Pubs we've lost 2014-2015: The Grosvenor, Stockwell and the Canterbury Arms, Brixton

[Brixton Hatter]

I'm pretty sure all the surrounding property - the half dozen three-storey houses on Sidney Road, and the half dozen three-storey (empty) houses round the corner on Aytoun Road - is owned by Golfrate (or whatever developer it is). The pub is now the only thing in their way. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to knock down the lot and put another massive apartment block on the site.

 

[editor]

I don't know a huge amount about punk but throwing the towel in at such an early stage, even before the lease expires, is not an action I would have associated with a venue with "punk in it's soul".

Go to the Grosvenor often, do you?

 

[astrogarage]

I'd definitely second the notion that the Grosvenor is a community pub, but it's something you'd probably only really understand if you spent a fair amount of time there. It's certainly not devoted to maximising profit above all else, and has possibly the most varied clientele I've ever come across. I wonder where these people will go when the place is turned into some bland gastropub patronised entirely by people under 30 who work in marketing.

 

[Rushy]

I can't see any application for the upstairs of the pub to be turned into self contained flats. Is it already?

I don't know a huge amount about punk but throwing the towel in at such an early stage, even before the lease expires, is not an action I would have associated with a venue with "punk in it's soul". Is it possible that a financial arrangement has been reached between the pub leaseholder and the freeholder?

Go to the Grosvenor often, do you?

Now now. There's no need to cock your leg all over the thread with non sequiturs. I am more than happy to bow to your knowledge of punk culture. If you insist that throwing the towel in even before the new places have been finished and years before the pub lease expires, with little more than a shrug and a rallying cry of "don't save the pub!" is a punk inspired response to the encroachment of capitalist driven gentrification, I will reluctantly take your word for it.

To an ill-informed bystander like myself it just looks remarkably like the usual scenario in which a freeholder wanting possession has offered cash in return for the leaseholder giving up the lease and quietly walking away.

 

[editor]

Now now. There's no need to cock your leg all over the thread with non sequiturs. I am more than happy to bow to your knowledge of punk culture. If you insist that throwing the towel in even before the new places have been finished and years before the pub lease expires, with little more than a shrug and a rallying cry of "don't save the pub!" is a punk inspired response to the encroachment of capitalist driven gentrification, I will reluctantly take your word for it.

Why the fuck are you banging on and on about punk? It's a pub, but a musical genre.

 

[Rushy]

Why the fuck are you banging on and on about punk? It's a pub, but a musical genre.

Erm, sorry, what?

 

[cuppa tee]

Erm, sorry, what?

the pub hosts a number of punk nights but it's not exclusively a punk pub, as astrogarage has said the clientele is very diverse, even on the night of a punk gig you will find more senior gentlemen enjoying a quiet pint or three.
It has been host to diverse events from left wing film clubs to the Reay School parents disco.

 

[astrogarage]

yeah, i play jazz in the bar there every monday, more or less. and there's a folk session once a month, plus experimental/weird stuff, a ping pong night and all sorts. not just punk. it's (as far as I can work out) a pretty unique place. I'll be very sad to see it go.

 

[editor]

To an ill-informed bystander like myself it just looks remarkably like the usual scenario in which a freeholder wanting possession has offered cash in return for the leaseholder giving up the lease and quietly walking away.

If you're such a self confessed 'ill informed bystander' why do you bother to post up such ill informed and negative comments, then?

The way you've charged in to dismiss the integrity of the landlord from a position of sheer ignorance really is rather shameful, IMO. So do you go to the pub often? Have you ever been? If you did, you might gain an understanding of what the pub is about and find out the full story why it's closing.

 

[editor]

yeah, i play jazz in the bar there every monday, more or less. and there's a folk session once a month, plus experimental/weird stuff, a ping pong night and all sorts. not just punk. it's (as far as I can work out) a pretty unique place. I'll be very sad to see it go.

Agreed. The free Christmas brass concerts they did there were wonderful too.

 

[Rushy]

the pub hosts a number of punk nights but it's not exclusively a punk pub, as astrogarage has said the clientele is very diverse, even on the night of a punk gig you will find more senior gentlemen enjoying a quiet pint or three.
It has been host to diverse events from left wing film clubs to the Reay School parents disco.

