Pro-Islamist Left Exposed

[Tom A]

The timing's interesting too, there's not a lot of new information. It would've been possible to write something very similar 4 or 5 years ago. Why now?

Maybe UAF's recent piss poor performances when it comes to confronting the likes of the EDL has something to do with it? Of course the wounds of the Martin Smith/Comrade Delta crisis are still pretty fresh...

 

[SpineyNorman]

wonder if this thread will get 664,000 views?

I doubt it will, principally because it's not telling us anything we don't already know. Just as an OP arguing that the Royal Family are a bit posh wouldn't get 664,000 views either.

 

[J Ed]

Press TV

I agree with you 100% re: interventionism and Iran, but I'm not so sure about the Press TV bit. Ken Livingstone and George Galloway amongst others on the left both were paid by Press TV. Working for Press TV sort of necessitates a pro-Iranian government position far more so than, for example, working for Al Jazeera necessitates a pro-Qatar stance. Actually I have an Iranian friend who confronted Yvonne Ridley during a Q&A after a talk she gave regarding her support for Press TV and she gave a pretty uncritical defence of Ahmedinejad from a left liberal perspective.

Let's not forget what sort of stuff Press TV puts out:

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/03/281521/jewish-mafia-tied-to-death-of-america/

Jewish Mafia tied to death of America

The United States has endured many challenges since having reached its economic peak several decades ago. The wealth generated during the 1940s and 1950s carried the nation through several economic downturns. By the 1970s, much of this excess wealth had been depleted.


As America’s economic decline was becoming more apparent, the nation’s ruling class convinced Washington officials to introduce a series of levers designed to reduce or even reverse the decline. I have discussed each of these levers in previous articles.

The first lever introduced was the petrodollar in the early 1970s. The next was free trade. This economic pillar of globalization was advocated in the 1980s, but was not pushed through Congress until the early 1990s. Since then, it has spread throughout much of the world.

The final lever was the creation of numerous asset bubbles by the Federal Reserve Bank and Wall Street, both run by the Jewish Mafia. The Fed’s ability to create these bubbles is based largely on the financial attributes of the petrodollar.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/280151_The_Rape_of_Greece_By_Jewish_B

Press TV started off with this headline: “The Rape Of Greece By Jewish Bankers”.

A little later, they edited that to “The Rape of Greece By Zionist Bankers”.

However, if you go to the article and scroll down a little, you’ll note that they forget to edit out “Jewish Banking Cartel”.

You can see a link to the amended article which was subsequently deleted in the related stories tab here

 

[Delroy Booth]

Agreed with you on Press TV, comparing it to Al-Jazeera isn't perhaps a good one, but again support for Iran theocracy and support for sunni Al-Queada salafists are very different. Two different types of Islamism there, currently in a state of conflict which the West is deeply involved in, and a distinction between them and recognition of the geopolitical context should've been included in this report.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I doubt it will, principally because it's not telling us anything we don't already know.

I have to admit that I didn't know. I joined Stop The War for the simple and naiive reason that I'm against the atrocities by the USA/UK in Iraq and Afghanistan. I had no knowledge that the organisation was pro-Islamic, pro-Sharia, or anything like that.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I agree with you 100% re: interventionism and Iran, but I'm not so sure about the Press TV bit. Ken Livingstone and George Galloway amongst others on the left both were paid by Press TV. Working for Press TV sort of necessitates a pro-Iranian government position far more so than, for example, working for Al Jazeera necessitates a pro-Qatar stance. Actually I have an Iranian friend who confronted Yvonne Ridley during a Q&A after a talk she gave regarding her support for Press TV and she gave a pretty uncritical defence of Ahmedinejad from a left liberal perspective.

Let's not forget what sort of stuff Press TV puts out:

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/03/281521/jewish-mafia-tied-to-death-of-america/

Jewish Mafia tied to death of America



http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/280151_The_Rape_of_Greece_By_Jewish_B



You can see a link to the amended article which was subsequently deleted in the related stories tab here

Just out of interest, what's the deal with that little green footballs site? (Don't get me wrong, not having a go for you using the link - I get why you did that) Only I seem to remember it having influenced Breivik and thought it was a kind of neocon/right wing zionist Islamophibic kind of effort. But there's stuff on there criticising the GOP's climate change denial and the like which doesn't really seem to fit.

How would you characterise it?

 

[Tom A]

Just out of interest, what's the deal with that little green footballs site? (Don't get me wrong, not having a go for you using the link - I get why you did that) Only I seem to remember it having influenced Breivik and thought it was a kind of neocon/right wing zionist Islamophibic kind of effort. But there's stuff on there criticising the GOP's climate change denial and the like which doesn't really seem to fit.

How would you characterise it?

LGF is a bit like Harry's Place on steroids. Around 2003 they used to troll pro-ISM and pro-Palestine articles on Indymedia (back when it was a news source that was worth its salt) with some vicious attacks. Although by around 2009 IIRC they weren't too keen on Tea Partiers (or the nuttier elements of them) or 9/11 Truthers, but they are still an extremely reactionary bunch.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I have to admit that I didn't know. I joined Stop The War for the simple and naiive reason that I'm against the atrocities by the USA/UK in Iraq and Afghanistan. I had no knowledge that the organisation was pro-Islamic, pro-Sharia, or anything like that.

