Possible vaccines/treatment(s) for Coronavirus

[mwgdrwg]

Someone I know has had the first Pfizer dose. She said she felt a bit rough for one night and had to get up in the night for a shower as she was sweating a lot.

Really glad she has had it and has some protection at least.

 

[teuchter]

From the preprint linked in post #742.

View attachment 247721

Thanks.

• MenACWY seems to refer to some other vaccine... were they giving the control group a different vaccine rather than placebo?
• Do I understand correctly that the left hand graph somehow shows the combined results of some people getting full-dose/full-dose, and others half-dose/full-dose?
• Has any further info emerged since then about whether the half-dose/full-dose regime does work better?
• Why do they have an "exclsuion period" when the Pfizer one doesn't?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Moderna vaccine has been approved for use in the UK.

We've ordered 17 million doses, but IIRC delivery isn't expected until Mar./Apr. time.

 

[belboid]

Thanks.

• MenACWY seems to refer to some other vaccine... were they giving the control group a different vaccine rather than placebo?

It’s a meningitis vaccine, it has similar immediate side effects that don’t occur with a purely saline injection and so doesn’t risk giving the game away immediately.

 

[elbows]

Sigh. We are literally going to have to spend all year explaining to people who don't like thinking about numbers that 5% of a big number can still be quite a big number aren't we? And that the 95% figure is for people not getting it seriously. This is going to get very tedious.

Incidentally that reporting by the BBC is fucking irresponsible. They need to explain that plenty of vaccinated people will get the virus, it's not something to be 'angry' about, and they need to explain that until we have BOTH high vaccine uptake AND low prevalence in the population, people should not be changing their behaviour.

The story came out late at night and I thought it might end up being reframed and with a different headline later. That has indeed happened. The new headline is 'Care needed' after getting Covid vaccine.

Publicising these sorts of stories is one way to get the message through to people.

The changes the BBC made to the article today are a mixed bag. I saved the original and here are some quotes from the first version that I dont think are present in the current version:

Bethan believes frontline NHS workers should be prioritised for the second dose.
"It's controversial to say it, but they're prioritising the wrong group of people," she said.
"I feel strongly that frontline workers need to be prioritised because it's highly contagious and we don't know what we're bringing home to our families.
"I'm really nervous about going back to the ward. We don't know where we stand with the second vaccine and how much protection it provides."
She said she feels let down by her managers at work and said morale amongst staff is at an "all-time low".
"I've seen how badly this has affected my family. I want people to see what we're being exposed to and how unprotected we are," she said.
"I feel my family have been let down. There should be a rollout for frontline workers' families, especially those with children.
"Nurses are on their knees. A lot... feel unprotected and unsupported.
"We're well aware that this is what we signed up for, but it's heartbreaking. I think a lot of them will leave - I'm one of them."

Another opportunity to play spot the difference comes from this bit:

Current version:

The British Medical Association Cymru Wales has previously expressed concern about the length of time between doses.
Doctors' union, BMA Cymru Wales, said there was a lack of evidence to support waiting 12 weeks for a second vaccine dose.
Chair Dr David Bailey said: "Our families don't choose to be exposed to a much higher dose of Covid, so we feel it's right that we should be protecting health workers and their families."

Original version:

Doctors' union, BMA Cymru Wales, said there was a lack of evidence to support waiting 12 weeks for a second vaccine dose.
Chair Dr David Bailey, said the plan was "putting people at risk".
"We're also very concerned the Pfizer vaccine has poor data for the first vaccine preventing transmission," he said.
"Our families don't choose to be exposed to a much higher dose of Covid, so we feel it's right that we should be protecting health workers and their families."

 

[elbows]

As for my opinion of what she said, based on those quotes that are no longer present in the BBC article, I think it is a quite understandable position, albeit one that is far too narrow, insensitive and partially infuriating. Staff morale matters, so I want to hear all about it, even when the factors involved are far too narrow to be used to inform decision making on their own. Despite all the furore over PPE in the first wave, the subject of health workers being left inexcusably exposed was not focussed on as much as it could have been in the first wave or this subsequent wave. Vaccine approval and availability timetable meant vaccinations could not be used to remove most of the risk to such workers when the second wave arrived, but if I were a health worker I would be very upset that levels of infection in the nation as a whole were allowed to reach high levels that put so many at risk again. Its just I wouldnt be so narrow about it, and find it distasteful to talk about vaccination priorities in such a singleminded manner.

 

[felixthecat]

Well that moved quickly. Im redeployed to the vaccination programme from Monday

 

[platinumsage]

Unlike the other vaccines they bought, they acquired the Moderna one very late, after the trial results, and we consequently won’t get any until April. The US is already giving it to people.

