Public catch robber in Shepherd's Bush.

[Steel Icarus]

Have you ever been in a dangerous and violent situation for which you're ill-equipped (in terms of material and training)? Because you'd realise that it's much easier to criticise from your armchair afterwards than it is to get things perfect on the ground.

And the robber was still trying to get up until the very end. Who knows what her might have done then? Where his previous weapon was, what other weapons he had etc.

I'd have been going the other way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Athos]

I'd have been going the other way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Good for you.

 

[Spymaster]

O

Also 'UK cop humour' ffs. No thanks. Not here.

the two superb police officers were fantastically restrained. At least one of them was clearly armed yet his weapon was securely holstered rather than stuffed deep into the scally’s nostril.

 

[Spymaster]

I agree with this. Everything happens in a matter of seconds and of course people's blood will be up in a situation like that. What I object to is people who do have the luxury of distance praising acts of violence. Most of us who have felt compelled to use force to prevent greater harm would say they'd rather that situation hadn't happened at all than that their courage was recognised, because it doesn't feel like courage it feels like a reaction and a pretty upsetting one at that. Violence is not something that should ever feel good.

What’s the world coming to, eh? People are just too hard on armed robbers nowadays.

 

[Athos]

I agree with this. Everything happens in a matter of seconds and of course people's blood will be up in a situation like that. What I object to is people who do have the luxury of distance praising acts of violence. Most of us who have felt compelled to use force to prevent greater harm would say they'd rather that situation hadn't happened at all than that their courage was recognised, because it doesn't feel like courage it feels like a reaction and a pretty upsetting one at that. Violence is not something that should ever feel good.

I'm happy to praise those who risked their safety to apprehend a violent scumbag, the likes of whom terrorise our community. I don't particularly praise their use of force specifically, but certainly don't condemn it - it was pretty much all they could do in the circumstances. And I certainly have no sympathy for the robber.

 

[Yossarian]

Huge respect to the bald fella with the white coat and glasses who moves in and goes "That's enough, lads", pretty much stops the shoeing, and then wanders off when the coppers turn up.

Yep, I have a lot of respect for that man and diminishing amounts of respect for everybody else involved in that scene, with the guys who ran up to deliver some kicks to the restrained suspect's legs probably at the bottom.

 

[Spymaster]

I agree with this. Everything happens in a matter of seconds and of course people's blood will be up in a situation like that. What I object to is people who do have the luxury of distance praising acts of violence. Most of us who have felt compelled to use force to prevent greater harm would say they'd rather that situation hadn't happened at all than that their courage was recognised, because it doesn't feel like courage it feels like a reaction and a pretty upsetting one at that. Violence is not something that should ever feel good.

Oh, and lol at “most of us ...”

It’s ok SuperFrank, we all know you’re a hero!

 

[Athos]

Yep, I have a lot of respect for that man and diminishing amounts of respect for everybody else involved in that scene, with the guys who ran up to deliver some kicks to the restrained suspect's legs probably at the bottom.

He wasn't restrained, though; he was on the floor, but never under control. His arms were free and he was reaching for the bag (in which he could have had a weapon), and his legs were free, meaning he could have got up and run. Kicks to his legs were probably one of the safer ways to keep him down until he could be properly restrained.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm happy to praise those who risked their safety to apprehend a violent scumbag, the likes of whom terrorise our community. I don't particularly praise their use of force specifically, but certainly don't condemn it - it was pretty much all they could do in the circumstances.

There are a couple of people in the mix who very much look like they've just spotted a chance to put the boot in on a random stranger and seized on it. I wasn't there though. And even if someone was enjoying themselves a bit in the heat of the moment that's still several orders of magnitude less pathetic, and less worrying, than someone watching a video of the event and getting an infantile thrill out of it.

 

[maomao]

One of the wallies upthread droned on about mutual exclusivity. It’s perfectly possible to endorse public justice in situations like this but not in others.

That's not mutual exclusivity. That's just being selective.

 

[Athos]

There are a couple of people in the mix who very much look like they've just spotted a chance to put the boot in on a random stranger and seized on it. I wasn't there though. And even if someone was enjoying themselves a bit in the heat of the moment that's still several orders of magnitude less pathetic, and less worrying, than someone watching a video of the event and getting an infantile thrill out of it.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure the relevance of that to this thread. Nobody here has got an infantile thrill out of the violence. At most, people are pleased he was caught, and have little sympathy for the robustness of his capture.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

If we lived in a society where everyone felt all violence was wrong then this robbery would not have happened in the first place .

We are not all on the same page let alone reading the same book. And it will take a long time before we all have the luxury of living in a society which condemns all violence out of hand.

The robber got caught. He will probably be out of jail by next Easter if he does go to jail. Two others got away and they will all rob again.

It is interesting to see a citizens arrest. Who'd have thought it wasn't just a case of saying "halt..We are arresting you now".

 

[maomao]

The robber got caught. He will probably be out of jail by next Easter if he does go to jail

Average sentence for armed robbery in the UK is 3-4 years. Which may be reduced for good behaviour but he's unlikely to be out by the 'next easter' you just pulled out of your arse.

 

[Yossarian]

Seems like a poorly planned raid, anyway - the two men who threatened members of the public with weapons should probably have allowed their colleague with the loot to leave between them, instead of running off first.