I think most of us did. But I think it makes more sense to view STW as being soft on Islamists etc and allowing them to get into leading positions rather than being institutionally Islamist if that makes sense. And back then I don't think many of us did know.

But the association between the SWP/Respect part of the left with Islamists (either through being soft on them or actively working with them at times) has been common knowledge, especially on these boards, for at least a decade.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Just out of interest, what's the deal with that little green footballs site? (Don't get me wrong, not having a go for you using the link - I get why you did that) Only I seem to remember it having influenced Breivik and thought it was a kind of neocon/right wing zionist Islamophibic kind of effort. But there's stuff on there criticising the GOP's climate change denial and the like which doesn't really seem to fit.

How would you characterise it?

the main contributor changed sides when the Tea Party emerged, because he thought they (and consequently the GOP they influenced) were too out there. Not sure if he's still a Republican, but he was pro-Obama in both '08 and '12

 

[SpineyNorman]

Agreed with you on Press TV, comparing it to Al-Jazeera isn't perhaps a good one, but again support for Iran theocracy and support for sunni Al-Queada salafists are very different. Two different types of Islamism there, currently in a state of conflict which the West is deeply involved in, and a distinction between them and recognition of the geopolitical context should've been included in this report.

Might be good, if anyone has the time and the inclination, to do a kind of paralel one on the Pro-Islamist right. Which ought to be much more damning cos they're in control of western nation states and actually providing them with arms and strategic support.

I know this stuff has been well covered by people like Nafeez Ahmed but I'm thinking more along the lines of a direct response to this report - in fact by sensible people it could be seen as complimenting and completing this report.

I'm too lazy to do it though

 

[Delroy Booth]

Might be good, if anyone has the time and the inclination, to do a kind of paralel one on the Pro-Islamist right. Which ought to be much more damning cos they're in control of western nation states and actually providing them with arms and strategic support.

I know this stuff has been well covered by people like Nafeez Ahmed but I'm thinking more along the lines of a direct response to this report - in fact by sensible people it could be seen as complimenting and completing this report.

I'm too lazy to do it though

Yeah we should start a thread tonight and list and go through the Pro-Islamist right. It'd be a right field day. Let's just collate some stuff and work out if it's worth writing a reply. also - a commentary on the UAF stuff from the left perspective would be a good thing to do by way of reply, because they happen to be right about the links to Azad Ali and IFE and so on, but they miss the sort of trotty sectarian context that we're so well-versed in. That's a dimension of it that's overlooked.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yeah we should start a thread tonight and list and go through the Pro-Islamist right. It'd be a right field day. Let's just collate some stuff and work out if it's worth writing a reply. also - a commentary on the UAF stuff from the left perspective would be a good thing to do by way of reply, because they happen to be right about the links to Azad Ali and IFE and so on, but they miss the sort of trotty sectarian context that we're so well-versed in. That's a dimension of it that's overlooked.

Think a thread is a great idea - you should get the honour of starting it though

 

[SpineyNorman]

Just looking at Namazee's blog, they say there it's a companion to the one exposing the far right as enemies not allies - but I still think the centre/neocon/neoliberal right needs 'exposing' too.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'm certainly no fan of Galloway and I think they're right to class him as pro-Islamist but I can't really see what's all that wrong with what they report him as having said here:

‘I believe in the Judgement Day. All of you do. I believe that one day we will have
to answer to the Almighty, for what we did, and what we did not do, with the
life that God gave us. And I just say this, and I ask you to say it, especially to other
religious people: how will you explain, on the last day, that you had a chance,
on 29 March, 2012, to vote either for the guy who led the great campaign
against the slaughter of millions of people in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere,
you could have voted for him, but instead you voted, because of village politics,
you voted for a party that’s killed a million Iraqis, which has killed a hundred
thousand Afghans, which has supported Israel killing uncountable numbers of
Palestinians. How are you going to explain that one? You had a choice. Not the
normal choice. Not Labour or Tory. Not Labour or Tory or Liberal. You had a
choice of voting for the leading opponent of these crimes, against these crimes,
but you chose instead to reward the party that committed these crimes. How
are you going to explain that on the Judgement Day?’
George Galloway, Leader,
Respect Party, campaigning in 2012

Alright, he uses some religious rhetoric but I fail to see why it should be considered beyond the pale - am I missing something here?

 

[J Ed]

Just out of interest, what's the deal with that little green footballs site? (Don't get me wrong, not having a go for you using the link - I get why you did that) Only I seem to remember it having influenced Breivik and thought it was a kind of neocon/right wing zionist Islamophibic kind of effort. But there's stuff on there criticising the GOP's climate change denial and the like which doesn't really seem to fit.

How would you characterise it?

I've never visited it before I don't think, from the name I assumed it was linked to the philosophy football website, it was just one of the first sites that came up when I googled the Press TV article.