Now is when we need it, when the rollout rate is limited by the available vaccine and not by the staff to administer it etc. By April we‘ll have lots of vaccines to go around so it’ll be of limited utility, plus thousands more people will be dead by then.

I wish to retract this post after discovering the US had exclusive purchase rights for the first 20 million doses due to the money they invested in it, and that further doses wouldn’t be available to other countries until March/April in any event.

 

[2hats]

Not entirely unsurprisingly, an intranasal version of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine (ChAdOx1 nCoV-19) has been found to reduce viral shedding in animal models (hamsters and rhesus macaques) unlike the intramuscular version (AZD1222) suggesting it would be an advantageous method for reducing transmission as well as disease.

Intranasal ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/AZD1222 vaccination reduces shedding of SARS-CoV-2 D614G in rhesus macaques

Intramuscular vaccination with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/AZD1222 protected rhesus macaques against pneumonia but did not reduce shedding of SARS-CoV-2. Here we investigate whether intranasally administered ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 reduces shedding, using a SARS-CoV-2 virus with the D614G mutation in the spike...

www.biorxiv.org

DOI: 10.1101/2021.01.09.426058

 

[cupid_stunt]

UK trial of an inhalable drug:

Experimental lung drug to be tested on UK coronavirus patients

Biotech firm Synairgen will trial SNG001 inhaler on 100 people in race to find cure

www.theguardian.com

You posted this back in March 2020, seems to have taken a long time, but finally it's in phase three trials.

The UK has launched large-scale trials of a new drug that could cut the risk of Covid patients developing severe illness by as much as 80 per cent.

Thirty-four-year-old Alexandra Constantin became the first patient to receive the drug, produced by London-listed biotech firm Synairgen, after receiving the dose at Hull Royal Infirmary yesterday afternoon.

The phase three trials will see Synairgen’s inhaled formulation of a protein called interferon beta administered to more than 600 Covid patients who require supplemental oxygen.

It is thought that the naturally-occurring protein, which is widely used in the treatment of multiple sclerosis , will stimulate the immune system and prime cells to fight off coronavirus.

Early findings suggested the treatment reduced the risk of a Covid-19 patient in hospital developing severe disease, such as requiring ventilation, by almost 80 per cent.

Results from phase two trials of around 100 patients last year also indicated “very significant” reductions in breathlessness, while the average time patients spent in hospital was reduced by a third — down from an average of nine days to six days.

Covid: UK trials new drug that could cut risk of severe illness by 80 per cent - CityAM

The UK has launched large-scale trials of a new drug that could cut the risk of Covid patients developing severe illness by as much as 80 per cent. Thirty-four-year-old Alexandra Constantin became the first patient to receive the drug, produced by London-listed biotech firm Synairgen, after...

www.cityam.com

 

[Supine]

Leak of the Pfizer regulatory documents. If it's naughty to post this I will delete. Serious tech level info on the vaccine manufacturing and regulatory submission.

PDF.js viewer

wixlabs-pdf-dev.appspot.com

 

[prunus]

Leak of the Pfizer regulatory documents. If it's naughty to post this I will delete. Serious tech level info on the vaccine manufacturing and regulatory submission.

Fascinating, thanks.

 

[2hats]

Some evidence that NSAIDs may modulate antibody response to both SARS-CoV-2 infection and SARS-CoV-2 vaccinations. The timing of use of NSAIDs during infection may need to be carefully considered. The impact of NSAIDs on the breadth, potency, and durability of infection and vaccine immune responses warrants further investigation.

Nonsteroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs Dampen the Cytokine and Antibody Response to SARS-CoV-2 Infection

Identifying drugs that regulate severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection and its symptoms has been a pressing area of investigation during the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), which are frequently used for...

jvi.asm.org

DOI: 10.1128/JVI.00014-21

 

[teuchter]

UK now seems to have given about 5% of the population its first dose, which I'd say is not bad going.

 

[elbows]

Cross convalescent plasma off the list.

Covid: 'Convalescent plasma no benefit to hospital patients'

Donations of plasma from people who have recovered from the virus have been suspended.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Cloo]

Oh well, they can't all work

 

[Pickman's model]

UK now seems to have given about 5% of the population its first dose, which I'd say is not bad going.

View attachment 249059

the zionists not doing palestine, btw

 

[cupid_stunt]

Cross convalescent plasma off the list.

Covid: 'Convalescent plasma no benefit to hospital patients'

Donations of plasma from people who have recovered from the virus have been suspended.

www.bbc.co.uk

That's sad, it sounded so promising.

 

[elbows]

That's sad, it sounded so promising.

Even worse if this treatment does turn out to have had a role in some of the mutations.

