Proposal to ban private cars from public roads

[GarfieldLeChat]

I'm guessing here, but would imagine the people who have signed up to streetcar are quite respectful of the scheme in general.



Not so much an issue with crashing which would affect your excess, more just thrashing the bollocks off it, wheel spins, skids, just general shitty driving that wears a car our very quickly. You know, the kind of shit you get up to in hire cars now.

doesn't really happen on street car but then you need to have a clean licence to be part of the scheme and they check with the DVLA, so again would you have a system where there was a premium service and say a rent a wreak...

(not to mention as no one has how the hell you'd police this nation wide and stop illegal unlicensed non tracker tagged vehicles being on the road or the organised crime which would naturally spring up when you were inevitably had elements who were removed or barred from the scheme based on whatever political whim was in the air that week... )

 

[stupid dogbot]

I'm not reading that bloody essay, but I'd like to see you enforce it.

 

[teuchter]

do you honestly believe there are cars on the road purely for the sake of being there?

or are they all being used?

Average uk annual mileage per car: about 10,000

Assume average speed of 30mph

10,000 / 30 = 333 hours

Number of hours in a year = 8,760

So the average car sits idle for about 96% of the time.

Very roughly.

and who would own these private hire vehicles ?

how would they arrive at the station? what happens whey they cease to be taxis ie are being driven to and from work? or are they left at the stations etc overnight in which case how do the drivers get to work? and so on...

they would be just like taxis are now. The licensees would be allowed to drive them to and from work; there would be no reason not to.

 

[kyser_soze]

In the next parliament, i'd legislate to make all the public roads private, thus enabling people to drive their private cars on them again.

 

[teuchter]

The fuck it does. Please elaborate how your scheme would work in that situation.

Just read my reply to Crispy in post 15.

 

[teuchter]

(not to mention as no one has how the hell you'd police this nation wide and stop illegal unlicensed non tracker tagged vehicles being on the road or the organised crime which would naturally spring up when you were inevitably had elements who were removed or barred from the scheme based on whatever political whim was in the air that week... )

I don't see how any of this is really any different from what has to be policed at the moment.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

why?
i know that using my cars is bad for environment and congestion reasons, so I don't use them often. As such I'd probably pay less under a pay-per-use scheme...

because the only manner in which this would be controlled would be to have a tracker fitted to your car which then means you can be traced at all times where ever you go.

Govt's should never have the ablity to track peoples movements this is a bad thing...

the fact you've not even considered it shows how little thought you've put into the matter at all and are merely riffing of the cuff which is fine but don't pretend you've actually got a reasoned argument for having a govt tracker on your every movement under any supposed auspices of eco this or that because it's bullshit...

and how would it work? there'd also need to be a removal of fuel tax on all fuels car tax at the same time a new system of monitoring car insurance they'd have to be tamper proof it'd create a market in which an entire criminal enterprise largely no doubt within the under classes who still needed to use their cars but couldn't afford the per mile charge which would be significantly greater in terms of administration fees of any kind than the current system...

If you think that this last year something like 25 to 35 % of cars on the road aren't insured and this is under the current schemes and set ups where checks are expensive hard to administer and we can't manage that system properly (the removal of the uninsured alone would also solve the congestion issues over night btw by simply crushing those cars...) how the fuck are you going to manage a tracker car system...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I don't see how any of this is really any different from what has to be policed at the moment.

and it currently works does it see uninsured drivers
cars without mots
cars without tax
drivers with out licence

none of those on the roads at all at the present levels of policing... right...

or as I said utterly impossible to police....

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Just read my reply to Crispy in post 15.

Have you recently suffered head trauma?

"I mean, they would start paying for the hire at that point. Arrive at station on train, pick up a car, drive home, sleep, drive car back to station next day, leave car, go to work, get back from work to station, pick up a car, drive home, etc etc.

In other words, exactly as many people do now, but the car would be available for use by others during the day instead of sitting idle in the station car park."

You tell me. How does that work for the millions of people who don't actually live within walking distance of a train station or bus stop. Fuck me, from a boy named teuchter I'd expect a sight more understanding that not all the country is on a trainline/bus route.

 

[teuchter]

I'm not reading that bloody essay, but I'd like to see you enforce it.

As ever, thank you for your continuing constructive contribution to urban75.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

because the only manner in which this would be controlled would be to have a tracker fitted to your car which then means you can be traced at all times where ever you go.

