PursuedByBears
Go stick your head in a pig
cf. Roman Polanski
Rape, sexual assault and harassment in the entertainment industry
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
true - but he essentially co-parented her with mia farrow. he didn't meet her as an adult - he was there from when she was about 6 i think.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Women's voices being shouted down if they deviate from the official 'grab yer pitchforks' party line seems to be a common problem. If anything I'd say you're more likely to become the latest victim of a twitter pile-on as a woman calling for moderation than as a man openly defending abusers.
Assault is not a feeling. The Aziz Ansari story shows why language matters | Tiffany Wright
...this woman makes the point that many people started attacking her after only reading two tweets from a long thread. There's an attention span issue here I think, where ideas being reduced to tweets or clickbait headlines leads people to see everything as highly polarised between good and evil.
I don't think this rush to anger helps victims of abuse, and I don't think it helps men analyse and change their own behaviour. I hate to mention it but Aziz Ansari dealt with this on his own TV show, with his character being pilloried because of his association with someone who later turned out to be a creepy cunt. It was all done a bit ham-fistedly but there was at least an attempt there to look at the dynamics of these public exposure situations without discrediting victims or letting men off the hook.
Even now I'm trying to find a form of words that can't be misread as a defence of Ansari's behaviour. I just think there has to be a better approach to supporting victims, whose voices are often lost in the hullabaloo, and improving the behaviour of men in general. That may require an acceptance of the idea that in some cases people can do bad things without necessarily having bad intentions. So far a lot of public apologies (or not-apologies) have focussed on intentions, not consequences. That is clearly something that needs to change, but I think airing all this out in public encourages people to be defensive in that way. This doesn't help the victim find closure and doesn't give the perpetrator any motive to genuinely hold themself accountable or analyse their own behaviour.
But my views are vague, conflicted and ultimately irrelevant. We should be listening to women, not shouting them down because we can't be bothered to process subtle concepts or read more than three sentences in a row.
Assault is not a feeling. The Aziz Ansari story shows why language matters | Tiffany Wright
...this woman makes the point that many people started attacking her after only reading two tweets from a long thread. There's an attention span issue here I think, where ideas being reduced to tweets or clickbait headlines leads people to see everything as highly polarised between good and evil.
I don't think this rush to anger helps victims of abuse, and I don't think it helps men analyse and change their own behaviour. I hate to mention it but Aziz Ansari dealt with this on his own TV show, with his character being pilloried because of his association with someone who later turned out to be a creepy cunt. It was all done a bit ham-fistedly but there was at least an attempt there to look at the dynamics of these public exposure situations without discrediting victims or letting men off the hook.
Even now I'm trying to find a form of words that can't be misread as a defence of Ansari's behaviour. I just think there has to be a better approach to supporting victims, whose voices are often lost in the hullabaloo, and improving the behaviour of men in general. That may require an acceptance of the idea that in some cases people can do bad things without necessarily having bad intentions. So far a lot of public apologies (or not-apologies) have focussed on intentions, not consequences. That is clearly something that needs to change, but I think airing all this out in public encourages people to be defensive in that way. This doesn't help the victim find closure and doesn't give the perpetrator any motive to genuinely hold themself accountable or analyse their own behaviour.
But my views are vague, conflicted and ultimately irrelevant. We should be listening to women, not shouting them down because we can't be bothered to process subtle concepts or read more than three sentences in a row.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yeah morally I agree with you.
I do like many of his films, but when I reflect on one of my favourites, Manhattan, and the relationship between a man in his mid-40s and a 17 year old girl, it's plainly so suspect that I must have been seriously stoopid to not think it was a bit sketchy when it was originally released. Just didn't think, ugh.
bimble
floofy
Your post made me think of this article. It takes more than 2 seconds to read and I am not saying I entirely agree with her, I find myself really conflicted, but its a brave piece of writing for a woman to have published, in the current climate:
("This article circulated from publication to publication, like old-fashioned samizdat, and was rejected repeatedly with a sotto voce, “Don’t tell anyone. I agree with you. But no.” Friends have urged me not to publish it under my own name, vividly describing the mob that will tear me from limb to limb and leave the dingoes to pick over my flesh.."
The Warlock Hunt - The American Interest
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
I don't think he did. They never lived together and didn't have much to do with her until she was in her late teens and mia wanted them to get to know each other better. And we know how that turned out.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is entertainment industry stuff right?
Pope shocks Chile by accusing sex abuse victims of slander
Francis reopened the wounds of the scandal in 2015 when he named Barros, a protege of Karadima, as bishop of the southern diocese of Osorno. Karadima’s victims say Barros knew of the abuse, having seen it, but did nothing. Barros has denied the allegations.