 

[weltweit]

I wanted one of the journalists at today's press conference to ask: and what about second doses?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I wanted one of the journalists at today's press conference to ask: and what about second doses?

Don't see the point tbh. They've made their rationale for delaying them clear enough. Whether they turn out to be right or not the question wouldn't bring out anything new at this point.

 

[weltweit]

Don't see the point tbh. They've made their rationale for delaying them clear enough. Whether they turn out to be right or not the question wouldn't bring out anything new at this point.

I agree with inoculate as many people with the first dose as possible, but I also think you should do the second dose as the 12 weeks comes along. But it sounds like they are so keen on getting everyone a first dose that they seem to have forgotten they ought to budget time to do the second doses of those that have gone before to provide the full protection that the vaccine offers.

 

[Cloo]

Telegraph claiming 70-somethings will be getting their dates for vaccination soon, so fingers crossed for both our sets of parents... although gsv's parents are now pretty sure they had it last month after his sister (who is in a bubble with them) tested positive after they'd felt pretty awful for a fortnight and everyone but them thought it was COVID. But at least we know they are safe-ish until they can be fully vaccinated by the sound of things.

 

[wtfftw]

I've not been following this thread. Not after the first ten pages so apologies if this is already here.

Popped up in my Facebook feed. https://gb.c19proventstudy.com/?utm...gn=23846221664120534&atid=PROUKENMF0001948#!/
What is the PROVENT Study?
The PROVENT Study will research a combination of 2 investigational monoclonal antibodies for the prevention of COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2). The study is looking at how well the investigational antibodies work and how safe they are.

 

[scifisam]

I wanted one of the journalists at today's press conference to ask: and what about second doses?

Very few people would be due them yet anyway.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

It’s not clear whether other countries are seeing this with the Pfizer vaccine but it looks as if a problem has popped up in Norway.

Although 29 deaths amongst so many million world wide doses doesn’t look bad statistically, it’s something to be thinking of when weighing up the benefits for a particular elderly person with limited expectation of life span.

Norway Raises Concern Over Vaccine Jabs for the Elderly

Norway expressed increasing concern about the safety of the Pfizer Inc. vaccine on elderly people with serious underlying health conditions after raising an estimate of the number who died after receiving inoculations to 29.

www.bloomberg.com

Covid-19: Norway investigates 23 deaths in frail elderly patients after vaccination

Doctors in Norway have been told to conduct more thorough evaluations of very frail elderly patients in line to receive the Pfizer BioNTec vaccine against covid-19, following the deaths of 23 patients shortly after receiving the vaccine. “It may be a coincidence, but we aren’t sure,” Steinar...

www.bmj.com

NB
the BMJ report is older, and the number of dead has since risen to 29. I’m adding in the link just because it’s the BMJ.

 

[komodo]

Friend’s 80 plus Mum with some health issues is getting her 2nd dose this week - just the month interval.

My 93 year old Dad got his first dose today in his care home.

 

[May Kasahara]

Spoke to my 70something dad today - both he and my nan (90) have had their first jabs

 

[Poot]

I need advice.

I've signed up to be a guinea pig for new vaccine out but I can back out. I've been sent the info and there is a 50% chance that I'd get a placebo.

The placebo is worrying me. The study is 2 years and 3 months long - so potentially that amount of time with no vaccine for me.

I know there are lots of pointy heads here who can tell me in a scientific way whether it's worth the risk (i'd really like to help but I'd also really like not to end up with long covid or worse.) I am generally fit and well.

 

[LDC]

I need advice.

I've signed up to be a guinea pig for new vaccine out but I can back out. I've been sent the info and there is a 50% chance that I'd get a placebo.

The placebo is worrying me. The study is 2 years and 3 months long - so potentially that amount of time with no vaccine for me.

I know there are lots of pointy heads here who can tell me in a scientific way whether it's worth the risk (i'd really like to help but I'd also really like not to end up with long covid or worse.) I am generally fit and well.

Why is the placebo worrying you Poot ?

I did a trial that sounds like it might be the same one. When I was offered a vaccine (as a healthcare worker) I contacted the trial and they unblinded me and I found out I had the placebo (water) so then went and got the Pfizer vaccine. The advice if I had had the test vaccine would have been to not get the Pfizer on top of that.

So some of it depends on your age and risk and when you might get offered a 'real vaccine' outside the trial. Like if you're 65 and might get the vaccine soon then maybe it's not worth doing it unless you'll refuse the vaccine and stay with the trial. But if you're 35 and are unlikely to get the vaccine any time soon then maybe it's worth going anyway. But also you can talk to the trial team and they might have some useful advice for you.

Trials will also need some people to not get the vaccine and finish the trial, but they get useful data even if you do it for six months or so.