Proper Tidy
Arsed
No, and tbh I don't imagine much will happen here. If it did kick off though, then it would be connected to anti-cuts campaigning, in media coverage etc.
Regional anti-cuts organising
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
No, and tbh I don't imagine much will happen here. If it did kick off though, then it would be connected to anti-cuts campaigning, in media coverage etc.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
These cuts will hurt a huge number of people, including (probably) those who voted for the parties in the current coalition. To make campaigns like we see on this thread, we need to draw in as many of those adversely affected as possible, given that we have the most powerful means of appeal possible - a direct call to their wallets.
And that includes all those who aren't naturally in the same camp as the people in this thread, all those who think TUers are wreckers, and definitely all those who would be horrified by the site of a rioting mob at the Tories' conference. In this struggle, they, too, are our natural allies.
This just presents "nice", telegenic, reasonable-sounding (to them) Disco Dave and his even more clean cut LD glovepupet Clegg with a golden propaganda opportunity - and drives the nation's middle ground out of our arms. With them, we are much, much stronger. An alliance of the unemployes isn't enough, on its' own.
Of course, but if we're to argue against people who want to riot, rioting then by the same logic we should be arguing against public sector and other strikes?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
you might have a point there. I think a strike would be -if accompanied by a strong enough propaganda campaign - a little easier to sell to the people than what would simply be seen as hooliganism, especially if integrated into an overall, rolling grassrots campaign of the sort outlined by the 39th step and others. a riot just loks like thuggery and hooliganism.
don't be so sure, there's a lot of people out there who'd fucking love to see a bit of genuine anger and spikiness on the streets
in fact I'm not entirely sure why it would alienate anyone, people aren't going to say look at those pesky kids fighting to save my pension
when people's ability to economically survive is under threat the rules change considerably
in fact I'm not entirely sure why it would alienate anyone, people aren't going to say look at those pesky kids fighting to save my pension
when people's ability to economically survive is under threat the rules change considerably
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Aye, this does happen. Do you really think the British public, broadly speaking, is anywhere close to that yet though?
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
Top post. Being a 'critical friend' doesn't mean pointing out to someone what they've done wrong. It means praising them for what they have done, even if it is limited in it's effectiveness, (and i'd argue that the RTW demo is useful even if it won't stop the cuts, morale etc) because lets face it even if it's only going on a demo it's far more then a significant majority of the general public has done at this point, and then trying to win them round to local organising.
You CAN do both. It's only ONE DAY ffs.
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
If people are genuinely against the cuts and worrie about them, they wouldn't be put off by a riot, which is unlikely anyway. I'd expect most to say, I don't agree with the riots/ they're hooligans etc, but I also don't agree with the cuts, and joe bloggs down the road is campaigning against them and he's nice and local. Did the poll tax riot turn many off the campaign completely? Genuine question, I'm too young to know.
It's not really quantifiable yet, but we've all heard people who generally aren't politically active say they wish we were more like the french in this country, and allude to barricades, riots, and sheep burning.
Of course turning that into a concrete reality is a long and complex task, and will be the result of hard slog building grass roots community and workplace anchored networks not against the cuts but for a progressive alternative, and it won't come about through breaking a few windows at the Tory conference, but nor will it be set back by that.
The London Transport region of the RMT has called a march from Unity House 39 Chalton Street NW1 1JD on Saturday 23rd October 2010 assembling at 11:00 am to support the TUC Anti Cuts meeting at Congress House on Tottenham Court Road.
This march is being supported by the Fire Brigade Union, the Civil Service Union the Teachers Union and several others . Please do your best to attend to fight the vicious CON- DEM cuts of between 25 and 40 percent to jobs and public services. We need hundreds of RMT members there to show that we will not pay with our jobs for the bankers crisis whilst the culprits reward themselves with huge bonuses.
Unfortunate clash...
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
I mostly agree with the strategy being put forward by 39thstep and others. I take what you say about it only being one day but the reality is often different. Knowing the SWP (and RTW is to all intents and purposes an SWP front), this won't be one day but a strategy of just one demo after another, like the the STW movement, and the local grass roots campaigning will be secondary to this.
At a local level where I am the SWP have gone as far as setting up a second anti-cuts organisation even though local trade unions and community groups have already established one and have had some successes in campaigning against cuts even at this early stage. I'm not against national demos by any means but they can't be used as a substitute for the hard graft that is needed to build up local community and trade union campaigns. While I have some concerns about it the Coalition of the Resistance seems more positive from that point of view as they are saying get on with it at a local level and then affiliate to a national network.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
where i am, one or two swappies turned up to our local anti-cuts group. as long as they dont try and take it over i dont have a problem with it tbh, we need to get people on board rather than having to compete with competing organisations - unity is what we need at this time. the majority of people at the meeting were sort of centre-left/green types, we can work alongside them imo and it's important we get as broad based support for the campaign as possible.
i dont know much about colation of resistance onestopshop - i've heard of it though, what are your concerns?
i dont know much about colation of resistance onestopshop - i've heard of it though, what are your concerns?
Sunderland Public Services Alliance distributed 2000 anti cuts leaflets outside the Sunderland Arsenal game this afternoon, to a generally receptive crowd.
