Number will shoot up if so.
 
Do unsolicited dick pics count as flashing? Number will shoot up if so.
Seems like no but it's being discussed / considered, making them count. I can see how thats a minefield, more complex than 'upskirting' & 'revenge porn' which have recently been made illegal.
 
Has happened to me 3 times :( and never reported it, twice on the tube in London.
If it ever happened again will report because now belatedly i realise it is serious, not just because of it being a horrible experience but also in that the men who do this they are probably / potentially dangerous people not just some kind of weirdos.
 
Has happened to me 3 times :( and never reported it, twice on the tube in London.
If it ever happened again will report because now belatedly i realise it is serious, not just because of it being a horrible experience but also in that the men who do this they are probably / potentially dangerous people not just some kind of weirdos.
True. I'm going to admit the one time I saw a flasher, I didn't really see it as a threat. I was a cocky 23-year-old and said "I'd put that away if I were you, you might catch cold!" I dismissed him as a sad attention seeker and didn't really stop to consider at the time that blokes like him don't stop there.
 
Am I getting this wrong, or was it considered to be reasonable that he handed her over to this fake gang.

‘I just kidnapped her and handed her over because I was in financial shit’ appears to be acceptable.

This was his carefully crafted and intricate story when questioned.

Who the fuck lives in a world where ‘I kidnapped her and handed her to gangsters’ is a plausible excuse for anything?

It’s desperate. The difference between a few years for kidnap and what he’s got now. And as it seems he was someone who used prostitutes, he could use some of that knowledge as a foundation for this lie.
I’ve listened to quite a few police interview tapes, for work many years ago. Nothing as serious as this, but some of the bullshit people come out with is quite astonishing.
 
this is spot on, the whole flag down a bus response has been not just absurd but an attempt to distract us from the issue of police abuse of power.

'The problem is not about public confidence about whether these people are police officers or not.
The problem is that they are police officers.'


 
this is spot on, the whole flag down a bus response has been not just absurd but an attempt to distract us from the issue of police abuse of power.

'The problem is not about public confidence about whether these people are police officers or not.
The problem is that they are police officers.'


I'm not sure if this thread is an appropriate place to discuss it*, but maybe the even deeper problem is not that some individual people get through the vetting procedures and become police officers where we think they shouldn't, but that this case (not just the actions of this one individual, but the whole subsequent process, including the heavy handed policing of vigils and protests, and the attempts to excuse and victim blame) is an (admittedly extreme) example of what the Police are and what the Police do.

* and if it's felt it isn't, I'll start a separate thread to discuss it.
 
I'm not sure if this thread is an appropriate place to discuss it*, but maybe the even deeper problem is not that some individual people get through the vetting procedures and become police officers where we think they shouldn't, but that this case (not just the actions of this one individual, but the whole subsequent process, including the heavy handed policing of vigils and protests, and the attempts to excuse and victim blame) is an (admittedly extreme) example of what the Police are and what the Police do.

* and if it's felt it isn't, I'll start a separate thread to discuss it.
I think that’s very much the case. And very much the point.
 
Wonder, in light of this horror, is there any argument for women carrying some kind of weapons? Not necessarily handguns but something they can fend off assailants with?
Back in the day, some women who didn't use hairspray used to carry it for that purpose (being legal unlike other sprays and its presence in their bag explicable).

I suspect it's no longer a thing due to the high possibility of your own 'weapon' being used against you.

Carrying a gun or knife seems like a really dangerous/stupid thing to do. :rolleyes: And again is putting the onus on the potential victim.

(And no weapon would have helped poor Sarah Everard, given she was handcuffed before she presumably knew anything was amiss.)
 
I know a few women who carry knives, and I can't strongly object if it makes them feel safer.

But, no, it is not generally a good idea or a solution to anything. I think a woman who produces a knife is, on average, putting themselves at greater risk of violence, and may end up getting stabbed with their own weapon. Plus, I don't think the experience of using a knife on someone is, in reality, something anyone benefits from going through.
I suspect the women you know have given the matter some thought and concluded it would be better to be there and possibly be traumatised than not to be there at all.
 
I'm not sure if this thread is an appropriate place to discuss it*, but maybe the even deeper problem is not that some individual people get through the vetting procedures and become police officers where we think they shouldn't, but that this case (not just the actions of this one individual, but the whole subsequent process, including the heavy handed policing of vigils and protests, and the attempts to excuse and victim blame) is an (admittedly extreme) example of what the Police are and what the Police do.

* and if it's felt it isn't, I'll start a separate thread to discuss it.
One of my colleagues was briefly a police officer. I asked him about it a while ago. He got out asap because he realised that every single person there was 'an inadequate' as he put it. They were there to take out their powerlessness on society. At 6'3" and being a bit of a gentle giant type who's actually quite naive and really wanted to help people, he got very sick of their shit very, very quickly and left.

Fragile egos and criticism do not make for a happy outcome. Hence the police actions at the vigil. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of that rather than less. The police are likely to double down if anything, at least that's my prediction.
 
One of my colleagues was briefly a police officer. I asked him about it a while ago. He got out asap because he realised that every single person there was 'an inadequate' as he put it. They were there to take out their powerlessness on society. At 6'3" and being a bit of a gentle giant type who's actually quite naive and really wanted to help people, he got very sick of their shit very, very quickly and left.

Fragile egos and criticism do not make for a happy outcome. Hence the police actions at the vigil. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of that rather than less. The police are likely to double down if anything, at least that's my prediction.
This reminded me of some slightly-pissed musings I was having last night.

Suppose someone, aware of what happened, were to be transported back in time to that night - to the moment captured on the CCTV when Sarah Everard was "arrested". What would they do? What could they do. Armed with hindsight, I imagine it wouldn't be quite as hard to walk up and challenge the arrest...but what then? The perpetrator may well get spooked, and do a runner. You might call the police - interesting conversation - and say "I think someone just tried to abduct someone by flashing their warrant card. They've got abduction stuff in the car" (you'd know this, because you read the sentencing report before you travelled back in time).

Does anyone think that there's much likelihood that this would even be followed up? Or that a hue-and-cry might ensue to prevent another woman, somewhere else, being abducted? Given the way the police have been talking since the sentencing, my feeling is that it'd be dismissed, or waved away - there'd be a denial that it could possibly be an active police officer, that the warrant card was real, or that any threat existed.

With policing as it is right now, I'd say that the chances of stopping something like this happening again are just as minimal as they were before Sarah Everard was abducted. It's not even "closing ranks" - I think there is an institutional perception that this kind of thing just doesn't happen. Until it does, and even then they'll busily "other" the offender, and carry on exactly the same. The only thing, I think, that makes this a comparatively rare event is the fact that most people, even coppers, don't get to the stage where abducting and murdering women is an option. But that's no thanks to the police, their processes, or their willingness to take a very hard look at themselves.

We are no further on since this prosecution than we were before it happened, and I see no appetite for change within police institutions. :(
 
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