His appointment outraged Chileans, badly divided the Osorno diocese and further undermined the church’s already shaky credibility in the country.
Francis had sought to heal the wounds by meeting this week with abuse victims and begging forgiveness for the crimes of church pastors. But on Thursday, he struck a defiant tone when asked by a Chilean journalist about Barros.
“The day they bring me proof against Bishop Barros, I’ll speak,” Francis said. “There is not one shred of proof against him. It’s all calumny. Is that clear?”
Pope shocks Chile by accusing sex abuse victims of slander
Francis reopened the wounds of the scandal in 2015 when he named Barros, a protege of Karadima, as bishop of the southern diocese of Osorno. Karadima’s victims say Barros knew of the abuse, having seen it, but did nothing. Barros has denied the allegations.
His appointment outraged Chileans, badly divided the Osorno diocese and further undermined the church’s already shaky credibility in the country.
Francis had sought to heal the wounds by meeting this week with abuse victims and begging forgiveness for the crimes of church pastors. But on Thursday, he struck a defiant tone when asked by a Chilean journalist about Barros.
“The day they bring me proof against Bishop Barros, I’ll speak,” Francis said. “There is not one shred of proof against him. It’s all calumny. Is that clear?”
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
ah - maybe i miss -remembered the details. I remember thinking it was pretty dodge at the time and noted the "polanski pass" he was given - even more so after Dylan Farrow allegations.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Catholic church in 'defending nonces' shocker.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
I just don't know what to think. Woody and Mia's other adopted son Moses vehemently defends Woody and claims that after the split up Mia fostered an atmosphere of "fear and hate towards him" in the household. And that he wasn't sure if Dylan went along with the allegations because to be on the wrong side of Mia was horrible.
On the other side their biological son Ronan is adamant the assault did happen. Dylan too claims she can recall it, and that it's not a false memory.
Mia Farrow has hinted that Ronan is Frank Sinatra's son as she carried on seeing him whilst in a relationship with woody. It's a tangled web over there in Central Park
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RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
www.ronanfarrowletter.wordpress.com/2018/01/04/moses-farrow-speaks-out/
He seems to pull no punches. Neither does his twitter account. He's basically accusing Mia Farrow - his own mother - not only of brainwashing and manipulation, but also of abuse herself. That he himself is a qualified marriage and family therapist makes this even more perturbing to me.
I too can't fully decide whether Allen is guilty or not (despite two police investigation which resulted in no charges being brought) or whether he's the recipient of Mia Farrow's wrath over what happened with Soon-Yi Previn. All very messy and rather unsavoury stuff.
He seems to pull no punches. Neither does his twitter account. He's basically accusing Mia Farrow - his own mother - not only of brainwashing and manipulation, but also of abuse herself. That he himself is a qualified marriage and family therapist makes this even more perturbing to me.
I too can't fully decide whether Allen is guilty or not (despite two police investigation which resulted in no charges being brought) or whether he's the recipient of Mia Farrow's wrath over what happened with Soon-Yi Previn. All very messy and rather unsavoury stuff.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I don't think it stops it being skeevy to the point that you wouldn't want your daughters to be around Woody or his friends.
If you got together with a woman and she had a teenage daughter, would you consider that daughter as a potential partner for you? Probably not, right? OK, if you had one date with the Mum and the daughter was as new to you as the Mum was, then it wouldn't be that weird (apart from the age difference, but that's a different topic). Add in the extra details, like you at the very least knowing about this kid as your GF's daughter from when she was very little, and the kid growing up with your own kids as their sibling, because you'd been seeing the Mum for a long time, and it definitely crosses the line into really fucking creepy. And that's with the most generous possible view of how much he knew his wife when she was a child and he was an adult who was dating her mother.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I had to look up 'skeevy'!
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
I find the Ansari story the most optimistic part of the whole #metoo phenomena.
Notwithstanding that rape and sexual assault are under-reported and that legal processes are often flawed, rape is fairly uncontentiously bad.
But shitty intomate behaviour? Pushing boundaries and disrespecting your partner? That's never really been a conversation in society. I'm not confused or hysterical. Ansari isn't evil. He's not a fucking feminist (as he used to claim) but he's not a monster. He's just a bit of a shit who, when getting intimate with a (very young, but still adult) woman, showed nauseating levels of entitlement. Lots of people do that. Celebrities do it in other ways, throwing hissy fits on set. Managers do it in the workplace. Our in laws do it... but for some reason, when it is male sexual entitlement, we keep quiet. Collude in their disrespect of us and don't share our grievances with family or friends.
Why? Partly because growing up in a patriarchy makes it hard to talk about sex as a woman without feeling shame.
