Reclaim the Streets - what happened??

[free spirit]

If you're interested there is an attempt underway to produce a book of sorts about London RTS.

Anyone involved in writing the book, please make sure it doesn't miss out the input of the regional RTS groupings in pulling off the Birmingham, J18 and Guerilla Gardening. The power of having sorted, up for it affinity groups of 20-40 experienced activists landing fresh in london, doing their own thing and supporting the London RTS where needed shouldn't be underestimated IMO, though only a few peole in the London RTS were probably really aware of this or involved in liasing with us.

On J18 in particular other than the Critical Mass thing, it was the out of london affinity groups who were out and about in the morning doing independent actions - our lot had already blockaded the internatinoal petroleum exchange, bank of england, and a couple of other targets, plus led 3 fit teams on a merry chase around london and flypostered half of london before turning up at liverpool street. We then met someone from london RTS who gave us one set of the flags and instructions for leading one of the groups to the main site, and a load of the printed instruction masks to distribute to the crowd - I think the logic being that london RTS was probably infiltrated, so give the trusted out of town affinity groups the task.

If memory serves me right, I'm sure we came across groups from manchester, Brighton and Leeds, out in the morning - Manchester (I think) had closed off one of the main london bridges into the city for over an hour in the morning rush hour with activists dangling on ropes from the bridge to block the traffic with a J18 banner, and I'm pretty sure there were a few other groupings around doing stuff as well, which also helped to keep the fit teams busy and off the back of the folks sorting stuff for the afternoon.

The first mayday guerilla gardening thing kept the regional link as it followed on from a weekend gathering / conference type thingy which most of the regional affinity groups came down for. From our point of view, we'd also moved the green festival to the last weekend in may that year which allowed us to attend. That was the last one pretty much any of the newcastle lot went to as the newcastle green festival moved back to mayday, and a fair few of the leeds, manchester, brighton, edinburgh crews also came to us rather than going and getting kettled in london. While it's not the only reason for the demise of the mayday's, I'm sure the loss of the regional affinity groups was a contributory factor - these types of affinity groups of experienced activists are pretty good at spotting kettling actions, and leading / supporting the break outs before the police get their act together.

None of this is to take away from what the main London RTS was doing, it was always London RTS's baby, and we were following your lead, just making sure our role also get's a mention.

 

[The Black Hand]

yeah, towards the end of the day there were a few fucking idiots, mostly brew crew types (the ones I saw actually were sporting cans of special brew) launching bottles randomly towards the police, but not giving a shit really where they went or who they hit. I remember having it out with 2 absolutely twatted lasses who'd just lobbed a couple of bottles passed my head, and about 45 degree angle away from where the police actually were, their response was to try to start on me - we left at that point.

Earlier in the day though was absolutely incredible, most empowering thing I've been involved in, fluffy as fuck but still taking no prisoners - I remember taking some road junction on the outskirts of the protest with a random female sax player and a few others, about 20 of us just going fuck it this junction's ours, taking it and holding it for a god hour or more with nothing more than a saxaphone.

Like it or not - ANY mass campaign will have a rich variety of people at it. They are, after all, the people. I think it was actually the lack of political experience of RTS which was their downfall, they couldn't and did not prepare (which they could have) for situations that arose on J18 and the political aftermath. That was because their political form had not developed in any serious way - they had no communities of support and a lack of outreach and 'serious politics'. By serious, I mean networked politics, where people give mutual aid reciprocally to each others groups. RTS was the group at the meeting, and this is OK for organising events, but very very poor and actually inadequate as a model of social change.

 

[Blagsta]

I like all kinds of music and I am not saying there's something wrong with Alicia Keys here (she is a great money-making corporate machine). My point is that the perfect soundtrack for RTS is/was acid techno. You may feel rebellious at an illegal street demonstration listening to (lost) love lyrics or Burial's hypnotic sounds but that just wouldn't work for me.
I need the CHARGE! effect (jungle has it, too).

Perhaps a long slow march of thousands with a dub soundsystem providing musical background would be fiiiiiiine as well. Different kind of demo though. Spliff Parade!

