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Recent attacks in Iraq

Idris2002 said:
Newman-and-Baddiel-History-Today.jpg


kebabking - the ISIS boys may have little more than a nice trophy, but in the context of the present crisis does it really matter if they don't have trained bods who can actually use these weapons to their full potential? Maybe all they need is a bit of direct fire kit?
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theyve got all the military expertise the saudis care to share with them . And all sorts of ex Iraqi baathists , military etc happy to help them out . Plus around 2 billion in the kitty, which can buy whatever expertise they need .
 
Idris2002 said:
As for demanding all other groups disarm and pledge loyalty, well they can't expect that one to be obeyed. Or maybe they do. . .
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With all the videos of them executing prisoners any resistance will stiffen it's not like their opposition has any choice now ,but, to fight.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28246732

Article by John Gray, claiming that ISIS should be viewed as a modern phenomenon bearing more in common with radical communism and anarchism than with a true return to Islam.

When you see the leader of Isis, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, in Mosul announcing the creation of a caliphate - an Islamic state ruled by a religious leader - it's easy to think that what you're watching is a march back into the past. The horrifying savagery with which the jihadist organisation treats anyone that stands in its way seems to come from a bygone era. The fact that Isis - the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, which has now changed its name to the Islamic State - claims that it wants to restore an early type of Islam, leads many of us to see it as trying to bring about a reversion to mediaeval values.

To my mind, this gives too much credence to the way Isis views itself. There's actually little in common between the horribly repressive regime it has established in parts of Iraq and Syria and the subtle Islamic states of mediaeval times, which in Spain, for example, exercised a degree of tolerance at a time when the rest of Europe was wracked by persecution. Destroying ancient shrines and mosques, Isis is trying to eradicate every trace of Islamic tradition. It's probably even more oppressive than the Taliban were in Afghanistan. In power, Isis resembles a 20th Century totalitarian state more than any type of traditional rule.

...

Isis makes effective use of the internet to broadcast the brutal manner with which it deals with anyone judged to be an enemy. Isis's savagery isn't impulsive. Everything suggests it's a strategy developed over a number of years. When it posts videos of people being beheaded or shot, Isis advances several of its goals - simultaneously inspiring dread in its enemies, teaching the communities it controls the dire consequences of departing from an exceptionally extreme interpretation of Islam and sowing chaos in the population as a whole. There's nothing mediaeval about this mix of ruthless business enterprise, well-publicised savagery and transnational organised crime. Dedicated to building a new society from scratch, Isis has more in common with modern revolutionary movements.

...
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Pretty weak argument overall I think - saying that they are modern because they make use of the internet, partake in (modern) international organised crime, and produce slick propaganda is a bit of a non-statement. They live in the modern world and have access to modern technology, of course they use it. That isn't really saying anything substantial. His other point is that they aren't truly returning to an older age of Islam, because medieval Islam was considerably more tolerant than they are. But again, that hardly means they aren't conservatives - the fact that the idealised past bears little similarity to the real past is common to all conservative outlooks, and that is the sense in which conservative movements are utopian in the same way as radical movements. Iconoclasm and millenarianism, I will give him that though.

The reason I post this however is his claim that "Some of the thinkers who developed radical Islamist ideas are known to have been influenced by European anarchism and communism, especially by the idea that society can be reshaped by a merciless revolutionary vanguard using systematic violence." Can't find anything else on this through google, does anybody know exactly what he is referring to?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28246732

Article by John Gray, claiming that ISIS should be viewed as a modern phenomenon bearing more in common with radical communism and anarchism than with a true return to Islam.

When you see the leader of Isis, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, in Mosul announcing the creation of a caliphate - an Islamic state ruled by a religious leader - it's easy to think that what you're watching is a march back into the past. The horrifying savagery with which the jihadist organisation treats anyone that stands in its way seems to come from a bygone era. The fact that Isis - the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, which has now changed its name to the Islamic State - claims that it wants to restore an early type of Islam, leads many of us to see it as trying to bring about a reversion to mediaeval values.

