Athos
Well-Known Member
Yeah, fair point. Perhaps 'normal' want the best word; I was trying to convey the idea that he wasn't an obvious psycopath, even if he was obviously (to some) a potential predator.
RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021
- Thread starter trashpony
- Start date
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I know what you mean. Interestingly the Golden State Killer planned not to do crimes, once DNA systems were up and running, he stopped.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if he was seen as normal in that environment then perhaps that environment needs to be changed
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Broadly speaking killers fall into disorganised or organised types.
Look at Israel Keyes. Had his own business, a partner and young daughter, was by all accounts a good partner and father, a good worker.
He'd been travelling all over the US, hiding his tracks, burying kill kits (weapons, rope, duct tape, plus cash so he left no tracks) FOR YEARS, to this day the authorities don't know how many people he killed, or even where. He's admitted to a few, that's it. Then after exactly one year in custody he killed himself.
It's thought he decompensated towards the end as he abducted, raped and killed someone close to his home, and got caught.
Look at Israel Keyes. Had his own business, a partner and young daughter, was by all accounts a good partner and father, a good worker.
He'd been travelling all over the US, hiding his tracks, burying kill kits (weapons, rope, duct tape, plus cash so he left no tracks) FOR YEARS, to this day the authorities don't know how many people he killed, or even where. He's admitted to a few, that's it. Then after exactly one year in custody he killed himself.
It's thought he decompensated towards the end as he abducted, raped and killed someone close to his home, and got caught.
bimble
floofy
Exactly.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Anyway, for all the people saying they can't imagine anyone doing anything like this, all I can say is that your brain probably isn't wired like his is.
Whilst ever the police continue to police themselves, the environment may never change.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
Yep. How many times do we hear excuses made for blokes who act creepy, like "Oh, he's just lonely" or "Oh, that's what men do!" That's so insulting to the millions of decent men who wouldn't patronise, objectify or treat a woman like shit. And it's not good enough. It shouldn't be "what men do".
Athos
Well-Known Member
Thank god!
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
That's just X
That's how he is
Just ignore him
He's just joking
Don't be so serious/lighten up
Well you're pretty/dressed nice, what do you expect?
Be nice to him, he finds it hard talking to women
So many excuses, not one of them is taking their 'mate' aside with a 'don't speak to women like that/behave like that'.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Latest on WhatsAppGate:
5 serving, one former officer under investigation. Two forces other than the Met involved
5 serving, one former officer under investigation. Two forces other than the Met involved
Sarah Everard: Gross misconduct probe into Couzens WhatsApp group
Sarah Everard's killer is believed to have been in a chat with officers sharing "discriminatory" content.
www.bbc.co.uk
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Here's a suggestion, set up an independent vetting body to handle all vetting for new and transferring policy officers. Make sure any person involved except as a witness in any suspect situation or incidental, even peripherally, has their application flagged for a deeper investigation.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
The advice to 'stop a bus', although it's obviously not a solution to murderers being in the police force, is actually good advice to anyone feeling threatened, because the buses are filming everything. Couzens was caught so quickly because a bus camera image from the route Sarah was walking was clear enough to show the number plate of Couzens' hire car. This is unusual...normally the image is too fuzzy. If it hadn't been for that bus camera Couzens might have gone on to kill more women.
inews.co.uk
How police caught Sarah Everard's killer and discovered he was one of their own
CCTV footage from the night Sarah Everard went missing linked the police officer to a Vauxhall Astra in the area where she was last seen
inews.co.uk
Thora
Differently Ethical
Bus drivers aren't going to stop any time someone flags them down though. I'd imagine bus drivers would be even less likely to stop and get in the middle of a threatening situation too.The advice to 'stop a bus', although it's obviously not a solution to murderers being in the police force, is actually good advice to anyone feeling threatened, because the buses are filming everything. Couzens was caught so quickly because a bus camera image from the route Sarah was walking was clear enough to show the number plate of Couzens' hire car. This is unusual...normally the image is too fuzzy. If it hadn't been for that bus camera Couzens might have gone on to kill more women.
