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Re-opening Schools?

Are you under the impression that these people decrying these effects now will somehow translate to increased resources to address the problem?
That their motivations for highlighting this issue are that they want to make sure the children get the support and treatment they need?

I’ll admit right now I’d be surprised at the credulity at believing those things.
 
Are you under the impression that these people decrying these effects now will somehow translate to increased resources to address the problem?
That their motivations for highlighting this issue are that they want to make sure the children get the support and treatment they need?

I’ll admit right now I’d be surprised at the credulity at believing those things.

If you've read that into what I've written that says more about you than about me. A conversation, rather than a wish to appear right by attempting to patronise me, might go something like, ah you work in CAMHS, you might have some experience in this area, sounds like it must be really tough right now. What do you think the right thing to do is re. schools and isolation? And I would say, I don't know, but it seems clearer that we're talking about a balance of harms here, and the current situation seems unsustainable. I know it's not urban not to know, but as most of us are middle-aged these days, it would be a better place for it.



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But there has been a huge amplification of existing mental health difficulties and a doubling of referrals and waiting times is an unmanageable situation.
Yes, which makes it all the hypocrisy and lies and exploitation and gaslighting about the previous state even more frustrating.

It's no different to their attitude towards the rest of the NHS I suppose, or... well pretty much everything. If you could run things on crocodile tears the country would be booming.
 
Yes, which makes it all the hypocrisy and lies and exploitation and gaslighting about the previous state even more frustrating.

It's no different to their attitude towards the rest of the NHS I suppose, or... well pretty much everything. If you could run things on crocodile tears the country would be booming.

I don't pay any attention to them, we know that they lie. That still leaves questions about balance of harms in the context that we have not as we would wish it to be.
 
If you've read that into what I've written that says more about you than about me. A conversation, rather than a wish to appear right by attempting to patronise me, might go something like, ah you work in CAMHS, you might have some experience in this area, sounds like it must be really tough right now. What do you think the right thing to do is re. schools and isolation? And I would say, I don't know, but it seems clearer that we're talking about a balance of harms here, and the current situation seems unsustainable. I know it's not urban not to know, but as most of us are middle-aged these days, it would be a better place for it.



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You should go ahead and have that discussion.
With some awareness of how this situation is being misused and to what ends. “so what” didn’t read like an adequate acknowledgment of this backdrop.
 
What’s the problem? Red cat seems to want to have a discussion of something - and somehow felt I was stopping it - which I’m not, and apparently that needs spelling out.

As someone who has been supporting people who need support from the nhs mental health services, and have needed them myself, I’m fucking sick of seeing our situation weaponised, presented as a reason to end all lockdown measures, by people who didn’t give us a second thought until spring 2020. It bears slightly more acknowledgment than “so what”.

So, what’s to be done about the state of camhs, halfway through 2021?
 
I work right on the interface between these two entitles, and what I see is a mental health system that has been not just brought to its knees, but kept there, indefinitely, for as long as I have had anything to do with mental health (which, at 30 years and counting, is far too fucking long).

Most of the people I meet in the field, both in my own field of counselling, and amongst my counterparts in the mainstream mental health services, are fabulous, wonderful, committed, lovely people who got into it because they cared. The tragedy of the situation is that these people are forced into a system that has, by virtue of its acute shortage of resources, to try to find reasons why not to treat people, rather than focus on how they could. And that's damaging and dangerous, both for the people involved, and for the potential patients.

Under the umbrella of the organisation I work for, we have an eating disorder service. We try, within the constraints of our funding, to operate a system which doesn't have the institutional cliff edges of S-CAMHS (the NHS eating disorder service) - we don't boot our clients out on their 18th birthday, to a notional - but functionally non-existent - adult eating disorder service, nor do we operate the rigid BMI criteria applicable in NHS offerings. Because life isn't like that - people don't stop having eating disorders when they hit 18, or because they've got their BMI above 17. And nobody working in specialist CAMHS thinks so, either - but they're bound by a system which forces them to justify dropping clients - many still in need - because it's beyond their control.

CAMHS needs funding commensurate with the demands placed on it. You don't reduce demand by reducing funding, and there is a LOT of need out there. There was a lot before Covid - but I think there has been a step jump in need through the lockdowns (and we're seeing that coming through in spades in our adult general counselling service). The platitudes of Government, and the desperate attempts to square the circle at the coalface are no longer going to mix metaphors, or paper over the cracks.

