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Public catch robber in Shepherd's Bush.

Saul Goodman said:
How the fuck is anyone managing to pretend to muster up an ounce of sympathy for this cunt? Has the world flipped so badly that we're now affiliating ourselves with the scum of the earth?
Would you wooly liberals be singing the same tune if this cunt had broken into your mother's house and got a bit of a slap for his efforts?
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What if he'd have fucked a farm animal? It would have been celebrated in a Guardian editorial, that's what. Probably.
 
Saul Goodman said:
How the fuck is anyone managing to pretend to muster up an ounce of sympathy for this cunt? Has the world flipped so badly that we're now affiliating ourselves with the scum of the earth?
Would you wooly liberals be singing the same tune if this cunt had broken into your mother's house and got a bit of a slap for his efforts?
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It’s not sympathy for the robber ffs. It’s a reluctance to mete out punishment in an arbitrary manner. He was caught. He was stopped. He was going to be arrested. Let the law do it’s job. Why put the boot in. Vengeance?

Why didn’t anyone go after the ones who’d run off? They went for the easy target instead, the bloke who was already on the floor.

I’m not talking about someone who broke into my mother’s house I’m responding to this particular situation.
 
Saul Goodman said:
I'm incapable of giving one single fuck about someone getting the shit kicked out of them for subjecting ordinary people to the terror those shop employees were subjected to. If you don't like that, that's your problem, and you're probably part of the reason the world is in the state it's in.


"moralist outrage types"? The moral outrage seems to be coming from the likes of yourself. I'm not outraged. I'm glad he got a kicking. I just wish he'd got a more persuasive kicking.
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You’re ridiculous.
 
Saul Goodman said:
Coming from someone who would rather listen to a sob story from a career criminal than respect the rights of innocent civilians not to be attacked and scarred for life... I don't think I'll lose much sleep over that particular dig.
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I have said nothing of the sort.

You haven’t read my posts.

You are speculating and inventing.

Either that or you base your understanding on your own mindless bluster and then react to that.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
I have said nothing of the sort.

You haven’t read my posts.

You are speculating and inventing.

Either that or you base your understanding on your own mindless bluster and then react to that.
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You believe he shouldn't have got a kicking. I believe he didn't get half enough of a kicking. Let's leave it at that.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
Why didn’t anyone go after the ones who’d run off? They went for the easy target instead, the bloke who was already on the floor.
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Because they were gone? How do you know they weren’t pursued? Not everyone is prepared to confront armed robbers and this scumbag was unlucky enough to be the last one out of the shop. By the time those that were prepared to get involved had reacted, scrotes 1 and 2 were already in Holland Park.
 
Corporal punishment is not part of our justice system. We don’t determine that the appropriate sentence for theft is to receive a kicking. I don’t know why that changes just because the kicking is pre-trial. If it does, though, should that mean the rest of your sentence is correspondingly lighter?

mob justice is not only inappropriate when the perpetrator is guilty, its endorsement also rapidly leads to the innocent becoming victims too.
 
Spymaster said:
Not in this case, so never mind, eh!

I just hope nobody bruised their knuckles.
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Nothing is ever context free. Nothing ever just stands in isolation. You endorse this, you are endorsing mob justice, and historically mob justice has many unpleasant examples of the innocent being beaten up, lynched, having their houses burnt down and more. If you like mob justice, you have to accept you are not in control of it. You don’t get to pick and choose.
 
Has anyone asked how the sheperd is? I would imagine finding a robber in such a place is very upsetting. :D
 
One of the wallies upthread droned on about mutual exclusivity. It’s perfectly possible to endorse public justice in situations like this but not in others.
 
Spymaster said:
One of the wallies upthread droned on about mutual exclusivity. It’s perfectly possible to endorse public justice in situations like this but not in others.
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No it’s not. I mean, you can say you personally approve of this specific individual getting a kicking (although I disagree because, like I say, corporal punishment is not part of our justice system). But you are either contributing to a climate of acceptance of mob justice or you are against it. There’s no middle ground. Because the whole point of mob justice is that no arbiter gets to consider at the start whether this particular victim of it has been appropriately selected or not. Disavowing the lynching of an innocent in retrospect won’t bring them back. The only way to prevent it is to have a clear policy that mob justice is always inappropriate.
 