How police caught Sarah Everard's killer and discovered he was one of their own
CCTV footage from the night Sarah Everard went missing linked the police officer to a Vauxhall Astra in the area where she was last seen
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Well yes and no.The advice to 'stop a bus', although it's obviously not a solution to murderers being in the police force, is actually good advice to anyone feeling threatened, because the buses are filming everything. Couzens was caught so quickly because a bus camera image from the route Sarah was walking was clear enough to show the number plate of Couzens' hire car. This is unusual...normally the image is too fuzzy. If it hadn't been for that bus camera Couzens might have gone on to kill more women.
How police caught Sarah Everard's killer and discovered he was one of their own
CCTV footage from the night Sarah Everard went missing linked the police officer to a Vauxhall Astra in the area where she was last seen
Now that he's been caught using bus camera images anyone thinking of doing a similar crime will simply choose an area to look for victims away from bus routes and CCTV cameras.
Also, there's plenty of places without night buses or services running infrequently enough that it would not be the work of a genius to determine when buses were around and just avoid them.
Buses are not a magic bullet for this type of thing, and for the Met to suggest they could be is laughable.
shakespearegirl
just worked out taglines
I once tried to flag down a bus as I was being chased down Coldharbour Lane by a bunch of teenagers I’d stopped beating up a younger kid, driver simply ignored me.. luckily there was a police car a bit further up the road and the kids scarpered when I managed to attract their attention.
Yossarian
⏭️
This "flag down a bus" crap just seems like an effort to shift blame away from the police for its massive failures - "If you think there's something off about your arrest, why not try flagging down one of the buses that are constantly driving up and down every road in the land night and day?"
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Then that should change. Easy way for a force to offload a problem otherwise.
Athos
Well-Known Member
That's another thing I find odd about this case. I know coppers aren't all renowned for being bright, but you'd have thought that anyone with even the most basic grasp of investigative techniques would understand enough to e.g. keep away from CCTV, be aware of cell siting of phones, not provide their real details to the hire company, leave a trail of their movements through card payments, bury a body on their own land, etc. Maybe he was thick, maybe he was complacent having got away with similar before, or maybe it was just the arrogance that nobody would believe it was him.
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
Thora
Differently Ethical
We just don't need any more "how not to get raped and murdered" advice. Every woman and girl I'm sure knows all the what to wear, have your hair, where to go, who to go with, what to drink, how to hold your drink, where to park, how to unlock your car, where to sit on public transport, how to respond to men if you don't want to get raped and murdered advice. How not to get raped and murdered by the police advice doesn't help.
Advice on how to increase the chance of your body being recovered, dna evidence being found or your attacker being prosecuted (text your location, take a photo of his number plate, position yourself near cameras, scratch him) is particularly unwelcome.
Advice on how to increase the chance of your body being recovered, dna evidence being found or your attacker being prosecuted (text your location, take a photo of his number plate, position yourself near cameras, scratch him) is particularly unwelcome.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I suffer from depression.
So far as I'm aware, the symptoms don't include kidnap, rape, murder and burning a body.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
'get in car'
'hold on, I just have to take a photo of your number plate'
'oh ok, but hurry up'
Click
'all done'
Stupid advice for the most part, that I hope not to see on this thread.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I shouldn't have laughed, but it was the hollow type of laughter.
Thora
Differently Ethical
It's more often advice about getting taxis - take a photo of the number plate so if you go missing they'll be able to find the driver.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
No, quite.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Indeed. I’ve had depression for decades without doing any of that. I’ve never even stolen a bottle of wine.
bimble
floofy
actually furious, all over again, seeing this now.
this was said today, on bbc radio, by an elected police commisioner.
she should never have submitted to that, the silly woman.
this was said today, on bbc radio, by an elected police commisioner.
she should never have submitted to that, the silly woman.
Sarah Everard murder: Police boss Philip Allott urged to quit over comments
Commissioner Philip Allott said women "need to be streetwise" in the wake of the Sarah Everard case.
www.bbc.co.uk
