Reclaim the Streets - what happened??

[free spirit]

Why does party music have to be relevant? Were all the records played at RTS "relevant"?

well personally I'd have felt a bit odd dancing around under an anticapitalist banner to music that had an entirely different message.

 

[Blagsta]

well personally I'd have felt a bit odd dancing around under an anticapitalist banner to music that had an entirely different message.

Most acid techno doesn't have a message, except that saying ketamine is great.

 

[Blagsta]

erm nope, not at all, the vast majority of that style of music at that time was being produced, and released by artists and labels that were linked directly with the RTS scene, and had the same or similar DIY ethos as RTS was espousing. A few of the records that got played were also probably on major labels, but this would be the minority.

If it was RnB getting played, the vast majority of the music would be from artists on major labels, with very very little available on small scale diy labels.

Yes, you have a point. But whether RnB is played is irrelevant and it wasn't me that mentionned it in the first place. My point is that concentrating solely on acid techno is rather ghettoised and excludes a lot of people. If there are going to be RTS parties again, I'd like to see a more inclusive and varied music policy. I wouldn't expect a whole 8 hours of RnB or a whole 8 hours of anything. What I'd like is an attitude to music that isn't exclusive and doesn't subscribe to elitist notions of 'underground' purity.

 

[mitochondria]

So gimme your RTS stage lineup.

Mine could look like this:

The Clash
Dub Syndicate
Can
Lawrie Immersion
Chumbawamba
Fila Brazillia
Nitzer Ebb
Derrick May
Henry Rollins spoken word

Sorry, couldn't really mix any r'n'b into this

Your turn, Blagsta. Give it a shot.

 

[Blagsta]

So gimme your RTS stage lineup.

Mine could look like this:

The Clash
Dub Syndicate
Can
Lawrie Immersion
Chumbawamba
Fila Brazillia
Nitzer Ebb
Derrick May
Henry Rollins spoken word

Sorry, couldn't really mix any r'n'b into this

Your turn, Blagsta. Give it a shot.

It was you that mentioned r'n'b, not me. I don't have a problem with much of that. Not much of it has any kind of message though. Actually, I'm sure Derrick May could chuck in some r'n'b. After all, Detroit techno has roots in soul.

 

[free spirit]

Yes, you have a point. But whether RnB is played is irrelevant and it wasn't me that mentionned it in the first place. My point is that concentrating solely on acid techno is rather ghettoised and excludes a lot of people. If there are going to be RTS parties again, I'd like to see a more inclusive and varied music policy. I wouldn't expect a whole 8 hours of RnB or a whole 8 hours of anything. What I'd like is an attitude to music that isn't exclusive and doesn't subscribe to elitist notions of 'underground' purity.

so in essence you're now agreeing with my first sentence about this?

eh - I think I'm with you to an extent if you're arguing that more musical diversity would be good, but alicia keys wtf.

the problem with what you're suggesting being that in general the rig would largely get to dictate what dj's got to play as it was their rig being risked. Some rigs had a more diverse policy than others i guess - unsound vs immersion / liberator, but in general rig politics would usually dictate that the rig owners decide who plays.

The other way to get more variety would be to have more rigs, plying different stuff, but this would be difficult to pull off being as the entire thing's illegal, and smuggling rigs in through police lines is difficult, never mind having the numbers of people to protect multiple rigs. besides, at j18 there was a fair variety of music played, I'm sure there was a live punk band, samba band, a couple of 12 volt bike PA's playing random stuff (jive?), lots of random bits of live sax, guitar etc. as well as the main techno pa. In birmingham I'm pretty sure there were actually 3 rigs planned, 2 of them got stuck behind police lines, and the only rig that made it in was a little techno rig (dj playing from the back seat of a car).

At the end of the day I'm pretty sure a lot of it came down to which crew's had the balls to bring a rig in and kick the party off, the acid techno crews had those balls and did it, others didn't - therefore the sound track was mainly acid techno.

 

[Gmart]

Went to so many of these in the late 90's. The best one for me was in Brummy where the music was vvery hardcore, but we had lots of fun until the police moved in late, herding us towards a decent noght at the Q club. Great night.

I suppose that the new millennia proved to be a turning point, with a good many crackdowns up North and many campaigns just being ignored.

I remember taking over the Hacienda in Manchester which was a very big deal. Got into NME, but eventually did very little for the movements of the time. A few went to prison, moved on and that was that. Police were OOO, but no change there of course.

That was also the 'Occasional Cafe' movement when we used to scout out an empty building, get in, post section 6's to the doors and have parties/political events for a month while the landlord got rid of us.

