GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
thus relieving the congestion how? all those additional cars say one per what 4 to 6 people...
what a private hire car owned by who?
Proposal to ban private cars from public roads
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
thus relieving the congestion how? all those additional cars say one per what 4 to 6 people...
what a private hire car owned by who?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
they chose to live in the sticks they can live like sticks... fuck em...
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
True. It is unfortunate.
Your scheme, however, is much more palatable and should slip down the government, press and public's throats like greased butter.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
They managed for 10 millenia with horses and carts before the IC engine came along, they can go back to them too.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Less cars would be needed than exist now, because they would be more efficiently used (not sitting idle for so much time). Additionally, public transport woudl become better used in the long term for the reasons I explained in my OP, which would further reduce the total number of cars needed.
You would have taxis, licensed as they are now. You would still need taxis anyway for people who couldn't drive for whatever reasons.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Well the solution was in my post.
Change the root cause by forcing better planning models.
Don't act like a doctor perscribing expensive pain killer after pain killer to deal with the pain of a broken leg. Fix the leg.
Making car travel unattactive by increasing taxes or banning private cars or whatever doesn't work if it the economic need for a flexible highly mobile work force hasn't been eliminated.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes, yes, I know, but...
Streetcar and similar schemes are gaining in popularity, and the London bike hire scheme seems to be a lot more successful than many predicted.
And the main point is: what do people actually lose under my proposal (other than the psychological "my car" thing)? It can be implemented without any "stick" measures - unlike fuel tax or road pricing there is no need to increase anyone's travel costs to make it work.
Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
For starters, the plan relies on a good few assumptions that are just ridiculous. For instance:
"Enough car-share cars would be made available that everyone could have access to one whenever they wanted."
"the system would ensure that a car was available to them when they wanted it"
That's one hell of a premise. But then it gets worse, when the sheer logistical nonsense of the proposal is detailed:
"For people who live out in the sticks, they would pick the car up at the public transport hub, drive it back home, and back to a hub (or anywhere they fancied) the next time they went out."
How are they going to pick up the car? Young mother of 2 Mrs Mcginty lives in the highlands. She wants a car because it's winter and she needs to take her youngest to Brig O Doon health practice because of his nasty cough. Are you proposing she cycles across to her nearest hub, picks up car, goes back, gets children, goes to appointment, drops the kids back home, drops car off to hub, then cycles back through the snow?
What's worst of all though is that this is a ridiculously elaborate scheme that will work in the most clumsy of manners, all to achieve something pretty simple.
The simplest way to cut down on private use of cars is just to put duty on petrol. It encourages people to use a car as little as possible. It encourages manufacturers to build more efficient vehicles. Ringfence part of the revenue and put it back into nationalised transport systems, and you get a positive spiral. Simple as fuck, achieves the behaviour you want, still flexible enough to accomodate the varied needs people have.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
The main issue with this scheme is that you don't own the car, so just like when you hire one from Avis now, you'll drive it like a cunt.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'd be happier with a taxation on private that fed directly to improving and building on P/T (nationalised)
I think a fair scheme could be worked out- I'd not be happy living in cornwall or glousctershire without a car, given the current P/T standards in those regions. So a fairer scheme would be: higher taxation on vehicles used in areas of affordable and reliable P/T networks (like London and the other big cities). In an ideal world this combined with heavy investment in P/T would eventually lead to a solid network that plays out cheaper than owning your own car- rental costs would then be driven downwards so that Joe Bloggs who has a family plus cargo to transport from Sheffield to St Ives can afford to do so at a reasonable rate.
I'd probably consider concessions for motorbikers in car-choked cities- the scheme would have to be well thought out and done fairly.
Thing is the idea I propose would free the road networks from drivers of necessity leaving only logistics and people wealthy enough to soak the tax- so the petrol heads would still be able to spank the motor for fun on roads freed up from pesky drivers of necessity .
As a pushbike rider I have no dog in this race- hence I am sure there may be flaws with my proposal that people will point out.
I think a fair scheme could be worked out- I'd not be happy living in cornwall or glousctershire without a car, given the current P/T standards in those regions. So a fairer scheme would be: higher taxation on vehicles used in areas of affordable and reliable P/T networks (like London and the other big cities). In an ideal world this combined with heavy investment in P/T would eventually lead to a solid network that plays out cheaper than owning your own car- rental costs would then be driven downwards so that Joe Bloggs who has a family plus cargo to transport from Sheffield to St Ives can afford to do so at a reasonable rate.
