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Pubs we've lost 2014-2015: The Grosvenor, Stockwell and the Canterbury Arms, Brixton

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Rushy said:
The "Agent of Change" principle sounds broadly sensible - though quite difficult to prove in practice, for instance, e.g. if a sound system were beefed up / respositioned / turned up.
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A lot of clubs i play at have been made to attach "noise restricters" to there sound systems, This stops the volume rising above the permitted levels.Even a slight gain of bass or mid range will automatically decrease the overall volume. Lambeth have insisted that the venue must adhere to these measures or risk a license review.
 
SarfLondoner said:
A lot of clubs i play at have been made to attach "noise restricters" to there sound systems, This stops the volume rising above the permitted levels.Even a slight gain of bass or mid range will automatically decrease the overall volume. Lambeth have insisted that the venue must adhere to these measures or risk a license review.
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The Canterbury Arms has a noise limiter thing. If the noise goes over a certain level, the electricity for the room just shuts down. You have to keep your eye on a set of lights on the back wall - if they stay in the red, that's it. I've tripped the doomsday shut down a couple of times in there, and it takes a few minutes to get the electricity turned back on. On one very lively night, the crowd just carried on singing the song anyway. :D
 
SarfLondoner said:
A lot of clubs i play at have been made to attach "noise restricters" to there sound systems, This stops the volume rising above the permitted levels.Even a slight gain of bass or mid range will automatically decrease the overall volume. Lambeth have insisted that the venue must adhere to these measures or risk a license review.
Click to expand...
Are these local venues? Lambeth's noise control and licensing are pretty inconsistent about how they apply the rules. They certainly give people who have dealt with them the impression that they are pretty corrupt. Mass' licence required a limiter on each sound system but despite years of complaints after they upgraded the sound system they were never fitted. Yet smaller places and individuals get hammered on a single breach. Fridge Bar doesn't have a limiter either and until recently would blare music out the open doors until 5am mid week. At the end of the day, a limiter's sound levels are usually set by tests at the closest residential property so it seems a fairly pragmatic way of allowing places to stay open.
 
clandestino said:
The Canterbury Arms has a noise limiter thing. If the noise goes over a certain level, the electricity for the room just shuts down. You have to keep your eye on a set of lights on the back wall - if they stay in the red, that's it. I've tripped the doomsday shut down a couple of times in there, and it takes a few minutes to get the electricity turned back on. On one very lively night, the crowd just carried on singing the song anyway. :D
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Ive seen the traffic lights system:D its a joke, The one i described above is no better as you have to drop the mid and bass to get the volume to an audible level,not great when you are playing roots music. Then you spend half of your set explaining to unhappy punters why you cant raise the volume:(.
 
Rushy said:
Are these local venues? Lambeth's noise control and licensing are pretty inconsistent about how they apply the rules. They certainly give people who have dealt with them the impression that they are pretty corrupt. Mass' licence required a limiter on each sound system but despite years of complaints after they upgraded the sound system they were never fitted. Yet smaller places and individuals get hammered on a single breach. Fridge Bar doesn't have a limiter either and until recently would blare music out the open doors until 5am mid week. At the end of the day, a limiter's sound levels are usually set by tests at the closest residential property so it seems a fairly pragmatic way of allowing places to stay open.
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They are local and small in and around Brixton but since they opened (Apprx 2 years) the premises either side and above have been turned into flats in what was originally shops and a cafe.As soon as people moved in the complaints(many exagorated) started so the council insisted on sound controls and have been stern in enforcing this.The council originally issued a late entertainments license without a quibble nor any stipulation regarding noise,They have since added new requirements on noise levels and closing times.
If need be i will pm you the venue names.
 
SarfLondoner said:
They are local and small in and around Brixton but since they opened (Apprx 2 years) the premises either side and above have been turned into flats in what was originally shops and a cafe.As soon as people moved in the complaints(many exagorated) started so the council insisted on sound controls and have been stern in enforcing this.The council originally issued a late entertainments license without a quibble nor any stipulation regarding noise,They have since added new requirements on noise levels and closing times.
If need be i will pm you the venue names.
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I'd have thought the Agent of Change Principle would apply in cases like this (if we had it here). This is likely to become more common place as the rules governing conversions of shops and offices into flats have been relaxed. the onus would be on the "Agent of Change" to install sound insulation, etc..
 