Often resulted in the building being used after, but even now some are still empty 10 years on... Sad really, but few people are particularly interested in empty buildings and the abuse by landowners this represents.

In the end there just weren't the numbers of people prepared to continue fighting, hard as this might be to accept. When one of your mates goes to prison, injuring his/her life prospects it makes a lot of people think twice.

 

[HackneyE9]

Painful as it is to acknowledge it, once the surprise element was lost at the end of the 90s, the police tactic of just corralling everyone into a space and keeping them there for eight hours or so was frustratingly effective.

There were also a couple of suspicious things going on at the 2000 Guerilla Gardening one - unlike the previous RTS things there'd been loads of mainstream press coverage in the build up, all of it alarmist 'bringing pitchforks' bollocks. I was part of a big CM bike ride within the square and late afternoon some (in retrospect) short-haired cop-lookalike on a bike suggested everyone cycled off on a pointless detour around Victoria - and by the time we got back Parliament Sq had been sealed off by the cops, so somebody had done an effective job of getting all the cyclists out of the square. I got back in through police lines however.

And before that, nearly all the shops on Whitehall had shut for the day - apart from the Macdonalds that got trashed. Funny coincidence that.

 

[Blagsta]

so in essence you're now agreeing with my first sentence about this?

It wasn't me that initially mentioned Alicia Keys. However, the snobbery against r'n'b displayed here is symptomatic of the problem.

the problem with what you're suggesting being that in general the rig would largely get to dictate what dj's got to play as it was their rig being risked. Some rigs had a more diverse policy than others i guess - unsound vs immersion / liberator, but in general rig politics would usually dictate that the rig owners decide who plays.

Agreed. There is a lot of musical snobbery on the free party scene. I remember some squat crew coming to Birmingham and staying at our place for the G8 RTS. One of them came into our living room, where someone was playing some REM and said something like "you're a party crew, yet you like REM? Pah!". This is indicative of attitudes that can be prevalent on the scene - a real narrow mindedness. They also tried to squat somewhere for an after party, despite being told they don't have a chance in Brum at that time - and got nicked twice. They were arrogant fools and fucked a lot of people off. Along with some James Bond fantasists from (I think) Manchester EF/RTS who insisted on meeting in some bushes in the park. We got treated a bit like hicks from the sticks and it pissed a lot of people off.

In birmingham I'm pretty sure there were actually 3 rigs planned, 2 of them got stuck behind police lines, and the only rig that made it in was a little techno rig (dj playing from the back seat of a car).

Yeah, that was our rig.

At the end of the day I'm pretty sure a lot of it came down to which crew's had the balls to bring a rig in and kick the party off, the acid techno crews had those balls and did it, others didn't - therefore the sound track was mainly acid techno.

True. Although I seem to recall a house system (Smokescreen?) at an RTS in Sheffield in '97. That rocked.

 

[editor]

Really can't see the connection between RTS and Alicia Keys to be honest.

 

[Blagsta]

Really can't see the connection between RTS and Alicia Keys to be honest.

There isn't one. That's not the point though.

 

[mitochondria]

The point was one can't do a revolution with r'n'b.

 

[editor]

The point was one can't do a revolution with r'n'b.

I'm pretty sure you can, you know!

 

[Blagsta]

The point was one can't do a revolution with r'n'b.

You can't do one with acid techno either. That's the point.

 

[Dan U]

If you were going to hold the 2008 equivalent of an old-skool RTS, what genres of music would you play?


Yes, this is an indirect suggestion for one of the many reasons for it fading.

Lawrie Immersion playing 'London Acid City' out the side of a truck or stfu

i miss RTS a lot. and that whole time of big protests, a sense that things could change, energised people.

 

[free spirit]

Lawrie Immersion playing 'London Acid City' out the side of a truck or stfu

i miss RTS a lot. and that whole time of big protests, a sense that things could change, energised people.

me too, do you think we've been laying low long enough to regain the elements of surprise?

 

[Dan U]

me too, do you think we've been laying low long enough to regain the elements of surprise?

sadly, legislation has moved on

considering a Free Party crew were being prosecuted under a section of anti terror legislation until a judge belatedly threw it out of court

 

[free spirit]

blagsta - had a feeling that rig in brum had something to do with you, respect - that had me dancing all afternoon, and it was a pleasure sitting in front of rows of riot police to help protect your rig

we'll probably have to just agree to disagree on the R n B front. IMO the link between the squat party scene and RTS was too important in terms of bringing in party heads in sufficient numbers, and sufficiently up for it to face down riot police to protect the rig etc. I just don't see that you'd get that if you were playing rnb / pop / oasis, and you'd defo lose the main party crowd at that point. People who want mtv friendly music can access it all over the shop, so they're not going to be so up for the idea of fighting for their right to party, when they could much more easily go to any cheesy bar in town and listen to it / switch on mtv dance.

