DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
What has Turkey got to do with it? The main issue is surely how the 'Iraqi' government, or whatever is left of it, respond.
Recent attacks in Iraq
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What has Turkey got to do with it? The main issue is surely how the 'Iraqi' government, or whatever is left of it, respond.
Have you finally lost your mind?
Ataturk saved Turkey from extinction. By fighting and defeating the Western occupying forces, which were in the process of dismembering his country.
This is not in dispute as far as I know.
Except it appears by you. Loon that you are.
No, the main issue is how Turkey responds.
As your post implies, the "Iraqi government" is a non-factor here. Turkey however is a very big factor, as it could easily invade and occupy northern Iraq if it felt so inclined, and it would feel so inclined if it believed active support for the PKK would continue to emanate from that quarter.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Oh god. The game. The profs game. Not the real game.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
returning unwillingly to the real world...
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
This guy posted it up, with a load of other videos and images from Syria/Iraq: https://twitter.com/CruelName - hard to tell who he supports. He doesn't like Maliki or Syria.
Looks like it was part of a parade with some American howitzers.
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
There were also quite a few APCs and what looked like Russian tanks.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Look at the crowds.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
To be fair butchers, not sure what sort of turnout would be considered good in a war-torn, poverty-stricken town in western Iraq these days.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, not that. What do you read into that picture? Anything?
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
The missile probably does not have any operational use? Better armchair generals on urban than me though.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
It looks like a Scud-B but it's not on its TEL so I doubt it's operational. Apart from anything else they'd need 2,000kg+ of oxidiser (HNO3 + N2O4 blend) to use it which wouldn't exactly be easy to obtain. Easy pickings for Predator...
weltweit
Well-Known Member
The video I saw on BBC1 showed the missile and a series of APCs, tanks and the usual pickup trucks with heavy machine guns on them, plus black ISIS flags, driving through streets. No sign of crowds.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
which'd be a pretty good reason for anyone with half a braincell operating to stay well clear of it.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
what he said.
the Artillery pieces are ex-US M198 155mm Howitzers, it looks like they have been captured with their gun trucks, meaning they will have a stock of ammunition and charge bags, however if the gun truck is the only bit of the logistics train they've got, then its not much ammunition and not much propellant.
if they don't know what they are doing they could still use it in the direct fire mode - walls, buildings, big lumps of concrete and just point it at the target like pointing a rifle, but without Gunners its useless as a long range, fairly accurate, big stick. i don't know what kind of ammunition the US gave the IG, but the laser guided ammunition for the M198 went out of service long ago, and the newer GPS guided stuff never went onto the M198 because the gun was going out of US service anyway.
if they've captured the log support for the guns, and they have trained people who know Gunnery then they have a very powerful weapon. if they are missing either of those things then they've got a nice trophy that can do squat.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
well, ok, its not going to be useless, but from what i read - and i may well be mistaken, i'm not paying that much attention - there doesn't seem to be that much heavy, close fighting, its more like several charactors in a ballet dancing round each other, lots of 'ya boo', and advances and retreats, and short, sharp skirmishes between very mobile forces, but not much in the way of sustained, static(ish) fighting where you could actually use a very slow to move, 3/4000m range DF weapon.
i don't doubt that psychologically it matters - these ISIS bloke's know they've got heavy artillery backing them up, and the other players are probably thinking 'shit, i thought these cnuts were just twats with RPG's and Toyota Hilux's, but they've got some fcuking big kit..' - but what effect that will have, compared to all the fuss about ISIS declaring a Caliphate where all the other groups have to both disarm and pledge their loyalty to ISIS, i don't know...
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
If they try to take Baghdad, they'll probably be facing the remnant of the official army, who I assume would be a bit more committed than the guys who cut their losses and made a run for it when they saw ISIS approaching the provinces.
As for demanding all other groups disarm and pledge loyalty, well they can't expect that one to be obeyed. Or maybe they do. . .
As for demanding all other groups disarm and pledge loyalty, well they can't expect that one to be obeyed. Or maybe they do. . .
Seems to me that Laptop's the troll, posting shit like this:
Not sure what his specific motive is this time, but he certainly has a long history of anti-Turkish distortion. Hidden agenda alert.
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I think they could expect the pledge bit but not the other
I meant that, as a prerequisite for recognizing any Kurdish state in Iraq, the Turkish government would require that state to arrest the PKK leaders and declare war on the organization.
The PKK are the Turkish Kurds. The Iraqi Kurds are the KRG (among others). The Turkish government is trying to form an alliance with the KRG against the PKK. To this end they have even opened a consulate in Erbil. But they will insist on the destruction of the PKK before they go beyond hints and gestures.
This is a dramatic departure from previous policy, which unthinkingly and automatically opposed any Kurdish state anywhere. It's also a very smart move by the wily Erdogan, and likely to pay off in my opinion. Relations between the KRG and the PKK are strained, largely due to Ocalan's unreconstructed Stalinism and general fruitloopery.
I certainly have no love for Erdogan, who has basically driven me into exile. But you have to hand it to him, he's a fabulous leader for those who agree with his ideology.
Aye.
And it's less than 20 years since the PKK were kicking the KDP's collective ass all over the Kandil. This has not been forgotten.
If the PKK act according to form, they will shortly allow themselves to be provoked into attacking the KRG's infrastructure, much of which is supplied and controlled by Turkey. This will provide the perfect rationale for major incursions by the Turkish army, and ultimately to the recapture of Mosul for the Motherland.
Actually the last bit is a joke... at least I think so. You never know what Erdogan is planning, and I'd put absolutely nothing past him.
Look, if you disagree with what I say, you need to explain why.
Otherwise you really do look like a prick.
Since I've lived in Turkey, on and off, for over 10 years I believe I have a fairly informed opinion on the geopolitical situation there. Not perfect, and I'd welcome informed debate, but certainly a hell of a lot better than yours.
I mean, you thought I was saying that Ataturk had been an agent of the Western Powers. Which bespeaks a veritable Sahara of ignorance stretching between us on this matter, as indeed on many others.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Kurdish President calls for independence referendum http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...dent-barzani-proposes-independence-referendum
What is everyone's problem with phildwyer? I haven't noticed much particularly obnoxious in his posts, and even if you don't agree with what he says I really can't see any evidence that he's writing in bad faith. The reaction to some pretty reasonable posts is so over the top, and it's really annoying to see what I can only assume is beef from other discussions dragged up in this thread. His posts on this thread have been a good contribution which I've enjoyed reading, if there's something wrong with them then at least say what rather than just hurling insults for reasons difficult to fathom.
I was like you once. Give it time.
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