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Pubs we've lost 2014-2015: The Grosvenor, Stockwell and the Canterbury Arms, Brixton

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Brixton Hatter said:
Because it's a viable, money-making business and the landlord doesn't need to sell the (listed) building.
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He's already sold all his other ones (woodcock a etc round here) but does at least still run one that he lives in, in west Ken. Still the Taytos mind.
 
I want to know what needs to happen to ensure The Grovesnor is reopened and protected as a pub.

Am concerned that Pending Section 106 Obligation will mean that the plans are likely to be approved this time.

Plus the people already living in the new flats on the other side of Sidney Road will probably lodge noise complaints anyway
 
Just been sent this. Anyone know anything?

Hi there, I noticed yesterday there are workmen in the Grosvenor pub
in Sydney Road Stockwell and the under offer sign has come down. Any
word on what's going to happen to it? The bar is totally gutted.
Click to expand...
 
Received a letter today about another planning application for The Grosvenor. A rear side extension, part 1, part 2 storeys, for five "serviced units" - is that flats?
 
clandestino said:
Received a letter today about another planning application for The Grosvenor. A rear side extension, part 1, part 2 storeys, for five "serviced units" - is that flats?
Click to expand...

No. Technically it is the class that hotels and boarding houses fall into. Residential accommodation is C3. I'd be interested to know what their plan is in the longer term - Airbnb? I don't know how easy it is to change use from C1 to C3 retrospectively; this might be a foot in the door tactic. The planning application shows them as "market residential" units.

I'd also be interested in their draft heads of terms for the proposed lease, which isn't available with the application. This purports to show how the occupation wouldn't adversely affect a viable business below. Maybe occupants of serviced units don't accrue the same rights, or maybe if occupiers are short term lets they won't have time to see through a complaint.

link to application here: 17/01861/FUL | Erection of a part 1, part 2 storey rear /side extension to existing public house at ground floor level (Use Class A4) and to existing ancillary accommodation at first floor level to provide 5 serviced units (Use Class C1) at first and second floor levels, together with alterations to the fenestrations and the provision of refuse, recycling and cycle storages. | The Grosvenor Arms 17 Sidney Road London SW9 0TP
 
editor said:
So it seems that JHD Bars (who they?) want to taker over the Grosvenor if I've understood this document. Can anyone clarify?

https://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onl...9/pdf/17_01861_FUL-HEADS_OF_TERMS-1900280.pdf

This seems to be the guy behind the venture
Online Services - Company Summary
Hamna Wakaf Ltd v London Borough of Lambeth and Another: FTTGRC 19 Jul 2016 - swarb.co.uk
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Just to alarm you - the person behind JHD Bars seems to be James Hopkinson, whose company address is given as 20-22 Wenlock Road London N1 7GU

Don't know anything at all about Mr Hopkinson, but his registered address is flagged up by Companies House itself as being connected with "bogus multi million pound companies forced into liquidation. High Court orders six more bogus multi-million pound companies into liquidation - GOV.UK

One really should be more careful with one's company formations people!
 
If I've read this right, there's been another planning refusal for the Grosvenor owners. Can anyone clarify?

2017-09-05_155255.jpg
 
editor lefteri
Haven't had time to look up the planning appeal result, but from this CAMRA email it seems the developer has now got everything they wanted:

From: Geoff Strawbridge
Sent: 10 October, 2017 15:43

Subject: END OF THE ROAD FOR THE GROSVENOR
Rex,
Sadly predictable, three years since the pub was so thoroughly gutted that nobody was likely to pay the asking price. Equally predictable is that once they’ve got the flats occupied, as in the case of the Beehive in Crossford Street, they’ll find no takers for the ‘pub’ and eventually get Condition 3 overturned. For that matter the ground floor could foreseeably be converted to car parking for the residents above. A classic Trojan Horse con in the making and a slap in the teeth for the Planning Applications Committee which had belatedly stood firm in support of their updated pub protection policy when they realised at last what was going on all over the borough.
I think we did all we could along the way. Had the local music lovers remained passionate and vocal, there might just have been a chance. As it is, the prohibition on live music in the pub runs very much against the trend of policy towards adoption of the ‘Agent of Change’ principle. It might help if someone could tell the Planning Inspectorate about that.
Cheers!
Geoff.
Geoff Strawbridge

CAMRA Greater London Regional Director

Pubs Officer, CAMRA SW London Branch
 
CH1 said:
editor lefteri
Haven't had time to look up the planning appeal result, but from this CAMRA email it seems the developer has now got everything they wanted:

From: Geoff Strawbridge
Sent: 10 October, 2017 15:43

Subject: END OF THE ROAD FOR THE GROSVENOR
Rex,
Sadly predictable, three years since the pub was so thoroughly gutted that nobody was likely to pay the asking price. Equally predictable is that once they’ve got the flats occupied, as in the case of the Beehive in Crossford Street, they’ll find no takers for the ‘pub’ and eventually get Condition 3 overturned. For that matter the ground floor could foreseeably be converted to car parking for the residents above. A classic Trojan Horse con in the making and a slap in the teeth for the Planning Applications Committee which had belatedly stood firm in support of their updated pub protection policy when they realised at last what was going on all over the borough.
I think we did all we could along the way. Had the local music lovers remained passionate and vocal, there might just have been a chance. As it is, the prohibition on live music in the pub runs very much against the trend of policy towards adoption of the ‘Agent of Change’ principle. It might help if someone could tell the Planning Inspectorate about that.
Cheers!
Geoff.
Geoff Strawbridge

CAMRA Greater London Regional Director

Pubs Officer, CAMRA SW London Branch
Click to expand...
Is it OK to publish this letter? Or can you give me his email so I can ask?

I'm fucking gutted that these scumbags destroyed a beautiful pub.
 
editor said:
Is it OK to publish this letter? Or can you give me his email so I can ask?

I'm fucking gutted that these scumbags destroyed a beautiful pub.
Click to expand...
I removed the circulation list as some were email addresses.
I was hoping this would be OK, but I will pm you.
 
CH1 said:
editor lefteri
Haven't had time to look up the planning appeal result, but from this CAMRA email it seems the developer has now got everything they wanted:

From: Geoff Strawbridge
Sent: 10 October, 2017 15:43

Subject: END OF THE ROAD FOR THE GROSVENOR
Rex,
Sadly predictable, three years since the pub was so thoroughly gutted that nobody was likely to pay the asking price. Equally predictable is that once they’ve got the flats occupied, as in the case of the Beehive in Crossford Street, they’ll find no takers for the ‘pub’ and eventually get Condition 3 overturned. For that matter the ground floor could foreseeably be converted to car parking for the residents above. A classic Trojan Horse con in the making and a slap in the teeth for the Planning Applications Committee which had belatedly stood firm in support of their updated pub protection policy when they realised at last what was going on all over the borough.
I think we did all we could along the way. Had the local music lovers remained passionate and vocal, there might just have been a chance. As it is, the prohibition on live music in the pub runs very much against the trend of policy towards adoption of the ‘Agent of Change’ principle. It might help if someone could tell the Planning Inspectorate about that.
Cheers!
Geoff.
Geoff Strawbridge

CAMRA Greater London Regional Director

Pubs Officer, CAMRA SW London Branch
Click to expand...
Fuck that's a thoroughly depressing read
 
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