I'd probably consider concessions for motorbikers in car-choked cities- the scheme would have to be well thought out and done fairly.
Thing is the idea I propose would free the road networks from drivers of necessity leaving only logistics and people wealthy enough to soak the tax- so the petrol heads would still be able to spank the motor for fun on roads freed up from pesky drivers of necessity .
As a pushbike rider I have no dog in this race- hence I am sure there may be flaws with my proposal that people will point out.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
You've said what needs to change, but not how to change it, in pragmatic terms. Bulldoze all the out-of town trading estates and introduce 4 buses per hour to all rural roads?
The point of my proposal is that it could affect a similar change in the long term in exchange for less short-term pain.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
do you honestly believe there are cars on the road purely for the sake of being there?
or are they all being used?
and who would own these private hire vehicles ?
how would they arrive at the station? what happens whey they cease to be taxis ie are being driven to and from work? or are they left at the stations etc overnight in which case how do the drivers get to work? and so on...
mind you given the current trend in people with fuck all clue being put in charge of transport planning your a shoe in for a job... I'd try TFL or indeed camden or westminster all of which have ideas as equally clueless...
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
I'm all for cutting down the number of cars and improving PT but if I was rich enough (and therefore one of the people our government actually works for) I would probably want to spend some of my riches on my own car(s) and chauffeur.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I'm all for introducing cycle hire schemes more widely too.
Insurance will be exactly as with any hire car; included in the price you pay. Or potentially, if it is one big state-run system it would be large enough to insure itself.
plurker
tú no tienes la culpa mi amor que el mundo sea feo
*votes for this one*
As a multi-vehicle owner, living in London, this works best for me.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The Streetcar schemes seem to function happily enough. I don't know exactly how they deal with this, but it seems not to be an insurmountable obstacle.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
street car is actually not good value in terms of usage or efficiency (30 miles a day free unless you hire for a week in which case it's unlimited) so assuming you can book a car out at the half hourly rates as per street car in one day that's 1440 miles of petrol used. (30 x 48 1/2hour slots).
this again seems like a regressive tax scheme too...
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Some of this already happens in the form of congestion charging - but the fact is that it's really difficult to persuade people to accept extra costs in return for long term gains. That's the problem that my system is designed to get round.
Just look at the record of trying to introduce congestion charging anywhere in the UK. And the objections raised to road pricing schemes.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
this ^^
mauvais
on reddit or something
Proportional to the risk? So e.g. young drivers pay more?
It seems to me that despite all the other flaws, all you would actually achieve, in the best case, is translating overhead costs (purchase, depreciation, upfront insurance, road tax) into per-mile rates. This translates to a worse usage model because it is then cheaper to drive a quarter mile to the shops rather than having to pay several thousand pounds before you can go anywhere.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
you pay a premium of around £65 a year and then basically have to pay a further £250 excess in the event of an accident, plus your insurance is only 3rd party (not fire or theft) and has a number of other restrictive clauses in it...
I use both my own car and street cars/vans they really aren't affordable long term, as a solution and the insurance is hire car insurance not compensatory insurance which would cover say missed work uninsured loss and many other things...
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
yeah as well they should anything which restricts freedom of movement or introduces a toll for doing so is a bad thing...
Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
The fuck it does. Please elaborate how your scheme would work in that situation.
plurker
tú no tienes la culpa mi amor que el mundo sea feo
I disagree with the latter point, wjhy is that a bad thing? I'd be more than happy to pay-per-mile for my car use.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I'm guessing here, but would imagine the people who have signed up to streetcar are quite respectful of the scheme in general.
Not so much an issue with crashing which would affect your excess, more just thrashing the bollocks off it, wheel spins, skids, just general shitty driving that wears a car our very quickly. You know, the kind of shit you get up to in hire cars now.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
you're an idiot who needs their licence revoking then...
plurker
tú no tienes la culpa mi amor que el mundo sea feo
why?
i know that using my cars is bad for environment and congestion reasons, so I don't use them often. As such I'd probably pay less under a pay-per-use scheme...
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
Im not gonna read it and I still reckon its shit.....
My proposal would be to make new drivers ride a motorbike for a few years before they're allowed to move onto a car, it'll make the roads safer for motorbikes, raise road awareness of new drivers, more people would stick with motorbikes, and there'd be less congestion....
I rule
My proposal would be to make new drivers ride a motorbike for a few years before they're allowed to move onto a car, it'll make the roads safer for motorbikes, raise road awareness of new drivers, more people would stick with motorbikes, and there'd be less congestion....
I rule
