Regional anti-cuts organising
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
Yeah we'll be there, just doing a local thing on the 8th. Not everyone can make it on the 9th, sixth formers especially.
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
Why the separate demos?
Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
The demo on the 9th is a definite priority, just having another option for those that can't make the trip, and also as a way to build momentum for the following day. It's not a competing demo just complementing the other. Sixth formers have made up the bulk of our last two demos on the 24th and 30th, it would be a shame if we didn't include those who can't make it to london on the 9th because their parents wont let them etc.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I just read through all the resource pages - it's excellent, really excellent. A good simple but comprehensive guide to the issues, with plenty of data presented in a very digestible form, followed up up quotes from expert economists and links to the sources, and then links to the many detailed alternative approaches which have been published by others.
Can't see anything dodgy in there at all. It's a brilliant resource underpinning anticuts activism. Great find.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
Tomorrow Reading activists will be targetting Tax Avoiders. For more info PM me. We are also going all out for a local action on Wednesday and heading to London on Thursday. PM me for info.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I had a very frustrating conversation with a union steward at the Camden demonstration the other day. He, like a few in what we might call the 'old left', is still convinced the Labour Party will save them. I don't know what to say to these people - if fifteen years of evidence isn't enough then what would be? Would they have to watch their politicians raping babies in front of them before they give up on them?
The problem is not faith in Labour, but a lack of realistic alternatives.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
The problem is waiting for the largely self-appointed leaders to lead instead of dragging them kicking and screaming in the right direction. Not a mistake the current generation of protesters are making.
The dinosaurs are irrelevant. They'll work it out, eventually.
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
One thing I have noticed is, with thd exceptions of McDonnell & Corbyn, there has been a complete absence of mainstream party political opposition from the Labour leadership on the cuts issue.
It's as if the anti-cuts movement has bypassed both Labour & the far left - & making it hard for the mainstream media to identify leaders...because there are none!
It's as if the anti-cuts movement has bypassed both Labour & the far left - & making it hard for the mainstream media to identify leaders...because there are none!
love detective
there's no love too small
One of the labour councillors (Mike Harris) from Lewisham who happily voted for the cuts package last Monday said the following day:-
what I've learnt from last night: Labour locally need to be much clearer about our opposition to central govt cuts
words fail...
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
TUC-organised demo in Hanley (Stoke-on-Trent) today. Approx. 100 there, 12 speakers 
The police are usually slow off the mark for protests/demos in Stoke, but they've thrown up every conceivable barrier to try to stop this one today.
The police are usually slow off the mark for protests/demos in Stoke, but they've thrown up every conceivable barrier to try to stop this one today.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Re the Labour party - absolutely. Nothing - not a peep - not even from many left members or even any apparently 'left' labour councillors.
But the 'far left' - you mean those outside labour? - I think you will find they have been central to much of the organising and campaigning work going on. Or course there is no one group of leaders - what did you expect?
dennisr
the acceptable face
12 speakers
dennisr
the acceptable face
Absolutely - which has many future dangers
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Serious question - if the best TUSC could manage was an average 1% when Labour had been in for 3 terms and we'd just seen the MPs expenses stuff - what makes you think that it will be possible to build an electoral alternative to Labour in the short term when a Labour vote is seen as the only way of punishing the 2 coalition parties - and a vote for smaller parties will be seen as splitting the anti-coalition vote?
Auto-Labourism is here to stay in the short term, at least in electoral terms - the question is what kind pressures can be put on Labour to shift them to the left and what kind of alliances can be built to make a medium-long term shift from Labourism possible.
Auto-Labourism is here to stay in the short term, at least in electoral terms - the question is what kind pressures can be put on Labour to shift them to the left and what kind of alliances can be built to make a medium-long term shift from Labourism possible.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Most people aren't going to be waiting for a leadership to lead them - they're telling the leaders which way they'd better be headed if they expect to hang onto their jobs. That's the only political power most of us have, and that's true under just about any political system imaginable, no matter how idealistic the initial premise. It doesn't matter which bums are in which seats - what matters is the lines they dare not cross. Drawing those lines is up to the rest of us.
dennisr
the acceptable face
In the short term what ymu says above stands - the course of this movement - how it generalises (if it generalises... if and when workers take up what students have started and the extent to which they break from their own leaderships where these leaderships are holding them back) is the most immediate preasure that can be bought to bear on all politicians. The nature of this movement itself - and it potential development - dictates what would be possible on the electoral plane.
Longer term - yes, I agree the 'auto-labourism' vote still exists but (and both of us can only speculate and guess here...) I don't think it has the same hold it once did. The past TUSC vote is almost irrelevant to what can happen. It was a tiny, almost invisible and very fresh grouping that had not even begun to 'flesh out' at that point - a limited marker, significent only in the folk becoming involved in it - and it was squeezed (just like the hard right) by an 'anti-tory' vote as much as an 'auto-labour' vote.
I guess we could argue over how much those two things cross over - but the electoral trend has been away from all mainstream political parties - the not voting or "anti-" voting is significent as well. The last election was the first time non-voters outnumbered voters wasn't it? (not sure - this is a query...)
