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RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

Cid said:
That's well summed up... So I'll tack the most fucked-up thing mentioned when the judge discusses mitigation onto the end of that:



(Paragraph 11)
Click to expand...
My take on that was that the judge seemed to be saying "this is the totality of what I can say as far as mitigation goes." The legal equivalent of damning with faint praise: and damning those colleagues who spoke well of him, too. Perhaps that's a judicial way of saying "this isn't one rotten apple in a barrel - the barrel's evidently rotten".
 
Cid said:
That's well summed up... So I'll tack the most fucked-up thing mentioned when the judge discusses mitigation onto the end of that:



(Paragraph 11)
Click to expand...
The idea that former colleagues would stick up for him after what he'd admitted doing is as telling as it is terrifying. And rather goes against the Met's official line that he was an abberation that they don't consider to be one of their own.
 
What’s been baffling me is that it was totally planned. He told his family he was working and actually bought the stuff he needed. It’s not like something happened and he snapped.

From what I’ve been reading as well, it seems like he was a perfectly nice husband. Doesn’t appear to have been horrid to his wife so I was wrong about that.
 
Athos said:
The idea that former colleagues would stick up for him after what he'd admitted doing is as telling as it is terrifying. And rather goes against the Met's official line that he was an abberation that they don't consider to be one of their own.
Click to expand...
I presume this is the bit where some representative of the murdering rapist twat went around his colleagues asking if some of them would provide a character reference. Which, evidently, at least one must have done. That might be a good place to start a followup investigation.
 
existentialist said:
My take on that was that the judge seemed to be saying "this is the totality of what I can say as far as mitigation goes." The legal equivalent of damning with faint praise: and damning those colleagues who spoke well of him, too. Perhaps that's a judicial way of saying "this isn't one rotten apple in a barrel - the barrel's evidently rotten".
Click to expand...

Both the judge and barrister have to mention it, that's why I tacked it onto your post... And yes, may rather have that effect. But presumably the defence actually found more than one colleague who was willing to put in writing 'Oh yeah, Waste, he's not that bad'.
 
moomoo said:
What’s been baffling me is that it was totally planned. He told his family he was working and actually bought the stuff he needed. It’s not like something happened and he snapped.

From what I’ve been reading as well, it seems like he was a perfectly nice husband. Doesn’t appear to have been horrid to his wife so I was wrong about that.
Click to expand...
Preparing for at least a month before.
 
moomoo said:
What’s been baffling me is that it was totally planned. He told his family he was working and actually bought the stuff he needed. It’s not like something happened and he snapped.

From what I’ve been reading as well, it seems like he was a perfectly nice husband. Doesn’t appear to have been horrid to his wife so I was wrong about that.
Click to expand...
Weeks in the planning (at least); the judge referred to a number of otherwise unexplained trips to London.

You can almost understand (though obviously not excuse) how a man who is mentally ill fails to control a sexual urge, then panics and kills his victim. But for someone apparantly normal and self-possessed to plan and carry this out seems so utterly beyond the pale.
 
Athos said:
Weeks in the planning (at least); the judge referred to a number of otherwise unexplained trips to London.

You can almost understand (though obviously not excuse) how a man who is mentally ill fails to control a sexual urge, then panics and kills his victim. But for someone apparantly normal and self-possessed to plan and carry this out seems so utterly beyond the pale.
Click to expand...
I note that the judge dismissed the significance of the claims of depression in fairly short order, too.
 
moomoo said:
What’s been baffling me is that it was totally planned. He told his family he was working and actually bought the stuff he needed. It’s not like something happened and he snapped.

From what I’ve been reading as well, it seems like he was a perfectly nice husband. Doesn’t appear to have been horrid to his wife so I was wrong about that.
Click to expand...

Seems like serial killer stuff for sure - another cop, 'Golden State Killer' Joseph DeAngelo in California, killed at least 13 people and raped more than 50 women over 12 years, his wife and children apparently had no idea and he wasn't arrested until he was tracked down through DNA more than 30 years after the crimes. I think it's very likely that Couzens would have gone on to kill again and again if he hadn't been caught.
 
Numbers said:
I've been thinking about this overnight and speaking with my wife, as we have done loads of times - about why I personally was so violent and why/when it stopped.

Things happened when I was young which I later accepted made me very angry to begin, juxtapose that with a very tough boys only school where it was a toxic environment where you had to earn your stripes so to speak, violence was pretty much part of the fabric of the school and town I lived in on a daily basis, including boys against boys, teachers against boys, boys against teachers, corporal punishment, it was just violent. I embraced that wholeheartedly and loved, absolutely loved fighting, I was never a bully but was proud of being tough/tasty. I'd wear black eyes or busted eye sockets, broken noses/jaws like a badge of honour.