Left Wing Film clubs (or any wing film clubs, frankly) aren't really my thing and I'd sadly(?) not qualify for a parent's disco. But the Brixton Ping Pong Society nights have been fun - might see some of you there next week? I've never been to a gig in there but mates have played there several times over the past years and an I only hear good things - unfortunately I've always been doing something else when they are on. I don't disagree that it's a unique pub or that it will be missed by many - rest assured, Cuppa, I've said nothing to suggest otherwise. There is nothing I like about seeing it go - especially with Golfrate being involved.

Ed mentioned that the landlord has decided to pack it in early because he can't put on noisy punk nights anymore. I said that didn't sound very in the spirit of punk. Which it isn't. Which isn't really important or worth anyone getting worked up about. But this is Urbz. So it means that I said the venue deserves to have a bomb dropped on it.

I don't doubt that it could continue in many of it's various current guises - even many of the musical ones - even if there eventually had to be some compromise on the later noisier ones. The Effra manages it very well and is rammed most nights of the week. That's why I don't think we've got the whole story. Who just closes down and walks away from a valuable lease to a popular pub years early because they are worried that they might get some complaints about some of their noisier events somewhere down the line?

It would seem churlish, short sighted and unreasonable to me for anyone to suggest that the landlord lacked integrity if he sold the last few years of his lease back to the freeholder. But given that there are apparently years left on it, and no one appears to have heard anything about anyone having been asked whether they'd like to take it over, and that it's fairly normal practice, I rather suspect that it is possible that this could be what has happened. As happened at Mango Landing.

 

[Rushy]

If you're such a self confessed 'ill informed bystander' why do you bother to post up such ill informed and negative comments, then?

I'll save this wonderful comment for later use .

Although on second thoughts, you would have to admit to being ill-informed about whatever you happened to ranting about. Damn.

 

[editor]

Ed mentioned that the landlord has decided to pack it in early because he can't put on noisy punk nights anymore. I said that didn't sound very in the spirit of punk. Which it isn't.

Not sure what you know about 'the spirit of punk' or why it seems central to every post you make about the Grosvenor, but let me try and explain again.

The landlord has no wish to see the pub turn into a neutered, travesty of itself (which is most certainly what will happen once the apartments open up), so has elected to leave it on a high. And I respect him for that.

I don't expect you to understand that seeing as you've never been to any gigs there, but I imagine that those who have fully understand his reasons.

 

[editor]

It would seem churlish, short sighted and unreasonable to me for anyone to suggest that the landlord lacked integrity if he sold the last few years of his lease back to the freeholder. But given that there are apparently years left on it, and no one appears to have heard anything about anyone having been asked whether they'd like to take it over, and that it's fairly normal practice, I rather suspect that it is possible that this could be what has happened. As happened at Mango Landing.

The landlord was offered the opportunity to run the pub under Golfrate.

And, as I have explained, he declined because he did not want to see his pub turned into something that would be a watered-down parody of what it's been for the last 20 years. You can get as sneery as you like, but I respect that attitude more than anything you've come up with here.

Oh, and..

Although on second thoughts, you would have to admit to being ill-informed about whatever you happened to ranting about. Damn.

Grow up, ffs.

 

[Rushy]

Not sure what you know about 'the spirit of punk' or why it seems central to every post you make about the Grosvenor, but let me try and explain again.

The landlord has no wish to see the pub turn into a neutered, travesty of itself (which is most certainly what will happen once the apartments open up), so has elected to leave it on a high. And I respect him for that.

What about all the other users who would never cause a disturbance problem? Like the film nights. Jazz nights. Ping Pong nights. Folk nights. Elderly gentlemen just having a drink. I'm sorry. What you are saying sounds like nonsense.

 

[editor]

What about all the other users who would never cause a disturbance problem? Like the film nights. Jazz nights. Ping Pong nights. Folk nights. Elderly gentlemen just having a drink. I'm sorry. What you are saying sounds like nonsense.

Midweek ping pong nights and indie film showings won't keep the pub in business, silly, and the folk nights -which you've never attended - can be quite loud too.

And if it's busy, there'll be people in the smoking area outside and that's one of the areas where the complaints will come from.

 

[Rushy]

The landlord was offered the opportunity to run the pub under Golfrate.

And, as I have explained, he declined because he did not want to see his pub turned into something that would be a watered-down parody of what it's been for the last 20 years. You can get as sneery as you like, but I respect that attitude more than anything you've come up with here.

Oh, and..
Grow up, ffs.