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
Where I am the SWP have not set up a RTW group, they are involved in the locally set up group, and this demo is just something people from the local group can go on nationally. As someone who is still what you might call a fellow traveller of the SWP, I'd say any RTW group set up where there is already an anti cuts group (unless it is specifically targetted at organising the unemployed with the local anti cuts group, which I don't think is the way RTW is heading) they're acting in a sectarian manner, and should be pulled up for it by the party nationally. The event I went to yesterday was actually very refreshing in that there was little sectarianism, Labour Party members were actually genuinely asking SWP members why they hadn't tried to sell them a paper yet because they wanted to buy one.
One stop shop, where are you based?
One stop shop, where are you based?
the button
out on the kocker
"Assembling at 11:00" is hardly a clash for your average bookfair attendee.
I was actually meaning the opposite and hoping that anarchists will turn up mob handed and join the march.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
frogwoman to be honest what I've seen of CoR seems quite good so far, I'm just worried that it will be the usual great and the good preaching to people, but to be fair they don't seem to be trying to brand everything and take over local campaigns. We will need a national network and this seems the best so far.
grogwilton I'm in Lambeth. The SWP first tried to use RTW (despite Save our Services already being there) and when that didn't work just built a meeting called Lambeth Against the Cuts. This had no planning meetings and no way you could get involved (other than turn up) and was built months after Save our Services was launched by the local trade unions and community groups with all the SOS meetings being open to anyone. They now seem to switch between saying this was just a one off meeting and then saying it is a campaign. They are basically keeping it there in order to use it as a potential front group while doing very little to build Save our Services. It's total sectarianism in the real sense of the word. I get the sense that some of the local SWP trade unionists are uncomfortable at what is going on but the full timers and more zealot like members are pushing to have two campaigns at the same time in order that they can have their own contact lists, control etc
grogwilton I'm in Lambeth. The SWP first tried to use RTW (despite Save our Services already being there) and when that didn't work just built a meeting called Lambeth Against the Cuts. This had no planning meetings and no way you could get involved (other than turn up) and was built months after Save our Services was launched by the local trade unions and community groups with all the SOS meetings being open to anyone. They now seem to switch between saying this was just a one off meeting and then saying it is a campaign. They are basically keeping it there in order to use it as a potential front group while doing very little to build Save our Services. It's total sectarianism in the real sense of the word. I get the sense that some of the local SWP trade unionists are uncomfortable at what is going on but the full timers and more zealot like members are pushing to have two campaigns at the same time in order that they can have their own contact lists, control etc
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Not dissimilar from their takeover of the StWC in Brum.
Froggy, SWPies can be fine as individuals but whatever you do, don't form a committee. It's like bees to honey.
im not involved in the actual running of the campaign, but yeh i take your point. something youve had experience of?? x
Not dissimilar from their takeover of the StWC in Brum.
Froggy, SWPies can be fine as individuals but whatever you do, don't form a committee. It's like bees to honey.
precisely that. Coalition of resistance is set to become the new STWC. They will head up a steering committee at their conference in Nov, appoint the ususal suspects, and this is where the anti-cuts campaign will recieive its official voice - with the various labour left adding a note of consent.
At the moment they have no mandate, no power of authority and certainly no attached local groups, they need to bring all these indpendent local groups popping up all over the place into the fold - or usurp them by starting a regional branch of COR (yes there will be a COR group near you soon).
not saying your wrong, but this can be a very dangerous strategy whereby you end up completely alienating established core support and the wider working class whilst chasing a pat on the head from a middle england that doesn't really exist
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Yes. Bussed in a load of SWPies to pack the committee seats, shut down public meetings as opposed to public declarations. We formed a second StWC group after that, so only saw them on demos - as often when they turned up to try and disrupt/co-opt our demos as just happening to be on the same one.
They tried to move on the school kids' sit-in on Day X* because the police told them to - was fucking brilliant to have several hundred school kids chanting "SWP - we know you - you are worse than the boys in blue!". They prevented people from entering any part of Pebble Mill, including the front garden, on the first demo at the BBC. The second, spontaneous, BBC demo had a small group of us hanging a banner off the front entrance whilst the SWPies held the crowd back with megaphones so we had no fucking hope of getting any further. When we successfully prevented the police from taking our banner down**, a few of the school kids tried to come and join us but only a handful made it past the megaphones.
I loathe and despise them.
*This caused tailbacks from the city centre onto the M6, apparently. No taxis could work that night - but the one we flagged down to get home refused to charge us the fare when he found out what we'd been up to.
**A copper ripped it down and out of our hands, then we told him to go and find the law he said existed that meant we couldn't hang it on BBC property, and he fucked off
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
This started with a poster promoting some national 'direct action' at the Tory party conference in which it was argued that if some kids want to kick it off with the old bill then that's alright maan as they are fighting the cuts sort of gibberish. My argument was that this sort of stunt was no substitute for local action where the cuts were taking place, it then drifted into the issue of national lobbies of conferences.
All I was doing was to advocate that the key to success is action ie strikes, occupations at a local level rather than national lobbies or opportunities for ' kids to kick off with the old bill'. Obviously the relationship between local action and national action and the trade union leadership and rank and file are well documented.
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