I wince to my very core now when I think back on it.

But what made me stop was 2 incidents.

Before my wife and I got together something happened to her by the partner of her sisters best friend, she told me about it as we were getting to know one another, and vice versa I told her things. But it made me so angry even tho' I didn't know him, didn't know her when it happened, it was none of my business except for me to show empathy to her. At a wedding I met him, instantly didn't like him but it didn't bother me enough to want to have a word or anything, until that is he made a comment about another woman there, something to the effect of 'I'd giver her one' - I can't remember exactly. Instantly I saw red mist and chinned him, 1% for that comment but 99% for what he had done years before. Long story short it (my actions) REALLY upset my wife (GF at the time), more than I'd ever seen her upset, until....

A couple of weeks later she was coming to visit me in my flat, she used to come up from Croydon to Ealing to stay for the weekend. This particular evening when she came in to my flat she was visibly distressed and told me what had happened, an unsavoury situation with a random bloke. Once again the red mist kicked in and I immediately went to leave my flat to find him but she tried to stop me and I pushed her onto my bed (fwiw it's the only time I've ever been physical with her) and left the flat, I spent an hour looking for this bloke, totally enraged and god knows what I would have done to him if I had of caught up with him. When I got back she was in tears and still badly shook up - I had left her there on her own in that state when I really should have stayed with her.

It was at that point I changed, it took a long time more to naturally not react, for years after I had to bite my lip/hold my temper in situations. I'm not saying there wasn't any more violence but it was only in situations where I was started on, or attempted robberies on me, that kind of thing.

It took a long time to go from loving violence which was bred into me from early to loathing it through self analysis and the love of my wife.

Bit of an irrelevant post, soz, just been thinking about it because this thread is an eye opener in many ways.
Click to expand...
Numbers, thanks for posting this. I wish more men would reflect on things as thoughtfully as you have. (And it's completely relevant to this thread IMO :).)
 
Had a day to think about this and still don't have the words for it, really.

All I can say is RIP Sarah. I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm sorry that men are so fucked up. I'm sorry the Met are such an awful organisation who still don't fucking get it. Fucking hell.

RIP Sarah.
 
existentialist said:
I note that the judge dismissed the significance of the claims of depression in fairly short order, too.
Click to expand...
It was never going to come close to mitigation for what he'd done. A member of the public impulsively shoplifting a bottle of wine - maybe. But a copper planning and executing an horrific kidnap, rape, and murder!
 
killer b said:
the assistant commissioner quoted here seems to get it, fwiw

www.theguardian.com

Sarah Everard’s killer might have been identified as threat sooner, police admit

Details of indecent exposure claims emerge as ex-Met officer Wayne Couzens is given whole-life sentence
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
Stephen House was one of the either cognisant, incompetent or negligent senior officers referenced in the IPT judgment yesterday. He was the point man for the Met's strategy of withholding evidence from Kate Wilson in her pursuit of holding to account police sexual predators who preyed upon women activists whilst undercover.
 
DaveCinzano said:
Stephen House was one of the either cognisant, incompetent or negligent senior officers referenced in the IPT judgment yesterday. He was the point man for the Met's strategy of withholding evidence from Kate Wilson in her pursuit of holding to account police sexual predators who preyed upon women activists whilst undercover.
Click to expand...
ah. there we are then.
 
Either the vetting service is utterly fucked or the met don’t take any notice of the outcome and just go for big macho wankers with size 12 boots irrespective. Plenty of red flags there from ropy behaviour, cash flow questions to previous employment reports.
 
Chilli.s said:
Whilst I can't stand CD she is a woman in charge of men. Instead of being a safe pair of hands and facilitating the closing of ranks this time she needs to act. And act quickly and visibly.

Failure to do anything of meaning will make her incompetence outweigh her usefulness
Click to expand...
The sad truth is that she had already facilitated the closing of ranks and failure to do anything meaningful in this case, and she owes her position at the top of the Met to another closing of ranks and failure to do anything meaningful in the case of the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes.

In the end, this is a problem which goes far beyond the responsibility of the current Commissioner of the Met Police, and wouldn't be meaningfully addressed by them resigning, understandable though calls for them to resign are.

The Met and other police forces are not just institutionally racist and misogynistic, they're institutional corrupt and incapable of reforming themselves to address that corruption.
 