Erm, or do the simple thing and add more duty to fuel. As a pay-per-use method for cars, it's pretty damned effective.

 

[fredfelt]

Im not gonna read it and I still reckon its shit.....

My proposal would be to make new drivers ride a motorbike for a few years before they're allowed to move onto a car, it'll make the roads safer for motorbikes, raise road awareness of new drivers, more people would stick with motorbikes, and there'd be less congestion....

I rule

Replace 'motorbike' with 'bicycle' and I'll give you a +1.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Average uk annual mileage per car: about 10,000

Assume average speed of 30mph

10,000 / 30 = 333 hours

Number of hours in a year = 8,760

So the average car sits idle for about 96% of the time.

Very roughly.

show me this average car what does it look like?

they would be just like taxis are now. The licensees would be allowed to drive them to and from work; there would be no reason not to.

you are confused clearly.

Taxis as you keep referring to them like they are some magical other thing are private hire vehicles. They are only considered such when working within a certain licence area the rest of the time they are privately owned vehicles or fleet owned. when not being used within their licence area they become what folding bicycles, pumpkins or cars?

 

[teuchter]

Have you recently suffered head trauma?

"I mean, they would start paying for the hire at that point. Arrive at station on train, pick up a car, drive home, sleep, drive car back to station next day, leave car, go to work, get back from work to station, pick up a car, drive home, etc etc.

In other words, exactly as many people do now, but the car would be available for use by others during the day instead of sitting idle in the station car park."

You tell me. How does that work for the millions of people who don't actually live within walking distance of a train station or bus stop. Fuck me, from a boy named teuchter I'd expect a sight more understanding that not all the country is on a trainline/bus route.

If you don't live within walking distance of a train station/bus stop, you step out of your house, open the door of your car-share car, get in it, and drive it to the train station.

It's remarkably similar to what you'd do now, just that the car isn't yours; it's a car-share vehicle.

I'm not sure what further clarification is needed.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Erm, or do the simple thing and add more duty to fuel. As a pay-per-use method for cars, it's pretty damned effective.

I'd like to see this done on a sliding scale tbh you get to pay for your fuel via a ration card the larger engine you have without need or justification you pay a greater amount per ration... more fuel efficent cars would have better rations/price ratio... it means you could have your silly v8 pouserthon twat mobile but you'd be paying significantly more for it than a pre-arse...

 

[kyser_soze]

Erm, or do the simple thing and add more duty to fuel. As a pay-per-use method for cars, it's pretty damned effective.

Yeah, but the grief you get with this is that it prices the poor, w/c etc out of being able to drive, so the only people who can drive will be toffs. Because it's a right to drive a car. Same as air travel.

I'm with garf on this one - have a sliding scale based on the spec&fuel consumption of the car.

 

[teuchter]

Erm, or do the simple thing and add more duty to fuel. As a pay-per-use method for cars, it's pretty damned effective.

Actually, I think there's quite a lot of evidence that shows it's not. It doesn't have much impact on how much people use their cars.

 

[mauvais]

I'd like to see this done on a sliding scale tbh you get to pay for your fuel via a ration card the larger engine you have without need or justification you pay a greater amount per ration... more fuel efficent cars would have better rations/price ratio... it means you could have your silly v8 pouserthon twat mobile but you'd be paying significantly more for it than a pre-arse...

You are. It's called mpg. What's the 'justification' for a V8, by the way?

 

[plurker]

I'd like to see this done on a sliding scale tbh you get to pay for your fuel via a ration card the larger engine you have without need or justification you pay a greater amount per ration... more fuel efficent cars would have better rations/price ratio...

this would make sense, and negates the need for the tracker system.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Actually, I think there's quite a lot of evidence that shows it's not. It doesn't have much impact on how much people use their cars.

source that cost prohibitive car use hasn't in these times reduced car usage because I think you'll find that most recent studies say that it's decreasing (just as it was every year inside of London up until the introduction of the congestion charge where it flat lined and then started to increase again...)

 

[DotCommunist]

Some of this already happens in the form of congestion charging - but the fact is that it's really difficult to persuade people to accept extra costs in return for long term gains. That's the problem that my system is designed to get round.

Just look at the record of trying to introduce congestion charging anywhere in the UK. And the objections raised to road pricing schemes.

well, our motorway network is pretty good- perhaps a toll system might work but I'd be insistent that the tolls collected run at a profit that can be ploughed into the P/T networks of places where being carless is to be at the mercy of shit expensive and unreliable P/T.