You only have to look at how the establishment votes seem to have collapsed in Ireland in the very recent period - this opens up huge possibilities for the first time in decades (literally in the case of the Republic - and the important role of our inital limited successes with Joe Higgins, as a bridgehead, will begin to stand out now as we are able to really use that propaganda position we have won). This is a point where rapid changes in the outlook of ordinary folk can occur - as the real world impinges upon them as much as folk would prefer to get on with their lives and hope it will all go away
There seems to be two ways, put forward by the 'left' to play the labour vote - one says try and ally with labour in a joint anti-tory-cuts platform (that is what the swappies seem to be advocating at the moment). This has serious dangers in that it seems to result in providing platforms for some of the very people who are voting through cuts (for example the labour councillors in lewisham).
The other says, there is no short-cut to building a left electoral alternative - setback though that has been on a number of occasions. The SP always said that was going to be complicated and that any real development was less likely to come through 'juggling leftie chairs on the titanic' - coalition of left groupings and more likely to come through genuine movements. We have that genuine movement NOW - that is what is developing (alongside a movement to the left in major trade unions following the smaller but more vocal ones like the RMT and the FBU). That movement is going to be searching for a way to break the establishment consensous - Socialists should be arguing for a coalition of all those forces opposed to all cuts (a new poll tax - can't pay, won't pay - better to break the law than break the poor - One difference I guess being the very recent experience of 13 years of new labour in power). Unity - real unity - linking the various struggles and their common problem together. This is the most significent development/sea-change on past attempts at building an alternative to establishment politics (I would argue it is qualitively different even to the more limited and, sadly, eventually strangled potential that came through the anti-war movement in the form of Respect). I am not even saying it could replace Labour - certainly not initially - but it puts immense preasure on labour (in particular...) along with all the other establishment parties. Their previous stranglehold over the core 'working class' vote has got to be challenged.
Now 'autonomists' can poo poo this but I'd argue that - eventually - an alternative will be needed to help break with the 'alternative' of folk voting labour (for want of better) on the backs of all the hard work in progress at the moment (and from this the potential for the hard right to grow). That alternative is not calling for a 'leftie' party or a 'trade union' party (not even a 'TUSC' party - I hope it could play its part and I think socialist ideas are likely to be part of that organisation). It is likely to be the result of a genuine coalition of all of the many elements that will come out of this movement - anti-cuts, anti-capitalist, pro-alternatives, environmental trends, pro-real democracy trends.
dennisr
the acceptable face
many thanks - i do barmitzvahs, wedding, funerals - all for a small donation to the 'cause'
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
This is one option. I've also wondered what mileage there might be in putting the energy not into parties at all but into a campaign to decentralise power enough so that the whole issue of 'national' parties becomes not particularly important.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
I guess the crux of the matter is whether Labour will be perceived as just another agent of the cuts agenda, or whether it will seen as attempting to limit at least the scale and intensity of the cuts and their effects on those that can least afford it.
If it's the former then you might be right about an alternative formation being viable. But a mass movement against the cuts (which I agree is top priority over and above the interests of any party) would be capable of dragging Labour further onto the ground of the latter position. Which means they will the natural home of the anti-Coalition vote at the next election, given not only the particular history and union ties but also because of the strategic position it occupies in the electoral space. At that point posturing outside as a token more radical opposition will see you trounced in the stampede to punish the Tories, even if people have a lot of time for what you're saying. If you had a different electoral system in place (which is part of what made it possible for Joe Higgins to get such a platform) things might be different.
I don't think the inclusion or exclusion of local Labour party members should be a point of general principle - it's a matter of local judgement on the basis of positions taken. I'm trying to think through in what ways Labour councillors who are opposed to the cuts could act to resist rather facilitate that agenda - short of going the full Liverpool route which is less possible now anway not only because of the risk of surcharge/bankruptcy/imprisonment but also because of powers that central government has to intervene more quickly to determiene council tax levels centrally. What concrete and realistic demands is it possible to make of sympathetic Labour councillors (i make no claim about how large this group is)?
If it's the former then you might be right about an alternative formation being viable. But a mass movement against the cuts (which I agree is top priority over and above the interests of any party) would be capable of dragging Labour further onto the ground of the latter position. Which means they will the natural home of the anti-Coalition vote at the next election, given not only the particular history and union ties but also because of the strategic position it occupies in the electoral space. At that point posturing outside as a token more radical opposition will see you trounced in the stampede to punish the Tories, even if people have a lot of time for what you're saying. If you had a different electoral system in place (which is part of what made it possible for Joe Higgins to get such a platform) things might be different.
I don't think the inclusion or exclusion of local Labour party members should be a point of general principle - it's a matter of local judgement on the basis of positions taken. I'm trying to think through in what ways Labour councillors who are opposed to the cuts could act to resist rather facilitate that agenda - short of going the full Liverpool route which is less possible now anway not only because of the risk of surcharge/bankruptcy/imprisonment but also because of powers that central government has to intervene more quickly to determiene council tax levels centrally. What concrete and realistic demands is it possible to make of sympathetic Labour councillors (i make no claim about how large this group is)?
dennisr
the acceptable face
Of course - I agree. So does the SP. The swaps have been trying to distort our view on this which is a pretty desperate thing to do on their part after coming under fire for the crass position they are taking.