To my mind, this gives too much credence to the way Isis views itself. There's actually little in common between the horribly repressive regime it has established in parts of Iraq and Syria and the subtle Islamic states of mediaeval times, which in Spain, for example, exercised a degree of tolerance at a time when the rest of Europe was wracked by persecution. Destroying ancient shrines and mosques, Isis is trying to eradicate every trace of Islamic tradition. It's probably even more oppressive than the Taliban were in Afghanistan. In power, Isis resembles a 20th Century totalitarian state more than any type of traditional rule.

...

Isis makes effective use of the internet to broadcast the brutal manner with which it deals with anyone judged to be an enemy. Isis's savagery isn't impulsive. Everything suggests it's a strategy developed over a number of years. When it posts videos of people being beheaded or shot, Isis advances several of its goals - simultaneously inspiring dread in its enemies, teaching the communities it controls the dire consequences of departing from an exceptionally extreme interpretation of Islam and sowing chaos in the population as a whole. There's nothing mediaeval about this mix of ruthless business enterprise, well-publicised savagery and transnational organised crime. Dedicated to building a new society from scratch, Isis has more in common with modern revolutionary movements.

...
Click to expand...

Pretty weak argument overall I think - saying that they are modern because they make use of the internet, partake in (modern) international organised crime, and produce slick propaganda is a bit of a non-statement. They live in the modern world and have access to modern technology, of course they use it. That isn't really saying anything substantial. His other point is that they aren't truly returning to an older age of Islam, because medieval Islam was considerably more tolerant than they are. But again, that hardly means they aren't conservatives - the fact that the idealised past bears little similarity to the real past is common to all conservative outlooks, and that is the sense in which conservative movements are utopian in the same way as radical movements. Iconoclasm and millenarianism, I will give him that though.

The reason I post this however is his claim that "Some of the thinkers who developed radical Islamist ideas are known to have been influenced by European anarchism and communism, especially by the idea that society can be reshaped by a merciless revolutionary vanguard using systematic violence." Can't find anything else on this through google, does anybody know exactly what he is referring to?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28246732

Article by John Gray, claiming that ISIS should be viewed as a modern phenomenon bearing more in common with radical communism and anarchism than with a true return to Islam.

When you see the leader of Isis, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, in Mosul announcing the creation of a caliphate - an Islamic state ruled by a religious leader - it's easy to think that what you're watching is a march back into the past. The horrifying savagery with which the jihadist organisation treats anyone that stands in its way seems to come from a bygone era. The fact that Isis - the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, which has now changed its name to the Islamic State - claims that it wants to restore an early type of Islam, leads many of us to see it as trying to bring about a reversion to mediaeval values.

To my mind, this gives too much credence to the way Isis views itself. There's actually little in common between the horribly repressive regime it has established in parts of Iraq and Syria and the subtle Islamic states of mediaeval times, which in Spain, for example, exercised a degree of tolerance at a time when the rest of Europe was wracked by persecution. Destroying ancient shrines and mosques, Isis is trying to eradicate every trace of Islamic tradition. It's probably even more oppressive than the Taliban were in Afghanistan. In power, Isis resembles a 20th Century totalitarian state more than any type of traditional rule.

...

Isis makes effective use of the internet to broadcast the brutal manner with which it deals with anyone judged to be an enemy. Isis's savagery isn't impulsive. Everything suggests it's a strategy developed over a number of years. When it posts videos of people being beheaded or shot, Isis advances several of its goals - simultaneously inspiring dread in its enemies, teaching the communities it controls the dire consequences of departing from an exceptionally extreme interpretation of Islam and sowing chaos in the population as a whole. There's nothing mediaeval about this mix of ruthless business enterprise, well-publicised savagery and transnational organised crime. Dedicated to building a new society from scratch, Isis has more in common with modern revolutionary movements.

...
Click to expand...

Pretty weak argument overall I think - saying that they are modern because they make use of the internet, partake in (modern) international organised crime, and produce slick propaganda is a bit of a non-statement. They live in the modern world and have access to modern technology, of course they use it. That isn't really saying anything substantial. His other point is that they aren't truly returning to an older age of Islam, because medieval Islam was considerably more tolerant than they are. But again, that hardly means they aren't conservatives - the fact that the idealised past bears little similarity to the real past is common to all conservative outlooks, and that is the sense in which conservative movements are utopian in the same way as radical movements. Iconoclasm and millenarianism, I will give him that though.