 

[The39thStep]

Be interesting to have an honest list of what actions posters would have taken if they had been there.I'm a big fella and not without some courage but I'm not sure if I would have chased and confronted an armed robber. I certainly wouldnt be criticising the actions of those that did tbh.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Average sentence for armed robbery in the UK is 3-4 years. Which may be reduced for good behaviour but he's u likely t o be out by the 'next easter' yiu just pulled out of your arse.

Really? What weapon did he have? Did you see any? I saw a plastic shopping bag with some boxes falling out. He was the only robber without a helmet too...the driver?
Was he handed the bag by the others?

I'll put a wager on of £5 that he wont be in jail for 3 to 4 yrs.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Seems like a poorly planned raid, anyway - the two men who threatened members of the public with weapons should probably have allowed their colleague with the loot to leave between them, instead of running off first.

They clearly forgot to bring their scooters

 

[maomao]

I'll put a wager on of £5 that he wont be in jail for 3 to 4 yrs.

With who? You'd have to find someone who said he would be first.

 

[The39thStep]

Seems like a poorly planned raid, anyway - the two men who threatened members of the public with weapons should probably have allowed their colleague with the loot to leave between them, instead of running off first.

No project plan, critical path analysis, cause and effect or risk assessment?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

With who? You'd have to find someone who said he would be first.

Ok. Let's go back to where you said

Average sentence for armed robbery in the UK is 3-4 years. Which may be reduced for good behaviour but he's unlikely to be out by the 'next easter' you just pulled out of your arse.

I'll make a wager with you that he will be out within 6 months of trial and sentencing.

 

[maomao]

Ok. Let's go back to where you said


I'll make a wager that he will be out within 6 months of trial.

I'll have a fiver on that if you must. Dependent on conviction of course. You might not think his sentence long enough but armed robbers (and his accomplices were clearly armed) do more than six months inside.

 

[planetgeli]

Really? What weapon did he have? Did you see any? I saw a plastic shopping bag with some boxes falling out. He was the only robber without a helmet too...the driver?
Was he handed the bag by the others?

I'll put a wager on of £5 that he wont be in jail for 3 to 4 yrs.

He is wearing a helmet. And the way he's desperate for his bag Id lay bets on him having a weapon in there.

 

[Athos]

If convicted, he'll likely be sentenced to two to three years, meaning he'll be inside for a year to 18 months. He won't spend anything like four years inside, but nor will he be out by next Easter.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I'll have a fiver on that if you must. Dependent on conviction of course. You might not think his sentence long enough but armed robbers (and his accomplices were clearly armed) do more than six months inside.

It looked to me like the guy was the one in the sweater...and was possibly the driver. And as the driver, he didnt have a helmet...and as for arms...both look free in the video...he was not carrying any visible weapon or brandishing one...unless his rotund belly was hiding a sawmill. He also was not as fit as the others...probably older than them. Certainly not able to run without tripping.....maybe he had scissors and couldnt run because of that?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

He is wearing a helmet. And the way he's desperate for his bag Id lay bets on him having a weapon in there.

Did he have a helmet?
I'm watching on a phone.
I'll have another look...

 

[maomao]

If convicted, he'll likely be sentenced to two to the years, meaning he'll be inside for a year to 18 months. He won't spend anything like four years inside, but nor will he be out by next Easter.

An ex colleague of mine spent nearly two years inside for a failed drunken raid on a bookies. Maybe he wasn't that well behaved.

 

[Athos]

In any event, he doesn't need to be carrying a weapon to be guilty of armed robbery.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I am not into mob violent, and kicking people when they are down, but this was very different to the case of the extinction rebellion protester getting pulled off the tube train roof, and given a kicking. This must have been very scary for most of those that got involved*, I think Athos sums it up very well...

I'm not actually sure that the actions of the public went significantly beyond the force necessary to restrain him (into a punishment beating). He was a potentially very dangerous member of an armed gang; it was necessary to subdue him quickly, as he might have had, say, a knife in his waistband. And even if one or two did go a little further than it appears absolutely necessary to us (with the benefit of distance and hindsight) I don't think it's reasonable to criticise - you can't expect untrained people in a dangerous situation to weight things to perfection. And we should remember that the robber made that situation. One in which their actions may have lifelong consequences for the workers they terrified.

* one or two that were late to the party did seem to go a bit OTT, but not unsurprising in the heat of the moment.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

He looks bald to me.
No helmet ...

 

[Yossarian]

Be interesting to have an honest list of what actions posters would have taken if they had been there.I'm a big fella and not without some courage but I'm not sure if I would have chased and confronted an armed robber. I certainly wouldnt be criticising the actions of those that did tbh.

If I saw from the start that it was a ram-raid on a jeweller's I would have stayed the fuck out of the way - no members of the public appeared to be at immediate risk, and I'm definitely not going to risk my life to protect the private property of some shop that probably has insurance anyway.

If all I saw was some kind of incident happening in the street, I probably would have gone up to see what was going on and if I could be of some assistance - I like to think I might have tried to calm things down like the guy in white, but maybe I would have just looked on, pretty sure I wouldn't have joined in the kicking though.