Refugee crisis. Something on the scale of the Marshall plan required?

[frogwoman]

Refugee crisis: Where are all these people coming from and why?

Excellent piece by Cockburn who i dont always agree with but this is great

 

[IC3D]

 

[extra dry]

Last couple of days, on facebook anyway, rather distastful views coming from the unexpected sources. How short sighted awful some people can be.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Refugee crisis: Where are all these people coming from and why?

Excellent piece by Cockburn who i dont always agree with but this is great

Some of the comments made me want to vomit.

 

[teqniq]

 

[camouflage]

Figure I'll post this here in addition to the Syria thread because it's one of the few sources I've seen where actual Syrians pipe up on the situation, and she says a few things I'd not even considered before.

 

[Evander]

If the Germans are happy to take half a million immigrants a year ad infinitum then let 'em. I think they must be bonkers, but if they don't care about mosques on every strasse corner, amplified calls to prayer 5 times a day, resentment and natural envy from those who can't find jobs when they see all that prosperity around them but can't afford to share in it, I'm afraid civil unrest will be the result. Likewise other Euro-countries should be free to take in as many as they believe they can comfortably absorb, and Merkel should poke out of it. The trouble is that when politicians realise they've lost control of something, they adopt an 'it's easier to do nothing' stance (much like the EU paraliament is doing actually), and that seems to be the case. So like I say - chickens will be coming home the roost in fairly foreseeable future.

 

[red & green]

If the Germans are happy to take half a million immigrants a year ad infinitum then let 'em. I think they must be bonkers, but if they don't care about mosques on every strasse corner, amplified calls to prayer 5 times a day, resentment and natural envy from those who can't find jobs when they see all that prosperity around them but can't afford to share in it, I'm afraid civil unrest will be the result. Likewise other Euro-countries should be free to take in as many as they believe they can comfortably absorb, and Merkel should poke out of it. The trouble is that when politicians realise they've lost control of something, they adopt an 'it's easier to do nothing' stance (much like the EU paraliament is doing actually), and that seems to be the case. So like I say - chickens will be coming home the roost in fairly foreseeable future.

Don't be ridiculous Germany have a large population of Turkish origin already

 

[teqniq]

They do indeed and do I catch a whiff of xenophobia?

 

[Evander]

Don't be ridiculous Germany have a large population of Turkish origin already

Oh well, a few more millions of foreigners won't make much difference then.

 

[terapija]

If the Germans are happy to take half a million immigrants a year ad infinitum then let 'em. I think they must be bonkers, but if they don't care about mosques on every strasse corner, amplified calls to prayer 5 times a day, resentment and natural envy from those who can't find jobs when they see all that prosperity around them but can't afford to share in it, I'm afraid civil unrest will be the result. Likewise other Euro-countries should be free to take in as many as they believe they can comfortably absorb, and Merkel should poke out of it. The trouble is that when politicians realise they've lost control of something, they adopt an 'it's easier to do nothing' stance (much like the EU paraliament is doing actually), and that seems to be the case. So like I say - chickens will be coming home the roost in fairly foreseeable future.

give us one example of where this has happened before

 

[Evander]

give us one example of where this has happened before

Well for starters we've got quite a few mosques here? I can't prove I'm right in the rest of what you say any more than you can prove I'm wrong.

 

[teqniq]

What is the problem with 'quite a few mosques'? We have quite a few churches too.

 

[Evander]

What is the problem with 'quite a few mosques'? We have quite a few churches too.

Yes, and if I had my way I'd have them all demolished. So much death and misery has been suffered in the name of fucking religion.

 

[teqniq]

Well I can't disagree with you there but as I've said before on here so long as no-one's trying to ram it down my throat people can have as many imaginary friends as they like. The majority of both Christians and Muslims seem to be quite happy to practise their religion without recourse to rabid proselytizing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If the Germans are happy to take half a million immigrants a year ad infinitum then let 'em. I think they must be bonkers, but if they don't care about mosques on every strasse corner, amplified calls to prayer 5 times a day, resentment and natural envy from those who can't find jobs when they see all that prosperity around them but can't afford to share in it, I'm afraid civil unrest will be the result. Likewise other Euro-countries should be free to take in as many as they believe they can comfortably absorb, and Merkel should poke out of it. The trouble is that when politicians realise they've lost control of something, they adopt an 'it's easier to do nothing' stance (much like the EU paraliament is doing actually), and that seems to be the case. So like I say - chickens will be coming home the roost in fairly foreseeable future.