The reason I post this however is his claim that "Some of the thinkers who developed radical Islamist ideas are known to have been influenced by European anarchism and communism, especially by the idea that society can be reshaped by a merciless revolutionary vanguard using systematic violence." Can't find anything else on this through google, does anybody know exactly what he is referring to?
 
Rimbaud said:
The reason I post this however is his claim that "Some of the thinkers who developed radical Islamist ideas are known to have been influenced by European anarchism and communism, especially by the idea that society can be reshaped by a merciless revolutionary vanguard using systematic violence." Can't find anything else on this through google, does anybody know exactly what he is referring to?
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It's fairly commonplace that the origins of Brotherhood are essentially Leninist/Bolshevik... and the extracts I've seen from Sayyid Qutb's writing certainly have that flavour.
 
Massive humiliating defeat for the Iraqi gov in trying to retake Tikrit. Iran's commander in Iraq has written off the Iraqi army & hopes to somehow cobble together a force of elite Shite fighters.
Islamic State gunmen overran a former U.S. military base early Friday and killed or captured hundreds of Iraqi government troops who’d been trying to retake Saddam Hussein’s hometown of Tikrit, the worst military reversal Iraqi troops have suffered since the Islamist forces captured nearly half the country last month.

...many of the captured soldiers had been executed. “They are parading prisoners through the streets of Tikrit,”

“The government forces, which were a mix of regular army, special forces units and Shiite militias, have been destroyed,”
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http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/07/18/233786/islamic-state-overwhelms-iraqi.html
 
Is this what Maliki is doing? Revolutionaries have been organising in Baghdad for months and it's not clear who carries out what attacks when they take place but to make matters more opaque - well, I sure wouldn't put it past the criminal Assad-wannabe . . .

Following the explosion of a car on Saturday in Baghdad, Hashemi wrote on his Facebook page, and accused Iraqi premier of punishing Iraqis for not backing him in his term in power.

"I don’t know exactly the number of cars that Maliki will use to carry out an attack, but they will be as punishment for not being supported to run for the third term."
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http://basnews.com/en/News/Details/Former-Iraqi-vice-president--Maliki-is-bombing-Baghdad/27621
 
Ibn Khaldoun said:
They were supported by the CIA with roots in British Freemasonry. Sure as hell not Bolshevik.
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He openly said he was influenced by what he thought was the bolshevik model of political organisation.

You, you want a sectarian bloodbath in the capital. That will allow you to safely spout revolutionary rhetoric as a spectator.
 
teqniq said:
"I have not heard of a single protest against this type of slaughter in which Muslims are slaughtering fellow Muslims, killing tens of thousands. I suppose if ISIS was Jewish or Hindu, we might have taken to the streets."
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A demo outside the ISIS embassy?
Call for another USUK invasion of Iraq?
The problem here is who to demonstrate our anger to...

What a total disaster - US and UK have it all to answer for as far as Im concerned. Pandoras Box and then some
 
ska invita said:
.

What a total disaster - US and UK have it all to answer for as far as Im concerned. Pandoras Box and then some
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How could they have known that Iraq would turn into such a mess? If only they had had some decent analysts of the region. Oh, wait. They did know.

Months before the invasion of Iraq, U.S. intelligence agencies predicted that it would be likely to spark violent sectarian divides and provide al-Qaeda with new opportunities in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a report released yesterday by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Analysts warned that war in Iraq also could provoke Iran to assert its regional influence and "probably would result in a surge of political Islam and increased funding for terrorist groups" in the Muslim world.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052501380.html?hpid=topnews
 
goldenecitrone said:
How could they have known that Iraq would turn into such a mess? If only they had had some decent analysts of the region. Oh, wait. They did know.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052501380.html?hpid=topnews
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which is why there are only two options:
-they were arrogant enough to ignore that possibility
-they deliberately decided to destablise, divide and conquer the middle east

my money is on the latter

i would so love to see what the US planners have on their charts for the next twenty-fifty years...
 
butchersapron said:
He openly said he was influenced by what he thought was the bolshevik model of political organisation.
Click to expand...

Still, a far cry from "the origins of the Brotherhood are essentially Leninist" [laptop].