I liked it back then, but that was 10 years ago! These days acid techno bores the pants off me. Horses for courses.

btw, what makes you think acid techno doesn't make money for corporations? What do you think vinyl is made from?

 

[free spirit]

Like it or not - ANY mass campaign will have a rich variety of people at it.

yeah I've no problem with that, what I have a problem with is pissed up fuckwits standing 50 yards away from police lines behind the main mass of protestors lobbing bottles in the vague direction of the police, but no having a hope in hell of actually reaching the police, an way more likely to land on the protesters.

If peeps want to have a go at the police, fair play, go and have a go at the police, but these pricks really didn't give a shit if it was the police or us lot that their bottles were landing on so long as they got to play smashy smashy.

They are, after all, the people. I think it was actually the lack of political experience of RTS which was their downfall, they couldn't and did not prepare (which they could have) for situations that arose on J18 and the political aftermath. That was because their political form had not developed in any serious way - they had no communities of support and a lack of outreach and 'serious politics'. By serious, I mean networked politics, where people give mutual aid reciprocally to each others groups. RTS was the group at the meeting, and this is OK for organising events, but very very poor and actually inadequate as a model of social change.

and who should RTS have modelled themselves on? Class War? SWP?

IMO RTS was as successful as it was precisely because it didn't ram 'serious politics' down people's throats, though there was serious politics running through it.

You could have a point about the networking, which I think partially links in with what I was saying about the regional affinity groups. I kinda disagree with you about RTS as a potential model for social change - I'd agree with you if you were talking about it being a bad vehicle for social change, ie RTS being a group to lead the revolution etc. but from what I understand, RTS was more along the lines of prividing inspiration for DIY groups around the world, to provide the call to arms (so to speak), and inspire people to get off their arses and do it themselves. In this way I think they were incredibly successful, inspiring global protests that kicked off the global anticapitalist protest movement.

The main problem with this model was that when London RTS fell apart, much of the rest of the global network who'd been inspired by London RTS either followed their lead and also fell apart, or in many cases just moved on slightly and operated under slightly different names but with a similar ethos.

 

[co-op]

It seemed like all the humour and innovation was fast draining out of the day to be replaced by twats hell bent on pointless vandalism and, err, 'smashing the system'. Or a nearby window. Or scraping someone's car. Anyone/anything would do.

I left before the trouble on J18 so was left on a total high by it, but the Parliament Square/Guerilla Gardening day - there were some really dodgy activity, I smelt crack being smoked all the way up Whitehall, it's never been a smell I link with a good vibe or anything very constructive going on.

 

[mitochondria]

I liked it back then, but that was 10 years ago! These days acid techno bores the pants off me. Horses for courses.

I agree. It's not the freshest sound I have heard a whole 303 spectrum already.

btw, what makes you think acid techno doesn't make money for corporations? What do you think vinyl is made from?

I never said it doesn't - most of things we buy make money for corporations - but you know that Alicia Keys makes zillions more than some punky tramps releasing obscure music on vinyl.

Black PVC: EUR 0.94/kg
Alicia Keys CD: GBP 7.98

Lawrie Immersion dropping Fallin'('avin it remix): priceless

 

[Blagsta]

I agree. It's not the freshest sound I have heard a whole 303 spectrum already.



I never said it doesn't - most of things we buy make money for corporations - but you know that Alicia Keys makes zillions more than some punky tramps releasing obscure music on vinyl.

Black PVC: EUR 0.94/kg
Alicia Keys CD: GBP 7.98

Lawrie Immersion dropping Fallin'('avin it remix): priceless

So what? It's a funny thing to criticise her for.

 

[mitochondria]

So what? It's a funny thing to criticise her for.

where have I criticised Alicia Keys? I have just used her as an example.

 

[Blagsta]

An example of what? That the music industry makes money? Is this news to anyone?

 

[mitochondria]

An example of a performer that doesn't go along with RTS imo. Neither on the musical nor ideological side.

Maybe we should make a poll.