Golfrate bought the freehold subject to his lease. He is running it under Golfrate and has been since they bought it. The change in freeholder does not change the lease he owns. The only way Golfrate can get the lease back is if he breaks the terms of the lease e.g. does not pay, or he voluntarily sells it to them, or he simply walks away form it. You are seriously saying that he chose to walk away from it, handing Golfrate a valuable asset for nothing? Really?

 

[editor]

Golfrate bought the freehold subject to his lease. He is running it under Golfrate and has been since they bought it. The change in freeholder does not change the lease he owns. The only way Golfrate can get the lease back is if he breaks the terms of the lease e.g. does not pay, or he voluntarily sells it to them, or he simply walks away form it. You are seriously saying that he chose to walk away from it, handing Golfrate a valuable asset for nothing? Really?

Why don't you go up and ask him instead of posting up your self confessed 'ill-informed' opinions?

You know what really fucks me off here? That's the fact that you're prepared to disrupt this thread about the end of a well loved pub and cast aspersions on the integrity of the owner as an excuse to have another pop at me.

It's pathetic and I've no interest in playing along.

 

[Rushy]

Why don't you go up and ask him instead of posting up your self confessed 'ill-informed' opinions?

You know what really fucks me off here? That's the fact that you're prepared to disrupt this thread about the end of a well loved pub and cast aspersions on the integrity of the owner as an excuse to have another pop at me.

It's pathetic and I've no interest in playing along.

I'm not casting aspersions about his integrity as I don't think it would show a lack of integrity if he had sold the remainder back to Golfrate. You're the one who is judging. As far as I'm concerned, it's his lease. It is up to him what he decides to do with it. I just don't think your story makes sense. And now that you have said you're not playing and taken your toys home, I rather suspect you are struggling to come up with a good reason why he would have given away a valuable asset to Golfrate for nothing.

Of course Brixton Hatter may have been wrong and the lease is simply expiring? Is that possible BH?

 

[leanderman]

I don't buy the editor's narrative here.

But it would be sad if the pub shut.

 

[editor]

I don't buy the editor's narrative here.

Oh, so why is the landlord leaving, then? Be sure to post up the details.

 

[editor]

Golfrate bought the freehold subject to his lease. He is running it under Golfrate and has been since they bought it. The change in freeholder does not change the lease he owns. The only way Golfrate can get the lease back is if he breaks the terms of the lease e.g. does not pay, or he voluntarily sells it to them, or he simply walks away form it. You are seriously saying that he chose to walk away from it, handing Golfrate a valuable asset for nothing? Really?

Why don't you go ask him instead of just posting up your your "ill informed" guesses, slurs and opinions about how you don't think he's "punk rock"?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Of course Brixton Hatter may have been wrong and the lease is simply expiring? Is that possible BH?

You'll need to ask the landlord about the specifics of the lease.

The impression I got when I spoke to him was that he had some time left on the lease. But this was a while ago.

 

[leanderman]

Oh, so why is the landlord leaving, then? Be sure to post up the details.

I'd ask him if I had the chance.

But I am not buying the noise- neighbours-gentrification argument.

 

[editor]

But I am not buying the noise- neighbours-gentrification argument.

Really? So exactly what are you basing your opinion on? Do you go to the pub often? Why do you think he's leaving a successful pub that he loves right when the apartments are opening up opposite?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Of course, people like Rushy stand to make lots of cash out of developments like this, so it's hardly surprising he's trying to wind up editor about it.

 

[editor]

Press release for the Reel News gig earlier this week:

Those of you who know and love the Grosvenor will also know that we are about to lose the pub as we know it to property developers in July, who are building luxury flats opposite AND above it.
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/ai1ec_ev...ing-against-gentrification/?instance_id=69416

 

[leanderman]

Really? So exactly what are you basing your opinion on? Do you go to the pub often? Why do you think he's leaving a successful pub that he loves right when the apartments are opening up opposite?

I don't buy your argument. Sorry.

 

[leanderman]

Of course, people like Rushy stand to make lots of cash out of developments like this, so it's hardly surprising he's trying to wind up editor about it.

I don't think it's a wind-up. Exactly the same questions Rushy raised crossed my mind.

 

[editor]

I don't buy your argument. Sorry.

Yes, so you've said already. Can you answer my questions as to why you don't "buy" it, please?

When was the last time you were there? Have you ever spoken to the landlord? Why do you think he's leaving?

At least have the courage to say what you're basing your flippant dismissal of my comments on.