I got paid half the toll money for a french delivery job once as a driver avoided toll roads as much as poss, it took longer to deliver the goods but we left earlier and made the delivery on time. Same bloke also introduced me to the joys of keeping your overnight hotel allowance by sleeping in the van.

I know getting people to think long term on this is a battle but it could be done. The cost of a 40 minute journey from my (same county mind) town to the shires main town is four pounds 15 pence

I did a similar journey in madrid via bus and 40 mins travel cost me one euro and thirty centimes. so what? a quid maybe?

thing is I recon nationalisation of all P/T is a necessity and that running the network for pure profit (rather than ticking over, keeping in line with inflation and maintaining modernity of the network etc) has led to the point where I can actually beat the bus to my nearest town on my bike. And that is not because I am Bicycle Superman, it is because the privatised bus service can only make a profit on some routes by going all around the local villages etc. and wasting my time.

10 year project I'd say. 5 years to be spent convincing the car owners that the toy is a toy- I'm no hater of cars but given a cheaper and more efficient alternative people would go cheaper option surely

 

[plurker]

It doesn't have much impact on how much people use their cars.

I reckon it would if it increased by a significant amount.

 

[teuchter]

Taxis as you keep referring to them like they are some magical other thing are private hire vehicles. They are only considered such when working within a certain licence area the rest of the time they are privately owned vehicles or fleet owned. when not being used within their licence area they become what folding bicycles, pumpkins or cars?

They become out-of use taxis. Probably either parked at the taxi company's offices or the driver's house. If technically feasible, they could simply revert to being normal shared cars (if the equipment necessary to allow them to operate as a taxi was portable perhaps) - that would be ideal I suppose.

I don't see what the relevance of this small detail is to whether or not the scheme would be feasible.

 

[kyser_soze]

Horses and bicycles FFS!!!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

this would make sense, and negates the need for the tracker system.

also means that those barbie jeeps and other fuel inefficient monsters would either be off the roads or knowing the conspicuous consumers that people are they've raise significantly high levels of additional revenue.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

They become out-of use taxis. Probably either parked at the taxi company's offices or the driver's house. If technically feasible, they could simply revert to being normal shared cars (if the equipment necessary to allow them to operate as a taxi was portable perhaps) - that would be ideal I suppose.

I don't see what the relevance of this small detail is to whether or not the scheme would be feasible.

so you'd make and exception for taxi drivers to your no private car rule... hmm can see what might happen there then, would it be like Private hire cars currently not having to pay congestion charge so a significant number of private hire cars are now Bentleys, Astons, Ferraris etc...

nah mate it's a cab innit so I can keep my private car...

 

[teuchter]

I reckon it would if it increased by a significant amount.

That's the point - to be effective, it has to be increased by quite a lot, and doing that is generally considered unacceptable politically, and impacts most on those who can least afford it. The fact that it has to be raised by quite a lot to have an effect is why I'd contest that it's "highly effective".

http://www.env-econ.net/2006/05/inelastic_short.html

 

[plurker]

fuel inefficient monsters

my camper has pretty poor mpg, but I'd be happy to pay to drive it via a fuel charge, as it would still be cheaper than holidaying. My car's a 1.5 small hatchback, and the bike's only a 400. everyone's a winner

 

[mauvais]

Teuchter, you haven't addressed my point that all you have done is made cars accessible to even more people that didn't previously have them. If - and your argument is based upon this - people won't reduce the usage of a car once one is available to them, why do you think you're going to reduce overall use & dependency by simply removing the personal ownership element?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

my camper has pretty poor mpg, but I'd be happy to pay to drive it via a fuel charge, as it would still be cheaper than holidaying. My car's a 1.5 small hatchback, and the bike's only a 400. everyone's a winner

plus it plays on the mentality which most motorists have which is this is just what it costs to drive so I've not even considered it.

It's also why the fuel tax escalation will never work in getting drivers off the road because when I started driving it was around 48 p a liter if that (might have even been 34p) now it's 1.14 ish a liter it's just what it costs every successive generation who's learned to drive and taken to the road has paid during that period whatever it costs to get fuel at that time and that becomes the norm and so it gets factored into your costs. you still only ever put in a tenner at the weekend and 20 in the week