 

[Blagsta]

An example of a performer that doesn't go along with RTS imo. Neither on the musical nor ideological side.

Maybe we should make a poll.

I find this attitude really bizarre. Is there only certain music that is idealogically pure enough? What a crock of divisive elitist shit. Unfortunately it's an attitude that appears to be prevalent among some people on the "underground" party scene - only certain types of music are acceptable. If you like this, you can't like that. I remember people on the Sorted mailing list slagging off UK garage as not being "underground" enough - as if pirate radio is too commercial for them! I hate this attitude, it's fucking juvenile.

 

[Blagsta]

Sorry if that came across a bit angry, nothing personal. It's just that your attitude illustrates one of the problems with RTS IMO. It only really appeals to a very small group of people. There seems to be something about ownership here - acid techno is "our" music, i.e. punky, crusty, squatting music. Only "our" sort of people will get it. If you're into r'n'b then you won't get RTS. That's what I get from your attitude and I find it quite snobby tbh.

 

[free spirit]

I find this attitude really bizarre. Is there only certain music that is idealogically pure enough? What a crock of divisive elitist shit. Unfortunately it's an attitude that appears to be prevalent among some people on the "underground" party scene - only certain types of music are acceptable. If you like this, you can't like that. I remember people on the Sorted mailing list slagging off UK garage as not being "underground" enough - as if pirate radio is too commercial for them! I hate this attitude, it's fucking juvenile.

eh - I think I'm with you to an extent if you're arguing that more musical diversity would be good, but alicia keys wtf.

besides it's all a bit irrelevant isn't it? as I understood it, the music that got played was largely the music that was the chosen music of the rig who had the balls to get their rig in, risking arrest, equipment being impounded etc. The acid techno crews had those balls, alicia keys and her ilk don't.

besides it'd be a bit odd having an anticapitalist protest fronted by corporate lacky style musicians... if you want that sort of thing, bob & bono are probably moe what you're looking for.

 

[Blagsta]

eh - I think I'm with you to an extent if you're arguing that more musical diversity would be good, but alicia keys wtf.

besides it's all a bit irrelevant isn't it? as I understood it, the music that got played was largely the music that was the chosen music of the rig who had the balls to get their rig in, risking arrest, equipment being impounded etc. The acid techno crews had those balls, alicia keys and her ilk don't.

besides it'd be a bit odd having an anticapitalist protest fronted by corporate lacky style musicians... if you want that sort of thing, bob & bono are probably moe what you're looking for.

What does this even mean and how is Alicia Keys one?

 

[mitochondria]

Oh, come on. I was not slagging anything, I have not used the U world (I don't divide music like this). I simply don't envision Alicia Keys performing at RTS street party. Music is connected to the set & setting of a party and you can't deny it.
2 hours of a great string quartet would not fit a posh nightclub where r'n'b is usually spinned, you could do it but I wouldn't bet on the punters to be happy. It would fit a restaurant (along with r'n'b) where techno would not be a music of choice. And so on...

Is that hard to grasp?

 

[free spirit]

Sorry if that came across a bit angry, nothing personal. It's just that your attitude illustrates one of the problems with RTS IMO. It only really appeals to a very small group of people. There seems to be something about ownership here - acid techno is "our" music, i.e. punky, crusty, squatting music. Only "our" sort of people will get it. If you're into r'n'b then you won't get RTS. That's what I get from your attitude and I find it quite snobby tbh.

i think it's pretty fair to say that if you're into R n B, chances are you won't get RTS, rnb being mostly about bling culture, which is pretty much the antithesis of what RTS is about.

bad example IMO.

 

[Blagsta]

Oh, come on. I was not slagging anything, I have not used the U world (I don't divide music like this). I simply don't envision Alicia Keys performing at RTS street party. Music is connected to the set & setting of a party and you can't deny it.
2 hours of a great string quartet would not fit a posh nightclub where r'n'b is usually spinned, you could do it but I wouldn't bet on the punters to be happy. It would fit a restaurant (along with r'n'b) where techno would not be a music of choice. And so on...