Numbers said:
I've been thinking about this overnight and speaking with my wife, as we have done loads of times - about why I personally was so violent and why/when it stopped.

Things happened when I was young which I later accepted made me very angry to begin, juxtapose that with a very tough boys only school where it was a toxic environment where you had to earn your stripes so to speak, violence was pretty much part of the fabric of the school and town I lived in on a daily basis, including boys against boys, teachers against boys, boys against teachers, corporal punishment, it was just violent. I embraced that wholeheartedly and loved, absolutely loved fighting, I was never a bully but was proud of being tough/tasty. I'd wear black eyes or busted eye sockets, broken noses/jaws like a badge of honour.

I wince to my very core now when I think back on it.

But what made me stop was 2 incidents.

Before my wife and I got together something happened to her by the partner of her sisters best friend, she told me about it as we were getting to know one another, and vice versa I told her things. But it made me so angry even tho' I didn't know him, didn't know her when it happened, it was none of my business except for me to show empathy to her. At a wedding I met him, instantly didn't like him but it didn't bother me enough to want to have a word or anything, until that is he made a comment about another woman there, something to the effect of 'I'd giver her one' - I can't remember exactly. Instantly I saw red mist and chinned him, 1% for that comment but 99% for what he had done years before. Long story short it (my actions) REALLY upset my wife (GF at the time), more than I'd ever seen her upset, until....

A couple of weeks later she was coming to visit me in my flat, she used to come up from Croydon to Ealing to stay for the weekend. This particular evening when she came in to my flat she was visibly distressed and told me what had happened, an unsavoury situation with a random bloke. Once again the red mist kicked in and I immediately went to leave my flat to find him but she tried to stop me and I pushed her onto my bed (fwiw it's the only time I've ever been physical with her) and left the flat, I spent an hour looking for this bloke, totally enraged and god knows what I would have done to him if I had of caught up with him. When I got back she was in tears and still badly shook up - I had left her there on her own in that state when I really should have stayed with her.

It was at that point I changed, it took a long time more to naturally not react, for years after I had to bite my lip/hold my temper in situations. I'm not saying there wasn't any more violence but it was only in situations where I was started on, or attempted robberies on me, that kind of thing.

It took a long time to go from loving violence which was bred into me from early to loathing it through self analysis and the love of my wife.

Bit of an irrelevant post, soz, just been thinking about it because this thread is an eye opener in many ways.
Click to expand...
Not an irrelevant post, IMO, but a very brave and honest one.
 
xenon said:
Dear women , we're sorry we have some rapists, misogynists and other assorted scumbags working for us. AKA baddons. If you think one of these may be trying to harm you on the pretext of Police work, please, erm... Shout at a bus or something. Or yes, challenge them for ID and ask about their authority. Thanks.
Click to expand...
i know, unreal. talk about blame the fucking victim!
 
Athos said:
Weeks in the planning (at least); the judge referred to a number of otherwise unexplained trips to London.

You can almost understand (though obviously not excuse) how a man who is mentally ill fails to control a sexual urge, then panics and kills his victim. But for someone apparantly normal and self-possessed to plan and carry this out seems so utterly beyond the pale.
Click to expand...
This is how psychopaths and disturbed serial killers are.
 
Yossarian said:
Seems like serial killer stuff for sure - another cop, 'Golden State Killer' Joseph DeAngelo in California, killed at least 13 people and raped more than 50 women over 12 years, his wife and children apparently had no idea and he wasn't arrested until he was tracked down through DNA more than 30 years after the crimes. I think it's very likely that Couzens would have gone on to kill again and again if he hadn't been caught.
Click to expand...
Known crimes. It could be higher.
 
equationgirl said:
This is how psychopaths and disturbed serial killers are.
Click to expand...
Outside the movies, I think psychopathy typically involves the opposite - poor impulse control and planning. More spur of the moment (even those who kill more than once) than weeks in the planning.
 
Athos said:
Outside the movies, I think psychopathy typically involves the opposite - poor impulse control and planning. More spur of the moment (even those who kill more than once) than weeks in the planning.
Click to expand...
No, pyschopaths are often incredibly meticulous and "together"
 
Athos said:
Weeks in the planning (at least); the judge referred to a number of otherwise unexplained trips to London.

You can almost understand (though obviously not excuse) how a man who is mentally ill fails to control a sexual urge, then panics and kills his victim. But for someone apparantly normal and self-possessed to plan and carry this out seems so utterly beyond the pale.
Click to expand...
He was ‘apparently normal’ and was nicknamed The Rapist by his colleagues. I’m not arguing with you, just saying.
 
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