We've been pushing both the record/previous experience:
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/10141
And how to fight - using council positions:
"No excuses for not fighting cuts"
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/10371/06-10-2010/no-excuses-for-not-fighting-cuts
I copied and pasted this bit for speed:
The penalty of surcharging no longer applies to Councillors except in the case of misappropriation of public funds. In fact the Liverpool councillors were not surcharged for setting a needs budget. They were surcharged for interest on money that was lost for refusing to set a rate. The Liverpool council only agreed to the no rate policy to maintain a united front with other rebel Labour councils at the time even though all of them except Lambeth capitulated in the end.
Council finance officers can challenge a budget they believe to be ‘knowingly unbalanced’, in other words, a planned deficit - which a ‘needs budget’ without massive council tax rises would be - but they can only question an individual council’s ability to meet short-term debt re-payments. The use of reserves to meet such initial debt re-payments, for example, is legally a ‘matter of judgement’ for councillors to make. Councillors have a choice.
If people want to find out how to build a real strategy to resist the cuts at a local level, about the real choices councils have not to implement the cuts then read this article: http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/is...hes-its-campaign-for-the-2011-local-elections
Councils do have a choice. Defy the Con-Dems, set a needs budget and build a mass campaign to win back the money stolen from local services by the Con-Dems. If the Labour Party councilors don’t have the stomach for a fight with the Tories they should step aside and allow genuine anti-cuts campaigners to run.
dennisr
the acceptable face
I think it is essential that this mass movement does not get derailed into some purely electoral campaign - Having said that neither of us need to worry - it is unlikely to be anyway. At the same time we have to recognise that there will be a demand for an alternative within the limits of this system in the medium term and it can play a role as a useful adjunct to that extra-parlimentary movement on the ground - therefore part of any movement to decentralise which would come out of the opposition on the ground by its very nature.
dennisr
the acceptable face
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
It seems the swaps are being less critical of Labour positions than members of the Labour party!!
Found that article very interesting (and there are some ideas there that can definitely be taken up). I think we are a long way from a Liverpool scenario, and I suspect this account underestimates the capacity for central government to effectively put renegade councils into "special measures". Certainly any Labour group pursuing this scenario is likely to find itself suspended from the party in pretty short order, so it's not something that would happen in advance of massive public support - basically, it's a demand that is too far ahead of the movement because the context is so different (in terms of Labour party democracy, level of industrial struggle, scale of the organised left, etc.)
Unison Scotland Takes a Lead
Below is a report from yesterday's important meeting for Unison Scotland.
Scottish Council 4 December 2010
At last there are signs of some movement in Unison. They are finally beginning to seriously challenge the crises affecting public and private sector workers. At Unison Scottish Council on Saturday 4th December two significant motions were passed.
The first motion called for a Scottish one day public sector strike in the New Year and was surprisingly supported by Scottish Council. Senior officials will now liaise with other public sector unions to co-ordinate strike action, though Tory anti-trade union laws may hamper these efforts.
The demonstration in Edinburgh on October 23rd which saw over 20,000 people marching has sparked Scottish Unison’s shift in approach. The strike action will be the next step in advance of the national protest in London on 26 March 2011. The Scottish TUC are also discussing a Jarrow style march from Edinburgh down to London to join this demonstration.
Unison General Secretary Dave Prentis was at the meeting and speakers pressed him to use the March 26 demonstration as a springboard for a UK wide General Strike.
A motion calling for Councillors around the country to pass a ‘needs’ budget based on what is necessary to protect services at their current levels was also passed. This was not supported by the Scottish Council but was passed by delegates, despite asking councillors to act illegally.
Below is a report from yesterday's important meeting for Unison Scotland.
Scottish Council 4 December 2010
At last there are signs of some movement in Unison. They are finally beginning to seriously challenge the crises affecting public and private sector workers. At Unison Scottish Council on Saturday 4th December two significant motions were passed.
The first motion called for a Scottish one day public sector strike in the New Year and was surprisingly supported by Scottish Council. Senior officials will now liaise with other public sector unions to co-ordinate strike action, though Tory anti-trade union laws may hamper these efforts.
The demonstration in Edinburgh on October 23rd which saw over 20,000 people marching has sparked Scottish Unison’s shift in approach. The strike action will be the next step in advance of the national protest in London on 26 March 2011. The Scottish TUC are also discussing a Jarrow style march from Edinburgh down to London to join this demonstration.
Unison General Secretary Dave Prentis was at the meeting and speakers pressed him to use the March 26 demonstration as a springboard for a UK wide General Strike.
A motion calling for Councillors around the country to pass a ‘needs’ budget based on what is necessary to protect services at their current levels was also passed. This was not supported by the Scottish Council but was passed by delegates, despite asking councillors to act illegally.
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
I quite like this video from UCL
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