You, you want a sectarian bloodbath in the capital. That will allow you to safely spout revolutionary rhetoric as a spectator.
Click to expand...

Then I should accuse you of supporting the criminal regime whose currency is sectarianism. But even that doesn't match your spurious ill-founded sniping.

Your sectarian bloodletting is being carried out by the Maliki government. It has been for more than a year - much longer in fact but in greater intensity since 2013. That's what the revolution of the masses of Iraqis is sweeping away. More, ISIS aside, the spirit of amnesty has prevailed in the liberated areas, even while government planes bomb Tikrit, Falluja, Mosul . . .

The conditions remain for the revolution going beyond sectarian lines, however limited its present possibilities. To liberate Baghdad will also depend (at least) on its Shia support base falling away.

And when Baghdad goes so will Damascus. As they all know - Maliki, Tehran, Washington and the rest.
 
Ibn Khaldoun said:
Still, a far cry from "the origins of the Brotherhood are essentially Leninist" [laptop].
Click to expand...

What butchersapron said is precisely what I meant.

From my standpoint, Bolshevism is a model of political organisation. It's independent from the alleged goal (communism) and can be - and is - applied to a different goal - islamism, for short.

Who supported the Brotherhood is of no relevance to that analysis.
 
Ibn Khaldoun said:
Is this what Maliki is doing? Revolutionaries have been organising in Baghdad for months and it's not clear who carries out what attacks when they take place but to make matters more opaque - well, I sure wouldn't put it past the criminal Assad-wannabe . . .



http://basnews.com/en/News/Details/Former-Iraqi-vice-president--Maliki-is-bombing-Baghdad/27621
Click to expand...

Given that Hashemi has been tried in absentia for terrorism, he isn't a great source for accusations of other Iraqi politicians doing the same thing. Regardless of the unknowable relationship between the crimes he was charged with and the reality, he is part of the Sectarian bullshit, not a source that will illuminate matters greatly.
 
Rimbaud said:
The reason I post this however is his claim that "Some of the thinkers who developed radical Islamist ideas are known to have been influenced by European anarchism and communism, especially by the idea that society can be reshaped by a merciless revolutionary vanguard using systematic violence." Can't find anything else on this through google, does anybody know exactly what he is referring to?
Click to expand...

The organising methods of Hizb-ut-Tahrir have often been described as Leninist albeit mostly by critics of the group - their policies of vanguardism and entryism do resemble at least some left wing groups. I don't know if that is what he is referring to.
 
Iraq’s besieged Yazidi and Turkmen minorities cry for help

Iraqi helicopters dropped supplies to thousands of desperate people hiding in mountains from the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) fighters, as officials warned that the Yazidi in the town of Sinjar, near the Syrian border, risked being massacred or starved into extinction.

A Yazidi lawmaker broke down in tears during a parliament session as she urged the government and the international community to save her community from Islamic militants who have overrun the region.

"Over the past 48 hours, 30,000 families have been besieged in the Sinjar mountains, with no water and no food," said Vian Dakhil.

"Seventy children have already died of thirst and 30 elderly people have also died," she said.

Dakhil said 500 Yazidi men had been killed by the militants since they took over Sinjar and surrounding villages on Sunday. Their women were enslaved as "war booty", she said.

"We are being slaughtered, our entire religion is being wiped off the face of the earth. I am begging you, in the name of humanity."

The UN Security Council said ISIS militants posed a threat not only to Iraq and Syria, but to "regional peace, security and stability."...
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teqniq said:
Iraq’s besieged Yazidi and Turkmen minorities cry for help
Click to expand...
Only thing that can be done right now i think is for the kurds to suddenly from somewhere get a load of heavier weapons and enough ammunition to keep fighting at these outposts, for food and water to be air-dropped to the mountains or for a threatening counter-attack somewhere in the immediate area of sinjar/tal afar or the mosul lake - and that ain't likely.
 
aren't the Turks on rather happier terms with the Kurdish entity/state/region/government these days?

i accept that under normal conditions the Turks probably wouldn't be overly enthusiastic about tooling up a Kurdish Army, but needs must as the Devil drives, and the 'other options' box looks a bit bare...
 
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