 

[dominion]

Andy Newman is currently witch-hunting Anne Marie Waters/One Law for all and has published this:

http://socialistunity.com/anne-marie-waters-the-worst-possible-potential-labour-ppc/

In true "democractic" fashion Newman and Tony Collins have banned any one that dares to disagree. Heres a response:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/socialist-unity-attacks-secularist.html

Not to be outdone Newman followed up with what turned out to be a defence of Qaradawi:

http://socialistunity.com/on-not-fearing-muslims/

A response to that one is here:

http://hurryupharry.org/2013/06/23/andy-newman-turns-to-the-dark-side-of-the-force/

 

[sihhi]

I'm certainly no fan of Galloway and I think they're right to class him as pro-Islamist but I can't really see what's all that wrong with what they report him as having said here:



Alright, he uses some religious rhetoric but I fail to see why it should be considered beyond the pale - am I missing something here?

Bloody hell Spiney it's explicity religiou-ifying an issue (British foreign policy) that requires no such thing.
Inadvertantly, it allows the Islamist right to paint Britain as conducting a war on Muslims. It's the first step in constructing an Islamist case.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm certainly no fan of Galloway and I think they're right to class him as pro-Islamist but can'tm really see what's all that wrong with what they report him as having said here:



Alright, he uses some religious rhetoric but I fail to see why it should be considered beyond the pale - am I missing something here?

Remember, this is a criticism of the left - a left that isn't supposed to put things ion religious terms.

 

[J Ed]

Bloody hell Spiney it's explicity religiou-ifying an issue (British foreign policy) that requires no such thing.
Inadvertantly, it allows the Islamist right to paint Britain as conducting a war on Muslims. It's the first step in constructing an Islamist case.

I'm not so sure, I don't think it's that bad for Galloway to say hey you claim to believe all these things and yet you go against all that because of a system of patronage and according to your system of belief if you continue to behave like that then you are going to hell. Maybe I'm just desensitised to Galloway after hearing so much worse from him, but I don't see him saying that as particularly problematic.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not so sure, I don't think it's that bad for Galloway to say hey you claim to believe all these things and yet you go against all that because of a system of patronage and according to your system of belief if you continue to behave like that then you are going to hell. Maybe I'm just desensitised to Galloway after hearing so much worse from him, but I don't see him saying that as particularly problematic.

Well what follows after, what is the next thing we appeal to people to do on a religious basis? There simply was no need for religion to be brought into an argument that has been won politically already. And, he and them (RESPECT et al) have helped normalise this abhorrent way of carrying on. We've almost forget that we didn't do it like this before.

 

[Fedayn]

Utter garbage, rubbish and trash.

A review of your latest book?

 

[sihhi]

I'm not so sure, I don't think it's that bad for Galloway to say hey you claim to believe all these things and yet you go against all that because of a system of patronage and according to your system of belief if you continue to behave like that then you are going to hell. Maybe I'm just desensitised to Galloway after hearing so much worse from him, but I don't see him saying that as particularly problematic.

Many of those from Muslim backgrounds do demand the removal of all religio-sing politics, unless religion is removed from public society women and working-class elements within those communities will continue to suffer.
Religion should be a private matter - not one that takes over the public sphere.
The conclusion is that Hindus should vote Tory because they support close ties with the BJP and successfully fought the ban on Governor Modi.
The conclusion is that Christians should act politically in a way that asserts their public Christian interests ie the Christian Party or maybe the EDL.

 

[CharlieChaplin]

What bullshit. Christopher Hitchens adopted wholesale both EDL-style Islamophobia

What a ridiculous statement to make.

 

[butchersapron]

What a ridiculous statement to make.

I suggest that you read the later supported post from J and then respond. In a bit more detail than that as well.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Just looking at Namazee's blog, they say there it's a companion to the one exposing the far right as enemies not allies - but I still think the centre/neocon/neoliberal right needs 'exposing' too.

Indeed. Supporting Islamists in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States etc.

 

[J Ed]

Indeed. Supporting Islamists in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States etc.

Much more extreme Islamism than the Iranian state too. The lived experience of women in Iran obviously is awful, but it's miles better than Saudi Arabia.

 

[Ole]

Not to be outdone Newman followed up with what turned out to be a defence of Qaradawi:

http://socialistunity.com/on-not-fearing-muslims/

I can't believe my eyes here.. that made my fucking stomach turn. A defence of this racist animal?

Qaradawi: Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the [Jews] people who would punish them for their corruption. The last punishment was carried out by Hitler. By means of all the things he did to them – even though they exaggerated this issue – he managed to put them in their place. This was divine punishment for them. Allah willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers.

 

[treelover]

Re: Newmans massive missive, you can see what his favourite issue is...

 

[butchersapron]

Anything that contains the phrase:

As Bob Pitt has previously explained

is not off to a good start.

 

[J Ed]

Anything that contains the phrase:



is not off to a good start.

Anne-Marie Waters is an anti-Muslim campaigner but Qaradawi is just a political conservative...

Wow. Andy Newman is obviously a complete idiot.