If you took your concept to it's logical conclusion you'd end up with the equivalent of some local commercial radio roadshow, which is about as subversive as an orange, and as likely to inspire a big crowd willing to risk arrest to listen and dance to it.

 

[free spirit]

sadly, legislation has moved on

considering a Free Party crew were being prosecuted under a section of anti terror legislation until a judge belatedly threw it out of court

hmm - I know what you mean, but then I can't help thinking that this whole ban on protests in parliament square thing's a bit like a red rag to a bull - I'd happily get nicked in a protest that helped get rid of that bit of legislation (at least drew attention to it), and a big RTS would be my chosen method of protesting it.

fuck, I just realised j18's 10th anniversary is next year

 

[soulman]

That 'thump thump thump' music isn't for everyone. Personally, I prefer a nice live band. Samba, Pipe or Brass...

 

[Blagsta]

blagsta - had a feeling that rig in brum had something to do with you, respect - that had me dancing all afternoon, and it was a pleasure sitting in front of rows of riot police to help protect your rig

we'll probably have to just agree to disagree on the R n B front. IMO the link between the squat party scene and RTS was too important in terms of bringing in party heads in sufficient numbers, and sufficiently up for it to face down riot police to protect the rig etc. I just don't see that you'd get that if you were playing rnb / pop / oasis, and you'd defo lose the main party crowd at that point. People who want mtv friendly music can access it all over the shop, so they're not going to be so up for the idea of fighting for their right to party, when they could much more easily go to any cheesy bar in town and listen to it / switch on mtv dance.

If you took your concept to it's logical conclusion you'd end up with the equivalent of some local commercial radio roadshow, which is about as subversive as an orange, and as likely to inspire a big crowd willing to risk arrest to listen and dance to it.

But I'm not talking about pop, Oasis etc. Not all r'n'b is commercial pop music. What I'm saying is that there is room for eclectic music. R'n'b can fit in a set with reggae, hip hop, funk, soul etc. Hip hop, reggae, soul and funk have produced some quite subversive records in their time. I want DJ's and crews to have some imagination with what they play. Heck, I'm not a great DJ but even I can play a set that spans from Sister Sledge to KRS1, that incorporates punk and soul. The free party scene can be very narrow minded with music sometimes and I don't like that.

 

[Gmart]

DJ's are often purists who refuse to play popular dance hits like The Prodigy etc. Even the music at that Brum RTS was closer to Gabba than Acid Techno, and I've lost count of the number of free parties completely destroyed by the DJ's playing obscure techno which only they and the Ket Headz like...

 

[HackneyE9]

Wasn't there one about a month after J18, outside Euston station? Police van set alight.

 

[Blagsta]

DJ's are often purists who refuse to play popular dance hits like The Prodigy etc. Even the music at that Brum RTS was closer to Gabba than Acid Techno, and I've lost count of the number of free parties completely destroyed by the DJ's playing obscure techno which only they and the Ket Headz like...

There was no gabba played at the Brum RTS. Acid techno and hard techno, but no gabba.

 

[Blagsta]

Hip hop, reggae, soul and funk have produced some quite subversive records in their time.

There's also a history of hip hop, funk and soul illegal warehouse parties, illegal reggae blues parties etc. I'm sure you could get a crowd to protect a rig.

 

[editor]

To be honest, the music being played at a protest isn't the most important thing to me: it's the vibe that matters.

That's what I liked best about Cooltan - there you could hear the lot - techno, folk, rock, jazz and more, with a bit of dodgy performance art thrown in.

 

[Blagsta]

Wasn't there one about a month after J18, outside Euston station? Police van set alight.

Wasn't it in November, N30?

Yeah, here we are
http://rts.gn.apc.org/n30/n30tms.htm

 

[Blagsta]

To be honest, the music being played at a protest isn't the most important thing to me: it's the vibe that matters.

That's what I liked best about Cooltan - there you could hear the lot - techno, folk, rock, jazz and more, with a bit of dodgy performance art thrown in.

Bingo!

 

[editor]

Wasn't it in November, N30?

Yeah, here we are
http://rts.gn.apc.org/n30/n30tms.htm

Report here:
http://www.urban75.org/archive/news095.html

 

[mitochondria]

I'm pretty sure you can, you know!

I want to see that