RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021
- Thread starter trashpony
- Start date
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
It's not their presence that's the issue, it's their actions. Whatever they're called.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
You make them sound like they're just a bunch of coppers there to keep a bit of order, they're scum. Shouldn't have even been deployed on Saturday.
Then your assumption of how I make them sound is incorrect.
Been in the wrong place at the wrong time myself with them and their German Shepherds.
Hope that's clear
Ms Ordinary
randompointlesschemistry
To be honest, if I saw those vans parked in central London on a Saturday in summer when those anti-lockdown marches were happening every week, I'd not have thought much of it. I am fairly used to seeing vans full of police on standby near protests.
But it really spooked me, having seen what was happening around the bandstand, & seeing them all stood there empty except for the drivers.
But it really spooked me, having seen what was happening around the bandstand, & seeing them all stood there empty except for the drivers.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. Yes, had some run-ins!
Athos
Well-Known Member
Very droll. But that's not what happened.
Like it or not, yesterday's action was pretty much the dictionary definition of the word 'defiance'.
That word makes some people feel one way, and me feel another. But, telling someone you feel differently about something isn't telling someone how they should have felt.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I've been looking at what Sisters Uncut have been saying. After Reclaim the Streets did not get anywhere with the Met it was left to group like Sisters Uncut to pick up the baton. They have been in forefront of the demo at Parliament Square. I'm not going to criticise Reclaim the Streets. Two local Labour Cllrs were part of it. Labour Party aren't keen on being seen to go against police. So its left to "far" left to go forward.
Following up on Ms Ordinary saying its a male dominated institution Sisters Uncut argue its institutionally violent against women. This article from few years back they link to in their response shows police officers are less likely to be done for violence against women.
www.independent.co.uk
Given what is coming out over Everard case its looks like this should also mean a hard look at the Met itself.
Sisters Uncut: Our Response to Boris’ Statement: No More Police Powers
Following up on Ms Ordinary saying its a male dominated institution Sisters Uncut argue its institutionally violent against women. This article from few years back they link to in their response shows police officers are less likely to be done for violence against women.
Met Police ‘let hundreds of officers accused of sex attacks escape sanction’
Exclusive: Figures obtained by The Independent show only one in every 18 members of the Met accused of sexual assault are subject to formal action
www.independent.co.uk
Given what is coming out over Everard case its looks like this should also mean a hard look at the Met itself.
Sisters Uncut: Our Response to Boris’ Statement: No More Police Powers
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
You don’t always have to prove how right you are though. You share that with PM. It’s almost pathological
Treacle Toes
Time
Met officer involved in Sarah Everard search referred to IOPC for sharing ‘inappropriate graphic’
It did not contain images of Ms Everard or any material obtained from or related to investigation, force says
www.independent.co.uk
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
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Treacle Toes
Time
PC guarding site where Sarah's body was found 'sent vile WhatsApp about death'
A PC has been taken off front-line duties after 'sending a WhatsApp about Sarah Everard's death' while guarding the site where her body was found.
Athos
Well-Known Member
That's probably a fair criticism. Point taken.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
"All cops are bastards" - Priti Patel
It was the ACAB sign wot dunnit.
www.theguardian.com
It was the ACAB sign wot dunnit.
Priti Patel spoke to Met chief before Sarah Everard vigil broken up
Home secretary agrees vigil was ‘hijacked’ by protesters and that undermining police would fail victims
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Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
So their answer to this was to assault women and ignore women reporting assault on that very night
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I’m too tired to get into this tonight.
But I will say that being told that my decision to go to Clapham on Saturday, something that was not illegal and felt deeply important to me, was defiant felt like being scolded. It felt patronisig. It felt like the people saying it (still saying it on the radio today) have misunderstood what the vigil was about.
I wasnt being defiant. I didn’t go to make a point about my right to gather, or to stand up to the authorities, or to push back against anything. I went because I felt compelled to stand alongside other women, in public, to share grief and to draw strength.
The defiance was the refusal to disperse once the police moved in. It was defiant to gather outside New Scotland Yard last night, and to gather outside Parliament today. Neither of those things would have happened if the vigil had been allowed to find it’s own natural end. And I’m proud of that defiance. We are refusing to be cowed.
I once responded directly (I called him out, I responded in a way he didn’t expect... I “answered back” if you like) to a policeman who made what I felt was an inappropriate comment to me. When i called him out he then said, to my face, “you’re being very uppity”. I reported him. No one rang me back. Being called “defiant” in this instance feels exactly the same as being called ”uppity” did then.
It isn’t defiant to respond to inappropriate words and behaviour. It is simply a response.
Defiant children are scolded for answering back.
I am not a a defiant child answering back, I am a woman responding to a peak event in a culture that doesn’t adequately protect women from male violence.
If a bloke says or does something aggressive or transmissive to another bloke, would you consider it “defiance” when he deflects that aggression, calls it out?
Part of the definition of defiance is disobedience. What was I supposed to be obeying? How was I being disobedient?
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
You're forgetting that some people were holding up signs with letters on them. A clear incitement to violence if ever I saw one.