If ever there was a service that needed money throwing at it, it's CAMHS. Novel though it may seem, investing in child mental health IS an investment, because if you can address problems at that stage, you can deal with stuff which both becomes harder to treat as time goes on, but also results in significant additional costs to society - the price we pay for mental health-driven crime, damage, violence, policing is a lot higher than I think we realise, and a lot of that could be addressed by providing proactive, pre-emptive resources aimed at improving mental health wellbeing in the young. It'd pay dividends, and I'd go so far as to say that no amount of money spent on that would be excessive.

ETA: this flowed rather freely, on account of the fact that I have a meeting on Tuesday with a Rather Senior Person in NHS Wales to try and secure some funding for our ED service, and I have been, ahahaha, rehearsing my arguments :)
 
Our most recent patient zero has now realised she was probably symptomatic last Friday (and then went to a house party on Saturday, and to school on Monday). Having already sent the party guests and her Monday contacts home to isolate, (about a third of y12, one of whom himself then tested positive, so we lost another ten or so) we were now faced with the likelihood that on Friday she’d had contact with yet more students, though she can’t remember who. So we’ve given up and sent the whole sixth form home for the remaining week since last Friday, on advice of public health England.)

I made a thing for our Instagram, to try and get the little sods to resist playing superspreader.

View attachment IMG_9224.MP4
 
Daughter just rang me (obviously with a staff member) to ask permission to go home as someone in her class has or potentially has COVID. Seems daft keeping schools open now, just send them home until September.
Daughter's classmate HAS got Covid. Class isolating until July 5th. Daughter tested negative yesterday, me todsy, will be keeping an eye on her. Means I'm stuck WFH while she's here.
 
Sure, I understand that but in a way so what? We know that already. But there is also the reality of camhs in crisis.
Totally - we had an assessment after 15 months but are now in limbo waiting for treatment - they can’t tell us how long the waiting list is !!!
 
I’m hoping as it is SLAM who have a pretty good reputation from what I hear that it won’t be too clunky !!

Servies are always changing, I don't know what transition might be like in SLAM but there's a lot more understanding of the difficulties of this transition hence the growth of 0-25 years services. I'd expect SLAM to be fairly forward in their thinking but how that translates to practice isn't possible for me to say. You can call and ask to speak to the assessing clinician, they should be your point of contact until your daughter is allocated a keyworker.
 
Yes, total silence. Everything around schools seems to have just gone full on emperor's new clothes now - it's insane.
The sad thing is that its insane in a very unsurprising way - the sort of standard business as usual insanity which passes for sanity around these parts. The stuff we'e had to learn to deal with throughout our lives, establishment priorities, sold to the masses via the press.

So the dereliction of duty of which I spoke is really a joke, based on myths about what the duty of the 'free press' is. In terms of their actual duty, they've een pretty much on message throughout. Limited windows of opportunity for limited dissent, eg during the period when the original establishment plan A was dying on its arse. Or journalists succumbing to lockdown fatigue well before everyone else.

In past waves when things were deteriorating, media coverage of things like the hospital situation, featuring desperate interviews with health professionals and grim scenes from intensive care wards, were flipped on and off at specific moments in time. The establishment hopes to avoid having to flip that switch again this time, and so we have very muted coverage of this wave so far. Only if things go very bad are we likely to see the medias mood music changing back to a familiar pandemic doom tune.
 
It is noticeable how quiet the media are. Also the politicians have (more) blood on their hands here.

My test centres have gone from 2/3% to 12/15% positive results over the last two weeks. Lot's of double vaccinated people coming to get tests for work/events/football/etc. are testing positive now. They are likely to be fine but have been out and about all over the shop.

Kids and staff are in and out of a lot of schools like Yo-Yos :( yet the paper headlines will be about earlier easing of restrictions and full of travel adverts.

The #JohnsonVariant is an issue.
 
So no need for isolation, yet I've had a message from my daughters school saying that Public Health have informed the school that pupils need to keep isolating until next week due to the high numbers of Year 7s testing positive this week. They have all been off school since last week, so I presume this is pupils who have tested positive whilst being off school (who without isolation would be in!!)
 
So what's their plan/excuse when this kind of bullshit helps the virus mutate further and make their much-vaunted vaccines less effective? Tunnel-visioned fucking ghouls.
They'll just deny schools had anything to do with it. They'll bend and warp whatever modelling they can get their hands on to cherrypick in support of that claim. This government inhabits a moral and ethical vacuum.
 
Complete dereliction of 'duty' in terms of the mass media covering that chaos. Can only trust the media to sing from the approved hymn sheet at this stage of the pandemic it seems.
Ah I see they woke up about the disruption, but there is nice safe establishment framing in terms of looking ahead to next term and the abandonment of isolation rules.


At least it is currently the top story on the BBC news website.

Screenshot 2021-06-29 at 15.34.jpg
 
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