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Recent attacks in Iraq

weltweit said:
500 Britons fighting with ISIS according to the news.
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But there's another thinktank reckons there are no Britons fighting with ISIS (or anyone else) in Iraq...

Here we go:

Meanwhile, the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation and Political Violence (ICSR) said it did not believe there were British fighters in Iraq.

The ICSR, which uses social media to track jihadists' movements, said so far the only European jihadists fighting with Isis in Iraq were from the Balkans.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27947343
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ICSR is within War Studies at King's, which has v good spook links...
 
weltweit said:
I don't really understand the dynamic of the military situation. I have seen estimates that ISIS has 5,000 fighters but the Iraq army apparently has more than 100,000 so how is it that ISIS seems to move with impunity? it does not seem to make logical sense.
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Be honest you're not reading any posts on the thread are you?
 
[QUOTE="weltweit, post: 13220606, member: 32888"...why with only 5,000 can ISIS move with such impunity against much larger government forces?[/QUOTE]

because the official, paid Army doesn't want to fight ISIS - so it fucked off.

quite what proportions of the 'fcuk this for a game of soldiers..' decision is fear of ISIS, bad/non-existant Officers, bad training, not having been paid for 3 months, not feeling well enough equipped, not being prepared to die for Al-Maliki, or being the normal Iraqi army thats fine for intimidating civilians, but runs like the wind when faced with something scarier than Richmond-on-Thames School of Reki, i'm afraid i don't know- but its one/some/all of those things.

Army's can be large and well equipped, but if the individual soldiers and units won't fight, or the Army's command and control is in chaos or non-existant, then having numbers is of no use whatsoever.

my suspicion is that the Iraqi Army has been used by Al-Maliki as a source of patronage and political support within the Shia community, a source of jobs, corrupt income and prestige for those who'se support he needs, rather than the hard work, repititive training and exercises, vigorous selection and promotion based on merit that is the only way to build an army that will fight rather than run away.
 
weltweit said:
I don't really understand the dynamic of the military situation. I have seen estimates that ISIS has 5,000 fighters but the Iraq army apparently has more than 100,000 so how is it that ISIS seems to move with impunity? it does not seem to make logical sense.
Click to expand...

I've seen some interviews with Iraqi soldiers saying that they were ordered to abandon their bases and withdraw from the towns ahead of the attacks.

Also reports stating that the Iraqi army garrisons were ordered to hand over their posts to kurdish peshmerger fighters.

It looks to me as if some senior figures in the army are giving orders that's effectively conceding the partitioning of Iraq along tribal lines while the politicians dither, or I guess potentially just corruption.

Definitely looks to be more going on though than just Iraqi soldiers being too scared to fight.
 
butchersapron said:
Someone whose read the thread wouldn't ask such a daft question or pose such a daft scenario. Read the thread.
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As it happens, not only have I been reading the thread, but I have also been posting to it as well, some of those posts having been responded to by yourself!
 
weltweit said:
As it happens, not only have I been reading the thread, but I have also been posting to it as well, some of those posts having been responded to by yourself!
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What he's saying is that you appear to have missed a common theme of the thread which is that this is a more general Sunni uprising against a sectarian Shia government rather than the exclusively ISIS (too extreme for Al-Qaeda themed) uprising which it is being portrayed as in the meeja.
 
kebabking said:
because the official, paid Army doesn't want to fight ISIS - so it fucked off.
Click to expand...
Well ISIS certainly seems to be putting the frighteners on its enemies with all their executions etc
kebabking said:
quite what proportions of the 'fcuk this for a game of soldiers..' decision is fear of ISIS, bad/non-existant Officers, bad training, not having been paid for 3 months, not feeling well enough equipped, not being prepared to die for Al-Maliki, or being the normal Iraqi army thats fine for intimidating civilians, but runs like the wind when faced with something scarier than Richmond-on-Thames School of Reki, i'm afraid i don't know- but its one/some/all of those things.

Army's can be large and well equipped, but if the individual soldiers and units won't fight, or the Army's command and control is in chaos or non-existant, then having numbers is of no use whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Yes I am sure that is true, they basically aren't up to the job.

kebabking said:
my suspicion is that the Iraqi Army has been used by Al-Maliki as a source of patronage and political support within the Shia community, a source of jobs, corrupt income and prestige for those who'se support he needs, rather than the hard work, repititive training and exercises, vigorous selection and promotion based on merit that is the only way to build an army that will fight rather than run away.
Click to expand...
I wonders if 300 US advisers will be able to dent the prevailing mood ..
 
J Ed said:
What he's saying is that you appear to have missed a common theme of the thread which is that this is a more general Sunni uprising against a sectarian Shia government rather than the exclusively ISIS (too extreme for Al-Qaeda themed) uprising which it is being portrayed as in the meeja.
Click to expand...
Well that is possibly true, but I am coming round to the idea that this is a Sunni thing, including Baathists who were used to being top dog but under the current regime have lost their influence.
 
weltweit said:
Well that is possibly true, but I am coming round to the idea that this is a Sunni thing, including Baathists who were used to being top dog but under the current regime have lost their influence.
Click to expand...

Sure, and that's the general point, the number of ISIS fighters is pretty low and it's ridiculous to suggest that that sort of number of fighters could rout the Iraqi army without significant participation from other groups.
 
J Ed said:
Sure, and that's the general point, the number of ISIS fighters is pretty low and it's ridiculous to suggest that that sort of number of fighters could rout the Iraqi army without significant participation from other groups.
Click to expand...
But my understanding was that in Mosul for example the Iraqi army just downed tools and ran ... they weren't routed they just left the scene before any fighting had commenced.
 
laptop said:
weltweit said:
500 Britons fighting with ISIS according to the news.
Click to expand...
But there's another thinktank reckons there are no Britons fighting with ISIS (or anyone else) in Iraq...

...

ICSR is within War Studies at King's, which has v good spook links...
Click to expand...

Here we go...

Met Assistant Commissioner Cressida Dick said the conflict represented a "long-term" terrorist threat.
...
Ms Dick said that until a few weeks ago police believed around 460 Britons had gone to fight in Syria, but said the figure could now have climbed to around 500.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27960816
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Which, if true, makes ICSR's assessment a little puzzling, since the whole point of ISIS is not to recognise a difference between Syria and Iraq and to make the border porous.
 
Last edited:
weltweit said:
I wonders if 300 US advisers will be able to dent the prevailing mood ..
Click to expand...
I doubt they'll be able to to a damn thing, except help defend the Shia areas that ISIS has no chance of taking anyway, and inflaming the Sunni population even more.
 
lol @ all the calls for a more inclusive eyeraqi government. Yet no similar demands on Bahrain where Sunnis are rampant on keeping the shia down.
 
thriller said:
lol @ all the calls for a more inclusive eyeraqi government. Yet no similar demands on Bahrain where Sunnis are rampant on keeping the shia down.
Click to expand...

Grimly hilarious (kinda) also to see all the hype about "ISIS crucifies non Sunni's, chops hands off everyone else and orders women to stay home and Iraq to go back to the Dark Ages" being somewhat deflated by Iraqis on the news going back to Mosul saying they're willing to give it a go, and at least you don't get your car nicked under ISIS administration...
 
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