You're more than a little dim, writing such ill-informed crap.
1) Germany has a stable Muslim population (Turkish and North African) of 4-5 million, so integrating Syrian Muslims causes no issues, and certainly doesn't mean the muezzin being heard in every village, or loads of mosques springing up.
2) Germany also has under-population in certain areas (mainly in the east of the country), and will benefit immensely from an influx of skilled and semi-skilled labour and professionals. Sure there'll be "civil unrest", but not on any greater scale than previously, because anyone but blind racists will see the benefits of more doctors, more engineers, more scientists.
3) "Resentment and natural envy" can only gain traction socially when one group is treated favourably compared to others. This hasn't happened in either Germany -former west or former east - except on an individual level, even though media cunts like Springer have tried to stir shit up. Nationalist movements up to and including PEGIDA have tried to mine a reservoir of resentment and envy, and found the reservoir to not hold very much, even during economic crises.

Read some history before gobbing off next time, eh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

give us one example of where this has happened before

I generally stay in Moabit when I'm in Berlin, which while it isn't the most "Turkish" neighbourhood, isn't white city in the way that Char'berg or Potsdam is, either. In the 30 years I've been visiting Berlin on-and-off, I've never yet been bothered by the call to prayer, and yet where I stay in Moabit has a mosque in the next road, and I'm not a heavy sleeper!

I think that Evander is perhaps a little hysterical.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well for starters we've got quite a few mosques here? I can't prove I'm right in the rest of what you say any more than you can prove I'm wrong.

The fact that Germany has had continuous inward migration for 70 years, with very little social unrest generated, and with less experience of racism than say, France, proves that you're wrong and/or a gobshite shouting the odds about something they know little about.

 

[ViolentPanda]

give us one example of where this has happened before

It pretty much hasn't, not even in France or Spain, where anti-Muslim racism is more open and more pervasive than in most Euro-states.

 

[camouflage]

German is a great language to get pissed off in, go all Downfall on the case...

 

[likesfish]

Syrians trying to be refugees arnt batshit fundies those are the ones staying behind

 

[Evander]

The fact that Germany has had continuous inward migration for 70 years, with very little social unrest generated, and with less experience of racism than say, France, proves that you're wrong and/or a gobshite shouting the odds about something they know little about.

That was a trickle, this is a deluge. Nor was extreme Islam on the warpath in those days. Jesus wept am I really having to explain that to you!

 

[Evander]

I generally stay in Moabit when I'm in Berlin, which while it isn't the most "Turkish" neighbourhood, isn't white city in the way that Char'berg or Potsdam is, either. In the 30 years I've been visiting Berlin on-and-off, I've never yet been bothered by the call to prayer, and yet where I stay in Moabit has a mosque in the next road, and I'm not a heavy sleeper!

I think that Evander is perhaps a little hysterical.

Maybe you're more tolerant than most? 'hysterical' I might be, but I wouldn't want to hear it at a squillion dB 5X a day thank you very much, and I don't think many non-muslims would. So bully for you!

 

[Manter]

Maybe you're more tolerant than most? 'hysterical' I might be, but I wouldn't want to hear it at a squillion dB 5X a day thank you very much, and I don't think many non-muslims would. So bully for you!

Municipal law in Germany is that amplified noise has to have a licence: and places like cologne have passed ordinances limiting the volume permissible. I doubt it's a problem outside the heads of racists.

 

[DotCommunist]

extreme Islam on the warpath

oh noes

 

[Evander]

Municipal law in Germany is that amplified noise has to have a licence: and places like cologne have passed ordinances limiting the volume permissible. I doubt it's a problem outside the heads of racists.

Well obviously you're as tolerant as Panda, so bully for you too. But on behalf of all us 'racists' (

), can you tell me what the permissible volume is please? And maybe equate it with a more familiar sound to help me conceptualize it? Thanks.

 

[Manter]

Well obviously you're as tolerant as Panda, so bully for you too. But on behalf of all us 'racists' (

), can you tell me what the permissible volume is please? And maybe equate it with a more familiar sound to help me conceptualize it? Thanks.

Depends on the city. You'll need to go and look up the city ordinances.

Not entirely sure when tolerance became a bad thing either

 

[tony.c]

I have never heard a call to prayer from any mosque in London, and there are three quite near where I live.
Or church bells.

 

[Evander]

Depends on the city. You'll need to go and look up the city ordinances.

Not entirely sure when tolerance became a bad thing either

Is there nothing which irritates you, or that you disapprove of?

 

[Evander]

I have never heard a call to prayer from any mosque in London, and there are three quite near where I live.

Let me know when it kicks off will you please - if it's going on in Germany it's only a matter of time before it gets here too. I'd sell up fast if I were you.