DietCokeGirl
Fishing in the rivers of life
Didnt really do much to dispell the rumour that all coppers are alleged to be bastards, did they.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
i can't speak for what anyone else might or might not have meant, but i've just looked it up in my dictionary (my ILEA primary school leaving gift from 1981) includes 'bold resistance' as one of the definitions of 'defiance'
how about settling for that instead?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Actually Athos this has really annoyed me.
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow that there may have been some misunderstanding going on: maybe you were talking about the protests while I was talking going to the vigil.
But also, I must tell you that you telling me I didnt really know what I was talking about has really fucking annoyed me.
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow that there may have been some misunderstanding going on: maybe you were talking about the protests while I was talking going to the vigil.
But also, I must tell you that you telling me I didnt really know what I was talking about has really fucking annoyed me.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
And now I’m being told “here’s a nice little compromise for you”
Do I get a pat on the head with this?
I wasn’t being resistant, was I, ffs.
What was I resisting?
I was quietly standing alongside other women who felt the same way.
I was on open land, not breaking any laws. What was I resisting?
Is it “bold” for me to make up my own mind and act on my own cognisance?
Is it “resistance” to want to stand alongside other women when we are experiencing something raw together? Something which - increasingly demonstrably - is beyond men’s capacity to really understand?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The terror continues after lockdown
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
That seems so weird.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
if the system wants women to keep quiet and put up with all this shit, then simply standing up and being (figuratively speaking) counted is arguably resisting that, and i see that as a positive and worthwhile thing, and i was attempting (quite possibly not very well) to express that, not intending to criticise you (or any of the other people who turned out) in any way at all.
i'm sorry if i haven't managed it. would it be more constructive to the thread for me to go back and edit out?
kittyP
Pluviophile
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
There’s a danger that we’re just going to get into semantics here.
How can I resist the house I’m living inside?
Look, I don’t want men to think “Oops, I put my foot in it” and edit what they say.
I want men to think about what they’re saying, how it impacts on us, how the subtle meaning upholds the status quo, stenghtens it, progresses it.
We’re not going to dismantle the patriarchy by just acting different. We - you, me us - we need to be different,
I may be the only person - only women - who didnt like being told attending the vigil was “defiant”. I just made a post about how that landed for me.
But I think maybe this exchange indicates thatt men and women perceive /experience the patriarchy quite differently.
Dunno. I’m so tired, I shouldn’t be posting really.
No, don’t edit it Puddy_Tat .
I don’t feel criticised by your post, but it did feel patronising even though I know you didn’t mean it like that.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
This has been really pissing me off today. Listening to Radio London, the fallacy of women agitating and the police responding was being enlarged all day. I know it’s par for the course, but this was a vigil for a murdered women, with the suspect being a fucking copper. Shameless, and shameful.
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
I did go to be defiant
I went because it was important for me to stand with other women at the end of a difficult week
I went support sisters uncut who stood their ground and took on the mantle after reclaim these streets stood down
I went to support all our rights to be out at night with censor and judgement
I don't know the deceased woman, but I know she had a right to out at night and I was standing with her in that way
I wasnt sad, I was angry
And I was even angrier when the police were heavy handed and mishandled things so badly
Women shouting at police who interrupted an emotional gathering were no threat to public order and did not need to be treated as a threat. Coppers running about and shoving people as if there was imminent danger showed their true colours
Women calling that out was right
We don't have to stay demure and downcast to have legitimacy
I went because it was important for me to stand with other women at the end of a difficult week
I went support sisters uncut who stood their ground and took on the mantle after reclaim these streets stood down
I went to support all our rights to be out at night with censor and judgement
I don't know the deceased woman, but I know she had a right to out at night and I was standing with her in that way
I wasnt sad, I was angry
And I was even angrier when the police were heavy handed and mishandled things so badly
Women shouting at police who interrupted an emotional gathering were no threat to public order and did not need to be treated as a threat. Coppers running about and shoving people as if there was imminent danger showed their true colours
Women calling that out was right
We don't have to stay demure and downcast to have legitimacy
ash
Inittogether
I totally agree.
We were very close to the bandstand only 2 or 3 rows of people in front of us.
Reflecting back and looking at the footage I’m sure at least one woman was removed whilst we were there. After the cops marched in on mass I saw about 6 coppers moving away from the bandstand and said to E - I think they’re removing someone.
There was absolutely no aggro then apart from arrest your own, no justice no peace, fuck the police- which was all very tame. We were very close and I didn’t hear anyone tell female officers ‘ it should have been them’ as has been reported.
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
I followed someone being arrested because I wanted to observe and its rough when 10 police surround you and drag you away
People shouted shame, pigs, scum....I didn't hear anyone shout about rape at that time or during another arrest when the police were pushing and kicking and shouting as well
There was a lot of shouting and anger from the crowd
I imagine not all the police thought it was the right strategy and it was likely quite shameful to hear cries of 'shame' 'arrest your own'
The police were under a type of psychic attack because there was an entire crowd United in condemning them loudly and silently with good reason
Part of the reason we were there was because of police errors, aggression, violence, misdemeanor...no wonder they couldn't let it pass without disruption
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