Rushy said:
I'd have thought the Agent of Change Principle would apply in cases like this (if we had it here). This is likely to become more common place as the rules governing conversions of shops and offices into flats have been relaxed. the onus would be on the "Agent of Change" to install sound insulation, etc..
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I was going to add to my post that, the landlord of the flats has installed no sound proofing of any description but the venue has adhered to the councils wishes and as a result they have suffered financial losses because its no longer viable as a music venue.
 
SarfLondoner said:
I was going to add to my post that, the landlord of the flats has installed no sound proofing of any description but the venue has adhered to the councils wishes and as a result they have suffered financial losses because its no longer viable as a music venue.
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Building regs would require them to put something in but i don't think it would need to meet any more than normal resi standards. (Whether they put it in or not is a different matter).
 
SarfLondoner said:
Ive seen the traffic lights system:D its a joke, The one i described above is no better as you have to drop the mid and bass to get the volume to an audible level,not great when you are playing roots music. Then you spend half of your set explaining to unhappy punters why you cant raise the volume:(.
Click to expand...

It's not that bad. It's more like the lights you get on a stereo. Loads of greens and then red at the right hand side. You can see the volume go up, and just have to make sure you don't stay in the red too long. It's not like it's super quiet in the greens, so I guess it's all fair enough. And, as I say, the few times I have tripped the shut down, we've had a brilliant singalong reaction from the crowd - I've almost been tempted to trip it more often!
 
clandestino said:
It's not that bad. It's more like the lights you get on a stereo. Loads of greens and then red at the right hand side. You can see the volume go up, and just have to make sure you don't stay in the red too long. It's not like it's super quiet in the greens, so I guess it's all fair enough. And, as I say, the few times I have tripped the shut down, we've had a brilliant singalong reaction from the crowd - I've almost been tempted to trip it more often!
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The one in the Alma in Crystal Palace was awful - it was set barely above conversation level and would trip out if it so much as heard a slightly loud drumbeat.
 
clandestino said:
It's not that bad. It's more like the lights you get on a stereo. Loads of greens and then red at the right hand side. You can see the volume go up, and just have to make sure you don't stay in the red too long. It's not like it's super quiet in the greens, so I guess it's all fair enough. And, as I say, the few times I have tripped the shut down, we've had a brilliant singalong reaction from the crowd - I've almost been tempted to trip it more often!
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I played at a place that had one on the wall facing me. It was a slightly smaller version of a real set of traffic lights with a smiley on the green light and an angry face on the red.
 
SarfLondoner said:
View attachment 60189
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Haha! That would be rubbish.

This is more like the top strip of these lights...
LED-STEREO-SOUND-LEVEL-INDICATOR-for-audio-amplifier.jpg
 
I was told that there was a front page article quoting the Brixton Society chair on the SLP on the issue, though I haven't seen it.
 
CH1 said:
I was told that there was a front page article quoting the Brixton Society chair on the SLP on the issue, though I haven't seen it.
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Got the quote (very strange subsidiary headline from the SLP editor though..)
Grosvenor.jpg
 
SarfLondoner said:
Ive seen the traffic lights system:D its a joke, The one i described above is no better as you have to drop the mid and bass to get the volume to an audible level,not great when you are playing roots music. Then you spend half of your set explaining to unhappy punters why you cant raise the volume:(.
Click to expand...

They work in conjunction with a decibel meter installed outside the venue, the place I played that had one, every time the door was left open a few minutes the fucking thing tripped - they're a real nightmare to work with
 
Twattor said:
CAMRA tell me that the developer's appeal against the ACV listing of the Grosvenor was rejected. Pub is now listed as an asset of community value.
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Have you got a link for that? Be good to have some cheer to spread around for a change.
 
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