But NOT talking about it hasn't worked out very well. If we want to undo a culture of male sexual entitlement, we have to get angry, and talk about people who treat us like shit.
Notwithstanding that rape and sexual assault are under-reported and that legal processes are often flawed, rape is fairly uncontentiously bad.
But shitty intomate behaviour? Pushing boundaries and disrespecting your partner? That's never really been a conversation in society. I'm not confused or hysterical. Ansari isn't evil. He's not a fucking feminist (as he used to claim) but he's not a monster. He's just a bit of a shit who, when getting intimate with a (very young, but still adult) woman, showed nauseating levels of entitlement. Lots of people do that. Celebrities do it in other ways, throwing hissy fits on set. Managers do it in the workplace. Our in laws do it... but for some reason, when it is male sexual entitlement, we keep quiet. Collude in their disrespect of us and don't share our grievances with family or friends.
Why? Partly because growing up in a patriarchy makes it hard to talk about sex as a woman without feeling shame.
But NOT talking about it hasn't worked out very well. If we want to undo a culture of male sexual entitlement, we have to get angry, and talk about people who treat us like shit.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
Woody Allen is an odd one. I adore his films, and his stand up is the funniest i've ever heard. That's why i really researched the situation before making judgement about his character - and my jury is still out.
However, even Lena Dunham, when she was mouthing off a few years ago, said that she totally disassociates his work with the man know, and can still love his films (this was before the Weinstein so i don't know whether to consensus terrorism in the social media feminist movement allows his films to be watched still).
It is pretty shabby of all these actors who worked with him over the last 25 years to come out now and say how they regret it, when they all knew the allegations at the time. Simply because its a "trending topic" now.
I am a fan of Michael Jackson also, and looked into it before making judgements, and i concluded he was guilty as sin. But i still listen to Thriller and Off the Wall
However, even Lena Dunham, when she was mouthing off a few years ago, said that she totally disassociates his work with the man know, and can still love his films (this was before the Weinstein so i don't know whether to consensus terrorism in the social media feminist movement allows his films to be watched still).
It is pretty shabby of all these actors who worked with him over the last 25 years to come out now and say how they regret it, when they all knew the allegations at the time. Simply because its a "trending topic" now.
I am a fan of Michael Jackson also, and looked into it before making judgements, and i concluded he was guilty as sin. But i still listen to Thriller and Off the Wall
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I do think we need to recognise the middle ground between the (probably mythical) 'decent guy' and irredeemable monsters like Weinstein. Men, young men in particular, need to be aware that simply not being a rapist is not the standard we need to aim for. They also need to realise that doing a shitty thing does not mean you are inherently evil, and it certainly doesn't mean you can't do better in future or that there is nothing you can do to mitigate the consequences of your behaviour.
A piece that's missing from the puzzle is a man openly taking responsibility for his actions. What's needed is someone to respond to an accusation not with excuses or denials or some cringing, mitigated pseudo-apology but with a simple, 'what she says is true, it was wrong and I'm sorry'. Just to show others that it is possible to say those words in that order. There must be someone out there waiting for his number to come up, for the shitty thing he did to be revealed to the world at large. My advice to that guy, get out in front of it. Take responsibility. Save whoever it is you've hurt from putting themselves through more grief just to get some recognition and understanding of what happened to them.
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D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
The problem with the modern world is that these hot-button issues become all encompassing in the social media and celeb world - "sexual assault is so hot right now" - that they then inevitably drop off and in a year or so it will be business as usual.
You hear fuck all about #BLM now - its all #METOO currently.
Not that there's any answer to this - human nature innit. Anyone wanna buy a box of fidget spinners?
You hear fuck all about #BLM now - its all #METOO currently.
Not that there's any answer to this - human nature innit. Anyone wanna buy a box of fidget spinners?
rekil
to menny cranks
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
This speech by Aly Raisman is incredible: Stand up for Aly Raisman in fight to purge the horrors of Larry Nassar | Marina Hyde
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
I didn't find it in the least bit excellent.
The Octagon
Stop...Hammertime
Opinion | This Is Why Uma Thurman Is Angry
Uma Thurman’s interview, a hard read at times, especially with the video of her crash during Kill Bill.
Uma Thurman’s interview, a hard read at times, especially with the video of her crash during Kill Bill.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
We can't all like the same things. Would be a boring world if we did...
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Tarantino is now getting a kicking, quite rightly, for his behaviour towards Thurman on the Kill Bill set
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Terry Gilliam has been scoffing at the #MeToo movement and then been called out by Ellen Barkin:
Ellen Barkin tweets accusation against Terry Gilliam after director's #MeToo comments
Ellen Barkin tweets accusation against Terry Gilliam after director's #MeToo comments
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
The brass balls of these fellas...
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