Is that hard to grasp?

I don't envisage Alicia Keys performing either. I wouldn't have a problem with some r'n'b being played though. I don't get why you would. You seem to have very fixed ideas of what constitutes party music. I find that attitude a bit snobby.

 

[Blagsta]

i think it's pretty fair to say that if you're into R n B, chances are you won't get RTS, rnb being mostly about bling culture, which is pretty much the antithesis of what RTS is about.

bad example IMO.

Come on, this is really patronising. If you like this, you won't like that. Come on...

 

[free spirit]

What does this even mean and how is Alicia Keys one?

she has been contracted throughout her career to various Sony Records offshots, she has fuck all to do with the DIY ethos espoused by RTS.

I've no major beef with Alicia Keys, I even quite like some of her stuff, but it / she would have had no place at an RTS IMO.

 

[mitochondria]

i think it's pretty fair to say that if you're into R n B, chances are you won't get RTS, rnb being mostly about bling culture, which is pretty much the antithesis of what RTS is about.

bad example IMO.

Exactly.

Where would they drive their Escalades if the streets were reclaimed??

 

[Blagsta]

she has been contracted throughout her career to various Sony Records offshots, she has fuck all to do with the DIY ethos espoused by RTS.

I've no major beef with Alicia Keys, I even quite like some of her stuff, but it / she would have had no place at an RTS IMO.

So no records on major label subsidiarys ever got played at RTS parties? Really?

 

[Blagsta]

Exactly.

Where would they drive their Escalades if the streets were reclaimed??

Fucks sake.

 

[Blagsta]

This is exactly the sort of elitist divisive crap I'm on about.

 

[free spirit]

Come on, this is really patronising. If you like this, you won't like that. Come on...

they are polar opposite viewpoints - one promotes the bling image, the worship of money, and the aquisition of stuff, the other promotes an anticonsumerist, anticapitalist message.

You'd not expect to see a tory politician being invited to speak at an RTS, why'd you expect to hear music being played who's message was entirely counter to the RTS message?

besides rnb's shite

 

[Blagsta]

they are polar opposite viewpoints - one promotes the bling image, the worship of money, and the aquisition of stuff, the other promotes an anticonsumerist, anticapitalist message.

You'd not expect to see a tory politician being invited to speak at an RTS, why'd you expect to hear music being played who's message was entirely counter to the RTS message?

besides rnb's shite

So everyone into r'n'b is a raving capitalist? Patronising shit.

 

[free spirit]

So no records on major label subsidiarys ever got played at RTS parties? Really?

not none at all, but with acid techno, the vast majority of it was released on small scale independent record labels owned and managed by people from the scene, and the whole thing was built around a DIY punk ethos, same as RTS.

 

[Blagsta]

not none at all, but with acid techno, the vast majority of it was released on small scale independent record labels owned and managed by people from the scene, and the whole thing was built around a DIY punk ethos, same as RTS.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. However, some records played at RTS would have been on major label subsidiaries. Rather scuppering your argument.

 

[free spirit]

So everyone into r'n'b is a raving capitalist? Patronising shit.

are you hung over or something?

I'm not saying everyone into RnB is a raving capitalist, but the major theme running through the music is either bling, or stuff about girls etc. I fail to see the relevance.

 

[Blagsta]

are you hung over or something?

I'm not saying everyone into RnB is a raving capitalist, but the major theme running through the music is either bling, or stuff about girls etc. I fail to see the relevance.

Why does party music have to be relevant? Were all the records played at RTS "relevant"?

 

[free spirit]

Yes, I'm well aware of that. However, some records played at RTS would have been on major label subsidiaries. Rather scuppering your argument.

erm nope, not at all, the vast majority of that style of music at that time was being produced, and released by artists and labels that were linked directly with the RTS scene, and had the same or similar DIY ethos as RTS was espousing. A few of the records that got played were also probably on major labels, but this would be the minority.

If it was RnB getting played, the vast majority of the music would be from artists on major labels, with very very little available on small scale diy labels.