The video keeps locking up but, just in case anyone else has a problem viewing it, it's here

'Ram-raider' punched and kicked by bystanders after robbery in west London

One thing strikes me; people with darker skin of whatever sort are often wrongly blamed for crime, but you might notice a fair variety of people with a range of skin colours are stopping this crime - That much I find nice.
I'll reserve judgement on my opinion of the kicking for the moment as I haven't really had time to think it through.
 
Is it reasonable to think that of course it was wrong for a mob to go beyond just restraint by giving the person a bit of a kicking but also not to be too sorry that they did?
 
I'm not actually sure that the actions of the public went significantly beyond the force necessary to restrain him (into a punishment beating). He was a potentially very dangerous member of an armed gang; it was necessary to subdue him quickly, as he might have had, say, a knife in his waistband. And even if one or two did go a little further than it appears absolutely necessary to us (with the benefit of distance and hindsight) I don't think it's reasonable to criticise - you can't expect untrained people in a dangerous situation to weight things to perfection. And we should remember that the robber made that situation. One in which their actions may have lifelong consequences for the workers they terrified.
 
The only thing braver than ganging up and kicking the shit out of a stricken man is going on the internet to one-handedly babble on about how great they were for doing it.

Imagine you arrived at the scene after the other two robbers had fled and all you saw was ten men beating one, apparently defenceless man. Surely the noble thing to do there would be to intervene to stop the violence? It appears that at least one person in the video does exactly that. Or is that the wrong kind of public justice? If you support the mob but not the bloke trying to stop them then you're not in favour of justice at all, you're just in favour of the kind of violence you think it's OK to feel good about.
 
kabbes said:
No it’s not. I mean, you can say you personally approve of this specific individual getting a kicking (although I disagree because, like I say, corporal punishment is not part of our justice system). But you are either contributing to a climate of acceptance of mob justice or you are against it. There’s no middle ground. Because the whole point of mob justice is that no arbiter gets to consider at the start whether this particular victim of it has been appropriately selected or not. Disavowing the lynching of an innocent in retrospect won’t bring them back. The only way to prevent it is to have a clear policy that mob justice is always inappropriate.
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That only holds up as long as we share your characterisation of what happened as 'mob justice.' It's quite possible to argue this wasn't a punishment, but an attempt to apprehend.
 
The robbers come out threatening the public with what looks like a claw hammer and a sledgehammer. The third bloke could have had a gun for all anyone knew. I don't think it's unreasonable to make sure the cunt stays down by any means necessary.

Adrenaline was running on all sides. Comments on here made in the luxury of distance from the scene in miles and time are bordering on the ridiculous.
 
Athos said:
That only holds up as long as we share your characterisation of what happened as 'mob justice.' It's quite possible to argue this wasn't a punishment, but an attempt to apprehend.
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Lad in the navy trackies did a great job of apprehending, with a couple of timid boots while the bloke was down and not getting up. What a have a go hero
 
S☼I said:
Lad in the navy trackies did a great job of apprehending, with a couple of timid boots while the bloke was down and not getting up. What a have a go hero
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Have you ever been in a dangerous and violent situation for which you're ill-equipped (in terms of material and training)? Because you'd realise that it's much easier to criticise from your armchair afterwards than it is to get things perfect on the ground.

And the robber was still trying to get up until the very end. Who knows what her might have done then? Where his previous weapon was, what other weapons he had etc.
 
planetgeli said:
The robbers come out threatening the public with what looks like a claw hammer and a sledgehammer. The third bloke could have had a gun for all anyone knew. I don't think it's unreasonable to make sure the cunt stays down by any means necessary.

Adrenaline was running on all sides. Comments on here made in the luxury of distance from the scene in miles and time are bordering on the ridiculous.
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I agree with this. Everything happens in a matter of seconds and of course people's blood will be up in a situation like that. What I object to is people who do have the luxury of distance praising acts of violence. Most of us who have felt compelled to use force to prevent greater harm would say they'd rather that situation hadn't happened at all than that their courage was recognised, because it doesn't feel like courage it feels like a reaction and a pretty upsetting one at that. Violence is not something that should ever feel good.
 
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